I remember years ago we did a 1k to thuri challenge here. I was expecting it to take forever but IIRC mine only took 10-15 minutes and yours was much quicker.
Who’s going from bevel set straight to your finishing stone?
- Thread starter lightfoot
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I like the bevel, edge, and longer term edge of including the additional midrange stones personally. I “can” do a lot off of a single stone or just a couple. But I find better quality when maxing a good group of mid ranges.
I agree and take a que from automotive paint prep sanding. For ultimate finishes they go to extreme in sanding with multiple small grit jumps. But they also have other goals, such as small uniform scratches to hold the next layer of paint. You can’t argue with the results though.
Once the deep stria is removed, I try to get to near mirror as quickly as possible, 6-12k then go to natural finisher. At 8k your edge is dead straight, and your bevels should be fairly polished and edge sharp.
You can easily polish for comfort with film, paste or high grit natural. From a near mirror bevel all the work below does not matter much. So, I recommend spending your money and time on a finisher.
Once the deep stria is removed, I try to get to near mirror as quickly as possible, 6-12k then go to natural finisher. At 8k your edge is dead straight, and your bevels should be fairly polished and edge sharp.
You can easily polish for comfort with film, paste or high grit natural. From a near mirror bevel all the work below does not matter much. So, I recommend spending your money and time on a finisher.
Yes, that is the key. How we all get there is not so important, but doing that well is what gives a really nice edge. They show up later if you do t take them out properly.
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Another question to come to mind is this:
Does including or excluding hones in the midrange have any effect on edge strength and “potential” longevity?
Does including or excluding hones in the midrange have any effect on edge strength and “potential” longevity?
most razors go shapton 6k glass hc to jnat for finish. Will reset any bevels I need to on the 2k. My mk4 took some damage on the tip when I was in a rush to shave. Might take it from 2k to my karasu to see how it goes
I have a super fast jnat I use after a 1k. This stone obliterates 1k scratches very quickly. Minute or so. You can finish on it but its a tad soft to get what I typically prefer to shave with. And then many times I just dump the slurry from that stone onto my finisher which goes right to polish. The whole process after bevel set is maybe 3 minutes. That's fast enough for me. Alex Gilmore has posted many times doing the 1k to finisher routine with diamond plate slurry. The microbevel can get you there faster. Although my honing time is fast enough as it is. Follow.results! Whatever works, works.
As long as you are able to replace the scratches with the last stone i am not able to see why the mid range stone should have any effect on the longevity. What you finish with is in my opinion a different story.
This is probably a little off topic, but i do think you can have overworked steel for different reasons. Getting back to "good" steel will probably have an effect on the longevity of the edge, if you disregard the abuse the edge is put through in use and stropping.
I do not quite understand how these JNAT's cut with slurry. You get this hammer/shock peening effect, in addition to the cutting action of the protruding grit in the stone. Hammer peeing a weld will increase the fatigue life at the toe of a weld by a good margin. The peening leaves compressive stress in the edge, and maybe some strain hardening, but i am not to convinced about that. A crack needs tensile stress to grow.
This might be part of the reason a JNAT edge can be more durable then one finished on a synthetic stone. It can also indicate why a full nagura pregression might leave a different edge then a hybrid one.
If anyone is interested, this could probably be covered in a different thread more in dept.
In my experience, if i use a DMT anywhere in the progression (i stopped dong that
)i get an edge that is less durable. The diamond create damage to the steel deeper under the scratch. The edge can end up chipping during finishing, or with use, because of the deeper damage left at some stage. Also why using a high grit synthetic slurry seems to make more problems then is solves is something i struggle to understand. This will definitely affect the feel and durability of the edge.
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I really like that "How we all get there is not so important, but doing that well is..." this is sage wisdom right here.
“Does including or excluding hones in the midrange have any effect on edge strength and “potential” longevity?”
No, I don’t think so. The most important of the mid-range stones is the first stone after the bevel setter. It removes or should remove ALL the deep stria, after that it is just polishing.
