Who Here Shaves Off Diamond Paste?

[Twelvefret]

That's the opposite of what he said. "If you’re a musician, that’s not quite the same thing as a luthier. You may not care how the guitar or mandolin are made, but luthiers do. "

Shavers care about how an edge is produced and to get a great shave, a practical understanding of how to achieve a shave ready edge is imperative.

 

[Steve56]

Well we’re going to have to agree to disagree on what my post meant Chuck, my intent was to say what @kohalajohn interpreted it as. Apologies if my choice of words was bad.

 

[Steve56]

@kohalajohn you might want to give Alex Gilmore a shout. He usually has a few hard grey stones that work like you’re describing, at competitive prices. If you’re stateside or don’t mind paying the freight, I can loan one to you to try out.

 

[Twelvefret]

Well we’re going to have to agree to disagree on what my post meant Chuck, my intent was to say what @kohalajohn interpreted it as. Apologies if my choice of words was bad.

Okay, no problem.

 

[Namkcakram]

Lol happy and satisfied with the convex ark here too. But I like honing on my jnat, it gives you a feedback you don’t get from a ark.

Mmmm its the same satisfaction as slowly melting dark chocolate in your mouth. Films get some fantastic results, especially with Picopaper(R) but there’s just no soul in disposable honing media. The subtle imperfections of stones bring a whole new zen to honing. I think even if I were doing pasted strop edges I’d still have to start them off a Coti/Ark/JNAT just to keep my sanity.

I’m not a honer believe it or not, I’m a daily shaver for work. 90% of my honing is in the garage on woodworking tools, my straights go about 20-40 shaves between honing.

 

[kohalajohn]

@kohalajohn you might want to give Alex Gilmore a shout. He usually has a few hard grey stones that work like you’re describing, at competitive prices. If you’re stateside or don’t mind paying the freight, I can loan one to you to try out.

Thanks Steve. I'll certainly consider that.

 

[PanL]

I am rediscovering diamond paste. It appears I was using too much paste previously, and now I am getting the full benefit. I normally do 100 laps to prepare and 60 before a previous razor use.

After using the M. Jung all last week with a 200k edge, I opted for the 6/8 Geneva to lap last night for todays shave. Amazing results on both.

While I know @steveclarkus and I use diamond, I am curious if others opt for this medium.

Great thread and discussion.
As a newbie, I had hesitated earlier as Slash mentioned the edges to be very sharp and unforgiving if one lacked technique. Having shaved with feather ss comfortably now, I am definitely going to try.
We have bunnings store with the balsa wood and came across these pastes on the bay..
Diamond Paste Finish Set of 3 25% (M) Concentration 50,000 100,000 200,000 Grit | eBay
Are these the right ones?
And how often do you lap the balsa flat, I don't plan to fix it on any glass or tile.
Regards

 

[kohalajohn]

How often you lap the balsa and reapply the diamond, depends on how often you are stropping on the balsa.

Normally, every three months. Whether you have thick balsa that has no backing, or thin balsa that has backing, doesn't make any different to that.

Eventually you'll be looking at acrylic backing though. Even if you start off with thick balsa, eventually lapping will leave you with thin balsa and a rigid backing plate will be welcome.

 

[Twelvefret]

Great thread and discussion.
As a newbie, I had hesitated earlier as Slash mentioned the edges to be very sharp and unforgiving if one lacked technique. Having shaved with feather ss comfortably now, I am definitely going to try.
We have bunnings store with the balsa wood and came across these pastes on the bay..
Diamond Paste Finish Set of 3 25% (M) Concentration 50,000 100,000 200,000 Grit | eBay
Are these the right ones?
And how often do you lap the balsa flat, I don't plan to fix it on any glass or tile.
Regards

That’s a good price. I only use the 200k I source from Amazon. I don’t use a substrate either.

My razors are near Artist Club shape . Please report back your experiences.

 

[Twelvefret]

How often you lap the balsa and reapply the diamond, depends on how often you are stropping on the balsa.

Normally, every three months. Whether you have thick balsa that has no backing, or thin balsa that has backing, doesn't make any different to that.

Eventually you'll be looking at acrylic backing though. Even if you start off with thick balsa, eventually lapping will leave you with thin balsa and a rigid backing plate will be welcome.

My 1” thick balsa cost $5. I don’t like the added weight. I’ll just buy another piece.

 

[PanL]

Pastes are on the way from US - picked the 50% concentration.
To start with, I will get the balsa wood and see how it goes. Might attach to hard surface later. Thanks for the tips gentlemen.

 

[kohalajohn]

I use diamond balsa. I use an 12x3 by one inch thick acrylic backing plate. I don't use it after every shave. Rather I shave for a week and on saturday morning give the razor the .5, .25, .1u treatment.

