Which light for PCC (9mm) for "Get Home Bag" use and HD

[JCinPA]

This is not a brand question, I have a couple of TLR-1 lights and I like them. I also have SureFire flashlight type with a tail cap switch on my AR Carbine and I like it a lot. They are older, however, and not producing the lumens newer lights do, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, IMO.

The Ruger PC Carbine I just got, model 19122 with the Magpul stock and MOE front handguard, has a sling and a Sig Sauer Romeo5 mounted on it, and that is it. No backup sights, nothing. This is my truck gun or Get Home Bag weapon, no bells and whistles. At home I'll use my Wilson Combat SFX9, plus AR carbine and shotguns for HD. This is primarily intended for bugging back home through dangerous circumstances, and I'll pair it with my Glock 45 (same magazines).

My question is, is 1,000 lumens really necessary? Yes, it will blind an attacker quite nicely, but it's hard to advance on a 300 lumen light shined in your eyes, too. And the 1,000 lumen lights can wreak havoc on the shooter's night vision. Assuming I want to get another TLR-1 because I'm familiar with them and like them, I can get a 300 lumen or a 1,000 lumen model. Which level would you choose and why.

I'm not that interested in other lights, but we are a brand-freak kind of website so feel free to try to convert me to your brand, but I also want you to address the lumen question.

I'm really stuck on this one, have looked at both at Amazon for a couple days now, and can't make up my mind. Thanks.

This is the gun ...

 

[JCinPA]

Ah, second question! Most places I read say mount the Romeo5 as far forward on the rail on the receiver as possible. This is a takedown gun so the barrel is easily removed. However, I've read a few posters who recommend placing it in the rearmost position on the rail on the MOE M-LOK section on the barrel assembly.

What are your thoughts on that?

 

[nortac]

@JCinPA , Since your PCC is primarily a truck gun/ get back to the crib gun, I view that it will be used mostly outdoors as opposed to clearing rooms in the house. For outdoors work I think a higher lumen light would be advantageous. For a primarily indoor or CQB use, it has been argued that more than 500 lumens is excessive and has too much light reflected back from the surrounding walls, etc. I recently struggled with the decision on whether to get a 1000 lumen or 500 lumen light for my Glock 19. I eventually opted for the TLR-7 HX because even though it may well be used indoors, it can be set to only 500 lumens with the rechargeable battery or it will only produce 500 lumens powered by a standard CR123 battery. I like the idea of using 1000 lumens with the strobe function as a non-lethal option. I also took my G 19 with the light outside when it was dark and that 1000 lumens illuminated a pretty good distance and I immediately thought that level of illumination would work well with a carbine, as it is potentially more of a stand off weapon, as compared to a handgun. I'm not necessarily saying that the TLR-7 would be the best one to use on a carbine, but that level of illumination would be a nice option.

As for positioning of the red dot, I favor the optics forward position. This allows for the best peripheral vision using both eyes open and leaves plenty of room for BUIS and/or a 3x magnifier if so desired. So I tend to place my RDS over the ejection port/magwell or slightly forward but on the receiver, not out on the handguard.

 

[JCinPA]

@nortac Thanks for the comments! Interestingly that was sort of the way I was thinking. I would never have a 1,000 lumen light on a HD weapon, but I was thinking maybe for my intended purpose the 1,000 lumen made sense. If not using a pistol, I'm more apt to use my shotty in HD and that has a 300 lumen light on it and has proven to be plenty inside the home.

I also was thinking that on the red dot position. I like as far forward on the receiver as I can get it because it never shifts, even slightly, in relation to the receiver. Will the barrel assembly go together the same way every time? Presumably it will. So I cannot make an argument against mounting the red dot on the M-LOC handguard. But most folks seem to suggest as far forward no the receiver is the way to go. I don't know why, but that seems to be the majority consensus.

I think I'll go with the TLR-1 1,000 lumen light and a Blue Force Gear Vickers sling, which I love on my ARs. Also familiar with them, I like to use similar gear as much as possible.

Maybe a violin case, too?

 

[JCinPA]

I hope to chronograph my defense load from this gun this weekend, and determine the "best" zero for it, and will publish my trajectory chart out to about 100 yards. Realistically, the velocity increase I get from the longer barrel is not likely to be any higher than about 200 fps, probably less, and wind drift will be considerable, I don't see this as a weapon I need to worry about long-distance accuracy with. Even outdoors, it's pretty much a CQB weapon, IMO, but probably usable out to 100 yards.

If anyone else has done ballistic work with one of these, I'd love to hear about it.

 

[nortac]

While I haven't done any ballistic work up or even chrono'd any defensive ammo, I have no trouble connecting with an 11 x 12 steel plate at 100 yds with my moderate 9 mm handloads from my AR 9 "pistol" with a 10 inch barrel.

 

[FWoo45]

Look at candela instead of lumens. I have been a big fan of the TLR-1HLs, I will be trying a MOD next.

 

[Rob72]

Lumens/candela can be an issue- it is user-dependent. If you have problems with night-vision recovery, higher output can be a disadvantage. To check (subjectively) go out at night with your 1K light, and shine it into an entryway that is lit by with a standard outdoor porch light, or ambient street light. Light it fast, and turn it off. If you have flashes or flaring with ambient night lights, a lower power light may be better. Run the test a couple of times.

I prefer green to red dots, universally now. IMO, YMMV, etc..

