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Which Side To Use For What?

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
I just received my first strop, USD 5 from China. It is cow hide and appears to be double sided. One side is almost like suede and the other is a rougher texture.

The strop has a usable length of 280mm by 50mm wide.

I assume that the suede side is for final stropping. Is this correct and how is the other side used (if at all)?

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Suede Side
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Rougher Side
 
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Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
That is a very odd strop. I don't think whoever made it has ever actually stropped a razor. This is common in Chinese manufactured goods. Normally there is a flesh side and a hair side, the hair side being the smooth side that is facing outward on the animal it came from. The flesh side is left unfinished and is rough. You strop of course on the shiny smooth hair side. Looks like you don't have a smooth side to strop on! Well, all I can suggest is strop on the smoother of your two rough sides. Meanwhile look for a seller on ebay called "thexbay" and have a look at his strop. It is made in Pakistan, which usually means similar poor quality to Chinese manufacture, but in this case the product is actually usable. Superior quality? Absolutely not. But usable and still inexpensive. He makes a 2" wide strop and also a 2-1/2" wide strop. Get the wider one. It is still under $10 shipped.

This is a good example of why, with very few exceptions, I hate Chinese products. They just look at a picture of something and decide to make it and sell it as cheaply as possible, without understanding the construction or function of the object at all. Even the much praised Gold Dollar razor, which BTW I happen to like very much for my own reasons. I would bet a dollar to a donut that nobody in the entire Gold Dollar factory shaves with a straight razor. It is a usable product only by accident, and with much effort on the part of the buyer. Same with all China made strops. I am sure there is one made that is actually usable. By accident, not intent. They don't CARE if their products are any good or not, as long as someone will buy.

Here is a link on the U.S. ebay site for the strop I mentioned above:

And here is a link on Amazon. Looks like arbitrage seller as it is more expensive.

The maker and original seller also has his own website. Am I recommending this strop? No, generally speaking. But I do recommend it for someone who just can't spend the kind of money a good strop costs, especially a newbie. If you cut this one up while learning, no big loss. Later you can upgrade to a better one. It is not a quality strop. It is simply a usable one.

If your razor is not properly honed by someone who actually knows how to hone razors, No strop on earth will make it sharp. Many very cheap razors are what we call "RSO", or Razor Shaped Objects. They cannot be honed to a shave ready edge, or cannot maintain a shave ready edge. They look like razors but cannot function as razors. Beware of these. But even the very best or most expensive razors need to be honed by a knowledgeable person before use. And it is not the same as sharpening a knife. Do not let someone who does not shave every day with a straight razor, hone your straight razor. The effort is doomed to failure.

BUT, even if you have only an RSO or a proper razor that is not shave ready, you can still practice stropping on your funny strop. Watch some youtube videos. Remember to always keep the spine on the strop. At the end of the stroke, flip the EDGE away from the strop, never the spine. The spine remains on the strop. Pull the strop tight but not like with all your strength or body weight. Do not put any abrasive compound on your strop. Its function is to burnish and align the edge, not remove metal from the edge.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Slash, thank you for your most detailed reply. I will keep my funny strop and use it with my RSO to learn the stropping action. My USD6 double sided 3000#/10000# honing stone should arrive next week. That should set me up for practice for well under USD20 total.

I will be overseas during Christmas/New Year so will look into getting some better quality gear January/February. For now, I am enjoying the learning experience.
 
Fine knapped suede is ok to strop on. In France “peach skin” strops were and still are very popular. I’ve used them with great success. YMMV and all that.


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Slash, thank you for your most detailed reply. I will keep my funny strop and use it with my RSO to learn the stropping action. My USD6 double sided 3000#/10000# honing stone should arrive next week. That should set me up for practice for well under USD20 total.

I will be overseas during Christmas/New Year so will look into getting some better quality gear January/February. For now, I am enjoying the learning experience.