Most of the time though I use a black translucent ark.

 

[kohalajohn]

Exactly. @kohalajohn are you in Hawaii? Takeshi Aoki at AFramesTokyo can fix you up without large shipping costs.

I see from your profile that you were born in Scotland. Tom, @rideon66 has an oilstone or two from Fiddich River that seem to be very nice. We did an edge exchange and I was impressed with that edge. They’re hard to find but there’s a seller on eBay that throws one up once in a while. I’d like to try one myself.

Thanks, yes I'll look into it.

Born in scotland but now live in Vancouver Canada and the big island, hawaii.

 

[kohalajohn]

Twelve, you asked back in the thread, whether I had tried improving a convex black edge with .1u diamond.

Yes I have, but you only do it once. Then you don't need to use the ark any more. It's now a diamond edge.

It was a new dovo bismarck. It had been an ark razor. I put it through .5, .25, .1.

I have just changed how I do my rotation, specifically to compare arks to balsa. I have four good razors set aside for this. Three are maintained on convex black translucent arks. One of these ark razors is a new dovo with a bismarck blade. The fourth is maintained on balsa and it also is a new dovo bismarck. This way I am comparing the same blade.

It's too early for me to tell a difference yet. I can't tell much of a different between the ark bismark and the balsa bismark. They're both good.

Over the weeks and months I'll get a better idea.

And all get attention only on saturday morning.

On the first week, Monday to Friday I'll strop and shave on razor #1. Saturday morning if was an ark, it's honed on the ark.

If it was the balsa razor, it gets .5u, .25u, .1u. I believe this is similar to doing .1u after every single shave.

I think over time the two bismarcks will diverge. Or maybe not. I'll see.

 

[Twelvefret]

Twelve, you asked back in the thread, whether I had tried improving a convex black edge with .1u diamond.

Yes I have, but you only do it once. Then you don't need to use the ark any more. It's now a diamond edge.

It was a new dovo bismarck. It had been an ark razor. I put it through .5, .25, .1.

I have just changed how I do my rotation, specifically to compare arks to balsa. I have four good razors set aside for this. Three are maintained on convex black translucent arks. One of these ark razors is a new dovo with a bismarck blade. The fourth is maintained on balsa and it also is a new dovo bismarck. This way I am comparing the same blade.

It's too early for me to tell a difference yet. I can't tell much of a different between the ark bismark and the balsa bismark. They're both good.

Over the weeks and months I'll get a better idea.

And all get attention only on saturday morning.

On the first week, Monday to Friday I'll strop and shave on razor #1. Saturday morning if was an ark, it's honed on the ark.

If it was the balsa razor, it gets .5u, .25u, .1u. I believe this is similar to doing .1u after every single shave.

I think over time the two bismarcks will diverge. Or maybe not. I'll see.

I do understand when folks say that after diamond it’s no long a this or that stone. I’ve done it myself. However, I also see a progression as whatever it takes to get a raZor to near shavette, since that’s my standard now. That said, I don’t suppose to suggest we all want or even need a near shavette sharp to get the shave they prefer.

 

[kohalajohn]

Yup, it's personal.

I also prever "near shavette". But not actual full on feather shavette. If I could achieve full feather shavette sharpness with my rock, I would dial it back a touch.

I know what a shavette with a feather is like, and while it's good, I know that I have to pay good attention to my technique. I have experienced a level of sharpness where there is no warning. You lose attention, you head into a curve on your chin with a wrong angle and you nick yourself.

I prever very sharp, so a light touch is used and bbs can be achieved, but there is still some feedback, or warning, from the edge.

I get that some peeps have been straight razor shaving for so long that their shaving technique is always perfect. For those guys, there's no such thing as too sharp. A Feather SS with a pro blade in it. Go for it.

I think it's actually a good thing that it takes us years to get good at honing. Beginning levels of sharpness is suitable for beginner levels of shaving skill. And honing and shaving progress arm in arm.

They say The Method is good for beginners. Well, yes, it instantly jumps you to edge sharpness that would normally take a newbie five years to figure out. But is it good for a newbie to straights to have such sharpness in his hands?

You wouldn't start your kid out with his first motorcycle on a 1,000 horsepower machine.

Knowing what I know now, I'd start my kid out with a Nani or film about the 8k film level and let him decide when he wants to move upward.

 

[steveclarkus]

Okay! After post #4 where I said I haven't yet but soon!