It is kind of like the argument that one, 1k stone is “better” than another, they all produce 1k stria, and once you remove all the 1k stria, does a high dollar 1k stone really matter? I get that they may feel different, but performance wise…
2k is aggressive and leaves a much shallower, easier to polish stria, even though it is just a 1k jump. Couple years ago, I used a Green Brick with impressive results. You can easily go 2k to finisher. For most honing, with out deep damage a 2k is a good solution. For a while I bevel set on a 4k it is not that much slower.
Keep in mind that edge impact damage, (hit the faucet) is very different from a micro chip from a weak, thin edge or scratch that chip the edge or a regular honing. Repair is different from honing, first you repair, reprofile an edge, heel or as needed, then you hone. Yes, one can hone out edge damage, but it is not always the best repair.
Impact damage goes much deeper into the steel, it can be deeper than the bottom of the chip. If you do not remove all the damage steel, it can micro chip and it might chip after several shaves as the damaged steel is stressed by stropping. Here a wider progression may help make a stronger bevel and edge if one wants to be conservative in steel removal.
Diamonds, can cause impact damage, to a lesser, but still damaging degree. I use diamonds for repair work and to hone tools.
No, I don’t think so. The most important of the mid-range stones is the first stone after the bevel setter. It removes or should remove ALL the deep stria, after that it is just polishing.
It is kind of like the argument that one, 1k stone is “better” than another, they all produce 1k stria, and once you remove all the 1k stria, does a high dollar 1k stone really matter? I get that they may feel different, but performance wise…
2k is aggressive and leaves a much shallower, easier to polish stria, even though it is just a 1k jump. Couple years ago, I used a Green Brick with impressive results. You can easily go 2k to finisher. For most honing, with out deep damage a 2k is a good solution. For a while I bevel set on a 4k it is not that much slower.
Keep in mind that edge impact damage, (hit the faucet) is very different from a micro chip from a weak, thin edge or scratch that chip the edge or a regular honing. Repair is different from honing, first you repair, reprofile an edge, heel or as needed, then you hone. Yes, one can hone out edge damage, but it is not always the best repair.
Impact damage goes much deeper into the steel, it can be deeper than the bottom of the chip. If you do not remove all the damage steel, it can micro chip and it might chip after several shaves as the damaged steel is stressed by stropping. Here a wider progression may help make a stronger bevel and edge if one wants to be conservative in steel removal.
Diamonds, can cause impact damage, to a lesser, but still damaging degree. I use diamonds for repair work and to hone tools.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
I’ve posted this image and narrative before, my 1-stone honing. The Gold Dollar was glassed and incapable of cutting, but of course the bevel itself was well formed. The stone is exceptionally fast (a LOT of grit) and it’s also very fine. The stone is capable of light bevel work but usually I like to preserve a fine finisher for finishing, there’s no point in putting excessive wear on a valuable finisher just because you can.
The bevel was re-set using moderate diamond plate slurry, followed by a fresh thin diamond plate slurry. After testing for bevel set, a tomo nagura slurry was generated and diluted to almost water. The edge was no different than any other.
The bevel was re-set using moderate diamond plate slurry, followed by a fresh thin diamond plate slurry. After testing for bevel set, a tomo nagura slurry was generated and diluted to almost water. The edge was no different than any other.
There is too much fun to have so I don't limit myself to one stone. Most recent:
1k Chosera, then:
Soft Maruka Suita
Soft unknown Asagi
Medium soft Nakayama Ikimurasaki
Medium Hard unknown Kiita
Hard unknown Asagi
Close to a mirror polish and the edge passed hht very well. Not Feather level but approaching it.
1k Chosera, then:
Soft Maruka Suita
Soft unknown Asagi
Medium soft Nakayama Ikimurasaki
Medium Hard unknown Kiita
Hard unknown Asagi
Close to a mirror polish and the edge passed hht very well. Not Feather level but approaching it.
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