There are a lot of rose-scented soaps. I'm not a rose soap afficionado, so I can't name a ton off the top of my head, but we have had long threads about rose scented soaps......Trumper's makes one, Klar Kabinett is rose scented; Mystic Water makes Rosalimone, which is a lovely rose/lemon accord which smells better to me than any straight rose scent I've used; MdC has a rose soap; pretty sure Soap Commander makes one, as well. And there are more. If you are interested, do a search.
Why are soaps more popular than creams here?
- Thread starter FireDragon76
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I don't think this is true. Stone Cottage Soap Works I believe makes a cream. I know that Gentleman's Quarter is now in beta-testing with a true artisan cream. Al's made a really nice cream for many years, but I don't know if he is still in business; same goes for Em's Place.
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- #63
Mostly I like rose because it's actually good for skin, but it's also a genuinely luxurious scent.
Trumper's Rose has a poor reputation on B&B. It doesn't lather that well. Soap Commander no longer makes a rose scent.
If I really wanted rose shave soap, probably the way to go would be to get VDH Unscented and just add some rose absolute. As it is, there are some very good rose shave creams out there, such as Biofresh or Taylor's.
The Rosalimone from Michelle at Mystic Water is one of the most beautiful scents in shaving, imo.
The only rose item I have is T&H. The lather is ok, can't comment on the rose scent since I dislike rose in general.
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- #66
Creams are more perfunctory or less of a bother. In my experience, the lather is not necessarily any different.
There are shave creams that are soap based and there are shaving rounds that are humectant based, so it really comes down to whether you appreciate the convenience of shaving creams or not.
I'll just say that I know they made a label. Whether they made the cream that goes into the jar with the label is another question. Even most of the British shaving houses don't make their own creams, they contract it out to an industrial operation like Creighton.
And the artisans that get brought up are kind of outliers. (I probably should have said "not many artisan creams" instead). Very few of their products are carried outside of their own stores, and it takes a bit of legwork to even figure out they exist. They really aren't part of the conversation in the same way that soap brands like Declaration Grooming, Barrister & Mann, or Stirling are. The only creams that really play in that space are the longstanding ones like TOBS or Proraso.
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- #68
Yes, Em's does make some creams (I believe in pump bottles).
Em's has been around quite a while, as well, at least the better part of a decade or so.
How exactly is that a problem? The whole point of artisan products is a more direct relationship with the craftspeople that make the consumer items we purchase.
Stirling and Barrister & Mann are relative latecomers to artisan shave products and toiletries. Mama Bear's or Em's Place were around long before them. Stirling and B&M are trendy because they are going after a broader market, but businesses like Em's Place cater to a more discerning clientele.
Actually, I've found a good artisan maker that makes both soaps and creams. Moon Soaps. The only have four offerings, with three of them soaps and one cream. But they all sound really nice. I have a full tub of their Old School soap and they sent me a sample of their Amaretto cream. I have yet to try it but can't wait to finish another sample so I can use the container. If the cream works as well as the soap, I may be buying more tubs.
It's not a "problem" per se. But wet shaving has gone from "effectively dead" to "actually getting a little popular" and a decent part of it is artisan resellers like IB, WCS, or Maggards. If there's little or no artisan cream product being pushed at the places people go to buy shaving supplies, then it is almost certainly going to be less popular, which was the original point of the post.
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- #71
Most of those didn't even exist when the shaving boom was just getting started back in the early to mid 2000's. They are latecomers.
A great deal of the interest in traditional shaving was down to the growth in Youtube and people like Mantic59 uploading informational videos. We bought alot of our supplies locally at the time, not off the internet. Most of my early shave brushes were all bought at local stores. And we weren't so much interested in hobbyist collecting or artisan products (that came later) as much as we were seeking a better way to just shave.
If you can't get a good shave with canned goo, you can't shave. Period. I'm a firm NONbeliever in the sensitive skin mantra.
I beg to differ! Shaving Creams are a category of soap or cosmetic products that can be easily researched and have quite a large number of potential formulations in old and new soap and cosmetic formulation books. Many of these products have a very similar ingredient list and often in the same order. Here is an example of a typical British shaving cream: Water, Stearic Acid, Myristic Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Coconut Acid, Glycerin, Triethanolamine, Sodium Hydroxide, Fragrance and also includes a preservative. Many of these ingredients lists have the same exact ingredients in the same formula and many of the sample formulations from the books that are available have the same ingredients in the same order! This kind of product can be made easily in any batch size and basically using a double boiler of any size. No "industrial setup" is needed and the fatty acids used are easily available to artisans and, of course, large companies.