I would caution about cheap whetstone. I had a set from 1k-8k. The first time I used them was the last time I used them. First off I couldn't feel a difference between the grit on the 1k to the 8k. And actually the 8k felt rougher than the 1k. I knew they were cheap and wouldn't work for crap but when I got my Shapton 1k I really understood why stones cost more. In all honesty I wouldn't be surprised if you are not able to get a shareable edge with those stones. I would suggest to start saving money and buy some decent stones. I got the cheap shapton 1k and a used shapton m5 12k each were about 30-40 if I remember. Then I got 2 naniwa stones a 3k and 5k for about 40 each. But since I didn't have a lot of money I got one at a time.

With the strop there are decent ones on Ebay all the time for about 20-30. The one you have as stated will serve as a learning strop. At 5 dollars if you knick it or even destroy it it's no big deal. Now if you had a Tony Miller 80 dollar strip and cut it its gonna hurt. Learn on that strop and plan for a better one. GBS has some on amazon for like 30 that dont look too bad. Black leather red canvas. I would stay away from the ones that have leather and fake leather as secondary.

For honing you can ask here there are a few members who are great honemeisters that I'm sure would be able to help you and hone a razor or two while you are getting decent stones.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
As for the stone quality, again, look at the source. If it is from China or some other country known for shoddy products, there is a very good chance that it will be useless or nearly so. Don't be too disappointed if you are not getting good results. You have a lot of factors conspiring against your desire for success. Do not lose hope. It is easy to become discouraged when you start out with the deck stacked against you. Try to develop good habits as you tinker with your gear. Hone in hand, never on a bench. Learn to regulate pressure. Firm pressure is called for when doing edge repair or bevel setting. Lighter pressure during the progression, becoming lighter as you proceed, finishing with very light pressure. Flip the edge, not the spine. Spine stays on the hone and stays on the strop. Use an X stroke. You should have something around 600 to 1000 grit for bevel setting. The 3k will be dreadfully slow and you will have to lap the 3k frequently. Be sure to lap your stones before first use, too. If it is a cheap razor or RSO, don't worry too much about screwing up. Make your mistakes on that, not a $180 razor from a big name maker or a $900 custom job. Or even a cheap but high quality vintage razor. Japanese synthetics are usually pretty good. Be sure and get stones of decent size. You CAN put a good edge on a razor with a tiny stone, but it is a lot easier with at least a 2-1/2" x 8" stone. Give yourself every possible advantage while learning. Keep an eye on BST for nice vintage razors that are already shave ready, and even ebay if you confine yourself to buying only from trusted sellers known to this forum. If your razor proves impossible to hone and use, you will need something to continue your shave journey with. Two razors is better than one.

You might think about getting a cheap shavette and a pack of Feather DE blades, just so you can shave right away with something that is shaped like a straight razor. If you keep the skin stretched tight while you shave, and keep the shave angle very low, with the spine of the razor dragging or almost dragging on the skin, light pressure, and very slick lather, you will survive the experience. Shavettes are infamous for cutting up newbie faces but it doesn't have to be so. Before I retired, I often took a shavette and Feather blades to sea with me, rather than a collection of straights and all the associated paraphernalia. You can get a usable shavette for under $10. Doesn't need honing. Doesn't need stropping. Blade gets dull, change it. Easy sneezy. It will get your hand in the game, anyway.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
After many hours of practice with the funny strop and RSO, I think I have almost perfected my stropping technique. The bevel is getting a mirror finish and even showing some signs of getting sharper. So far no nicks or cuts in the leather. My stropping rate is at about 2 strops (1 each way) per second.

The 3k/10k synthetic stone should arrive today or tomorrow. Today I will visit my local hardware store and buy a tile and wet&dry sandpaper to lap the stone before use. I am thinking that about 300 grade w&d should do to lap the stone.

After the New Year, I will order some lapping film and give that a go on my second razor (that will probably be a Titan for USD 32). I can get 7 sheets of film from Japan (30 to 0.3 micron) for USD 16.

Before getting my RSO too sharp, I will start to use it to practice my SR shaving technique. Not so much as to actually shave but just the holding and stroke technique.
 
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rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Slash, I thought about getting a shavette but decided against it. I can be a persistent bugger so will stick with learning using a true SR. I really want to master SR shaving and all the maintenance involved. Yes, it will take time, effort and a lot of learning.