I had this razor that I had been using just because I haven't used it in quite a while. The shave was lousy and not very clean or comfortable. I figured I had to go way down, short of an actual hone, so I started with a .5 micron diamond pasted balsa strop. I did 100 laps then rinsed and dried the blade and my hands. Then a 100 laps on my .25 micron diamond pasted balsa strop and again rinsed and dried the blade and hands. Then 100 laps on my .1 micron diamond pasted balsa strop. I ran the bevel laterally on the strop twice. Rinsed blade and hands again dried both then stropped the razor 100 laps on leather strop and shaved. Not perfect but what a surprise! It will probably need more laps on the .1 micron strop before only daily minimal 40-50 stropping will be done but I am becoming a believer in this system.

This is an ideal system for the new straight razor shaver and also for someone who just does not want to go the whole shebang of many many different kinds of expensive hones just to maintain their razors. This is also great for many of us who are aging and getting harder to handle heavy stones or see the bevels of the razor.

I still have many hones and will probably still use them but this was a fun experiment for me and I will probably use this system for a bit just to see how far I can get this edge.

I have a lot of this paste in these three syringes I purchased so it will go a long way and last a long time.

Mike

I’ve been using diamond on balsa for well over a year and have found nothing better. Get to 12k any way you like but the diamond finish is unbeatable (for me). I usually do 50 laps on .5 and .25 then one or two hundred on .1 just to make sure then maintain with 50 on .1 for daily maintenance - strop on leather of course.

 

[steveclarkus]

Yup, it's personal.

I also prever "near shavette". But not actual full on feather shavette. If I could achieve full feather shavette sharpness with my rock, I would dial it back a touch.

I know what a shavette with a feather is like, and while it's good, I know that I have to pay good attention to my technique. I have experienced a level of sharpness where there is no warning. You lose attention, you head into a curve on your chin with a wrong angle and you nick yourself.

I prever very sharp, so a light touch is used and bbs can be achieved, but there is still some feedback, or warning, from the edge.

I get that some peeps have been straight razor shaving for so long that their shaving technique is always perfect. For those guys, there's no such thing as too sharp. A Feather SS with a pro blade in it. Go for it.

I think it's actually a good thing that it takes us years to get good at honing. Beginning levels of sharpness is suitable for beginner levels of shaving skill. And honing and shaving progress arm in arm.

They say The Method is good for beginners. Well, yes, it instantly jumps you to edge sharpness that would normally take a newbie five years to figure out. But is it good for a newbie to straights to have such sharpness in his hands?

You wouldn't start your kid out with his first motorcycle on a 1,000 horsepower machine.

Knowing what I know now, I'd start my kid out with a Nani or film about the 8k film level and let him decide when he wants to move upward.

I was only into straights with a few shaves when I started using diamond paste and getting good 200k edges and it made learning much easier. Now at 400 to 500 shaves in, I haven’t cut myself once with a diamond edge. I believe the duller edges are more likely to result in cuts. Just my experience.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I have shaved with all sorts of edges.

• Dull edges honed by me before I knew anything much about how to hone.
• Edges not really sharp honed by me recently (my failures).
• Artist Club Feather SS razor with a Proline.
• Very sharp edges honed by a vendor.
• Lousy/mediocre edges honed by several vendors.
• Very sharp edges honed by me (recently).
• Just about everything in the midrange or wherever on the sharp scale (and the comfort scale).

In other words, I've experienced them all. I'm also sure most of you gentlemen have, too.

I see no way to learn to shave with a SR unless the edge is pretty durn sharp. That doesn't mean I want to have every edge feel like a brand new AC blade, but I wouldn't mind if every edge were as sharp as an almost new Proline and as comfortable as a dull bread knife.

Without the experience of a sharp edge it's impossible to ascertain whether the problem is my lousy technique or my lousy edge. A sharp edge removes one of those variables and forces me to focus on the other.

Recent experiences along these lines?

1. Today's shave? Dull edge. Lousy shave.
2. Yesterday's shave? Great sharpness. Very good shave.

I've learned enough now to know the difference and to know that even I - the World's Most Accomplished Straight Razor Shaver - can't get a good shave with a lousy edge.

Spoiler: I have for sale...

Happy shaves even if you don't buy my stuff,

Jim

 

[Twelvefret]

I consider you three my good friends and I appreciate the times we've spent learning. Steve is more than a razor mentor, he is my good friend. We converse everything evening about Antique Road Show or what to watch on Brit Box. He has allowed me to experience a self made SR and afforded me the chance to help others. As my business professor used to suggest, "win win agreements" are always to be sought for.

Since I began with a Feather SS, the standard was set well before I learning to hone my own.

Like Jim, I've attempted to shave off dull, dismal, and disastrous edges. Since getting my balsa properly loaded, my razors are near or the same as the Feather SS ( the finest shavette ever I might add).