However, shaving soaps tend to be much more difficult to make. Reviewing ingredients lists of such products you will find many differences as you will also find in researching soap and cosmetic formulations for shaving soap. Most of what is available in old books have quite a few differences in ingredients and percentages and most of the old formulas require the use of "crutchers" which are large industrial pieces of equipment. Any soapmaker can pursue making a shaving soap but many of the ingredients lists prove that they don't have knowledge of what works the best in a shaving soap and what should be avoided. If you see "Castor Oil" in a formula, there is a good chance that it will not give you the kind of "foam" that is required and desired for shaving because Castor Oil contains Ricinoleic acid at anywhere from 85%-95% of the oil and creates lather but lather that consists of LARGE bubbles, not the FOAM that is needed! It also creates a soap that is quite water soluble which would not be ideal for a soap like this. It will be gone in no time! It also contains things like "Bentonite or Kaolin clay" added for "slip" but actually dulls your blade. Some may be successful in making a shaving soap but the chance is much more slim than for making a successful shaving cream, in my opinion.
When all these products were created, they were bought, used and then purchased again. People did not buy several of each and expect them to last for years they just used one at a time. Soap is a product that "cures" with time whether it is a soap-based shaving cream or a soap-based shaving soap so that is to be expected. Adding "chemicals" may lengthen the "shelf life" of a product like this but is that really what you want to do? Whether shaving soap is better or shaving cream is better is up to the user and what they prefer and what works best for them.
- Thread starter
- #74
I have always wondered who got the idea to shave with kaolinite clay. It seems like somebody didn't think that one through very well.
The British creams mostly have a similar ingredient list because most of them are outsourced to industrial operations, with the companies selling them mainly doing the fragrance side of things.
But this just leads us around to the same point: If creams are as easy to make as soaps, why aren't there more creams? The only European "artisan" cream maker I can think of that actually makes their own product is Castle Forbes. Captain's Choice sells a set of creams in the US, but I don't know if they "make" anything beyond the fragrance and the label. There's a few here and there selling on eBay or Etsy, but again, do they make the product or do they package it? Granted, there's soap lines that do the same thing (Ariana & Evans comes to mind), but by and large, if they don't make it, they'll be happy to tell you who did.
I'm a big fan of creams myself (I used Cyril R. Salter Indian Sandalwood this morning), but by and large soaps are where the market is, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Yes, Creightons does do manufacturing for other companies but don't assume that they are doing the same formulation for everyone! Some of these companies take their formulas and sub-contract them out to companies like Creightons and others make them, themselves. Anyone who is making an artisan shaving cream (I wouldn't think of Castle Forbes as an artisan cream) doesn't always do the research, as I was trying to point out, to be able to create a product that meets with industry standards and often use the approach of a soapmaker with "recipes" rather than a cosmetic manufacturer with "formulas" and often uses ingredients that don't necessarily work well for this kind of product as well as the use of certain atypical ingredients. This is why it is so important to do the research. As far as the Ebay and Etsy sellers, the best thing to do is to look at their ingredients list and compare them to industry standards and that will give you an answer and I frankly doubt that any of them could meet the product amount requirements that any of these manufacturers would have to do business with them and if they have that kind of money then they wouldn't be selling it on Ebay or Etsy. Unless you have figures from all manufacturers who make these kind of products, you'll never know which is actually purchased the most. Going by the activity of one (or more) message boards may provide some direction but it doesn't guarantee that what you see there applies to all products and all customers, everywhere!
I agree with the above statement. Soaps have always had more interest from members here, with about twice as many postings than creams.
I like to use both creams and soaps but after collecting too many scents over the years, soap is a better choice for longer shelf life. A tube of cream tends to dry out if it sits in storage for a few years, especially something like a Dettol or India made cream that is just past its expiration date. I have a 10+ year old D.R. Harris cream that has dried somewhat but still performs well.
More artisans makes soaps vs creams.