I am sure that I will make many mistakes along the way. As one of my first bosses once told me "if you never make a mistake, you have never tried to learn something new".

It can be frustrating for an experienced SR shaver to watch a novice learning and making mistakes, but the experienced persons needs to remember that once they were a novice also making mistakes.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Really some great information in this thread. Sometimes I'm amazed at how gentlemen such as @Slash McCoy are so willing to share what they've learned through perhaps painful experience.

Used to be that we didn't have the advantage of the internet and forums such as this one. I tried SR shaving many decades ago and had zero information about even the most basic things. I can remember having to figure out what do do with the strop (as in lead with the spine, as in every little thing). I sliced myself up (and have scars to prove it) so I quit, but some gentlemen, Slash being the prototypic example, persisted.

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Thanks, Slash. You're the best, sir.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Chan, I agree with you about Slash's advice and I do take in everything he has told me. He is not waisting his time with me.

I don't mean to put Slash off with my replies as I really do appreciate his experienced advice. I just have to balance my limited budget while slowly learning.

Although I might at times not fully comply with his recommendations, I never forget them. As my learning progresses I am sure that his recommendations will be incorporated into my SR progress.

While working with my Titan over the next few months, I will keep an eye on what "vintage" SR razors become available in BST. That will probably be my next razor buy.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Chan, I agree with you about Slash's advice and I do take in everything he has told me. He is not waisting his time with me.

I don't mean to put Slash off with my replies as I really do appreciate his experienced advice. I just have to balance my limited budget while slowly learning.

Although I might at times not fully comply with his recommendations, I never forget them. As my learning progresses I am sure that his recommendations will be incorporated into my SR progress.

While working with my Titan over the next few months, I will keep an eye on what "vintage" SR razors become available in BST. That will probably be my next razor buy.

I apologize if I gave the impression you or anyone was causing Slash to waste his time or that folks other than me don't appreciate him or his advice.

One thing I know about Slash's advice is he is great about advising inexpensive or less expensive options (film instead of stones, $10 strop, etc.). There's a hilarious video of Slash somewhere talking razors and the metric system. He's all decked out in overalls. It's very funny and worth looking for, but it's also very instructive. I should watch it again.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
...over the next few months, I will keep an eye on what "vintage" SR razors become available in BST. That will probably be my next razor buy.

It's worth reading up on and watching videos on how to buy eBay razors. Keith @Gamma has one. Not sure where to locate it, but it's good. There are a great many pretty good to extremely excellent straight razors on eBay. I've found some really good user grade (or better) straights on ebay for prices as low as $10 including shipping (to me in the US). I'm not saying $10 finds are common, but they're out there. In the $15-$25 range there are a great many more. Most need to be honed.

On the BST there are all sorts of straights from the cheaper user grade razors to the super high end beauties and custom razors. Many are shave ready according to the standard of the gentleman selling them.

Of course, it's not necessary to spend much money. You may only need one razor. My wife reminds me pretty often that her grandfather had one straight razor, one mug, one strop, and one brush his whole life. Members of B&B find amazingly great stuff at yard sales and junk stores. I've been given some nice razors (safety razors) by people who know of my interest in them.

I realize you live in an area of the world I know very little about and I have no idea how easily found straights might be there. There are vendors on eBay who sell Japanese and other straights (Japanese straights are generally excellent) and ship from Japan.

Good luck.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Wow thanks for the kind words, guys! There are others here that are just as ready to help, so I am less of a shaving hero than you think, but I thank you for the compliments anyway. I just want to see this thing of ours become more popular and mainstream, and more beginners start out in an efficient and productive manner without wasting a lot of money and time.
 
Wow thanks for the kind words, guys! There are others here that are just as ready to help, so I am less of a shaving hero than you think, but I thank you for the compliments anyway. I just want to see this thing of ours become more popular and mainstream, and more beginners start out in an efficient and productive manner without wasting a lot of money and time.


Absolutely agree. I wasted a lot of money in the beginning and wish I would have found this site before I wasted the money. Hence the personal advice off of my own mistakes.
 
Yep, the budget is why I use films and hadn't purchased more pastes until now. I just ordered my first diamond paste based on a recommendation from Slash. Little steps.

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