I'm very astigmatic, so I run the dot (generally) mid-point. That will mean at the very rear of the TD barrel mount, or at the very front of a receiver mount. I've found this to be very dependent on the platform, based on cheekweld location (or lack of), LOP, am I setting up to use with my corrective lenses or specifically without (I wear glasses all the time), etc...

Another carbine goodie: SD Tactical Blast Cage. I really, REALLY, like this. Kaw Valley Precision, Hera Arms, quite a few others make cheaper linear comps, but the SD cage is modular and compatible with a wide range of muzzle devices (and really light- TI).
Just to throw crap forward instead of 360*, the CMMG Linear Comp works well. Linear comps are great for low light shooting, shooting from a vehicle and indoors.

 

[JCinPA]

Good news! I don't need to get a light at the moment, I found I have a TLR-1 HL on my HD shotty, which I usually leave racked in favor of a bedside pistol. I didn't want the 1,000 lumens for indoor, so I'll put it on the Ruger PC Carbine. I ordered a Blue Force Gear Vickers sling for it, another QD sling mount, and a piece of picatinny rail for the light. With the Sig Sauer Romeo5, I should be G2G for a while. I may get a Magpul larger pistol grip at some point, but I'm not gonna load the gun up with forward grips or other geegaws.

@Rob72 That blast cage is an interesting device, I like the concept. I kind of wish the barrel length on the Ruger was a little less, but I could see that as something reasonable. I'll have to see how loud this is at my first range outing. May not be necessary with the PCC, but looks like a great idea for an AR in 5.56.

 

[nikonNUT]

@JCinPA. You "might" want the red dot attached to the pic rail section on the barrel so zero stays consistence. I will be close regardless so that is merely a suggestion. As for a light, I like a plain ol' surefire clone with a momentary tape switch. Is is awkward to say the least trying to punch a tail cap while maintaining a c-clamp. A tape switch is nice for muzzle control and it is light press momentary long press continuous as needed. As for accuracy... My SPC9 will ring steel on a 12" gong easily at 200.

 

[dojpros]

Glad it worked out. Pics when the platform is put together!

 

[JCinPA]

I have a surefire with tailcap switch on my main AR carbine, one of my first builds, and it works fine. However, I have several TLR-1 lights and have trained with them for years and have no trouble with the switch while holding the weapon in firing position. It's mounted on the left side front, and is very natural for me.

Blue Force Gear Vickers sling arrived overnight, now just waiting for the small picatinny rail section to put it all together, and that should arrive before I'm home from work. I'll post pics later today, hopefully.

 

[Whisky]

Dang it John, now I NEED a pistol calibre carbine for my get home bag. I've been thinking about this for a while since my current set up has a Ruger 10/22 takedown in it and I wanted something with a little more oomph to it. I don't have any Glock mags anymore, but I have more than a few Smith and Wesson M&P mags so it's a good thing that S&W makes a semi-comparable carbine. I'll post some pics when I pick it up.

 

[Rob72]

Dang it John, now I NEED a pistol calibre carbine for my get home bag. I've been thinking about this for a while since my current set up has a Ruger 10/22 takedown in it and I wanted something with a little more oomph to it. I don't have any Glock mags anymore, but I have more than a few Smith and Wesson M&P mags so it's a good thing that S&W makes a semi-comparable carbine. I'll post some pics when I pick it up.

Recover Tactical modular PCC is reasonable cost, and builds on what's already in the shop, in many cases. The barrels use a tapered bushing, which is why they are model-specific, and do not need a Neilsen. Not as solid as a traditional PCC, but definitely packable in a small knapsack, and quickly changes your CC piece to something with a tad more reach. Especially if you add a 3x to whatever optic you run...

 

[JCinPA]

@Whisky Sorry, I hate when I’m an enabler, but apparently I’m pretty good at it.

Not to get political, but let’s just say recent quoted comments by very notable pols caused me to think a Get Home Bag was a good idea. I doubt I’ll need it, but better to have it and not need it, etc. I’d say it’s on a higher priority for me than a kitchen fire extinguisher and I’ve had one of those for decades.

I’m too old for a BOB, I’ll make my stand at home, if I need to, no survivalist stuff in the woods for me. But a Get Home Bag is making increasing sense to me lately. And I’m about 15 miles work to home. I can pack a 48-hour use bag pretty well I think, and the PCC made more sense to me than anything else. At home I have two safes of stuff to choose from but a PCC and pistol taking the same magazine and defensive ammo—the good stuff—makes the most sense to me for that purpose.

The S&W is fairly well-regarded. I’m not a huge Glock fan, but it’s a good hammer, and I have some mags. A model 45 and the Ruger is a perfect pair, IMO, so I went with it. If I had S&W mags, I’d have gone that way, I wanted it to match stuff I had in stock without stocking another new pistol (we’re getting into danger of divorce territory as it is ).

I’ll hope to get pics up shortly, but I’m keeping it really KISS. Vickers sling, Romeo5 red dot, and TLR-1 HL and that’s it.

I got this earlier this year to store it in the SUV

Amazon.com

 

[nortac]

I like these discreet soft cases from Midway USA, they used to offer more colors.

MidwayUSA Discreet Tactical Rifle Case 36 Black - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/939293374?pid=946695

 

[JCinPA]

@Whisky Just spoke to a friend at work who has the S&W and he loves it

Smith & Wesson M&P FPC in 9mm: Full Review - Guns and Ammo

Smith & Wesson's new pistol caliber carbine easy to use and easier to transport. Here's a full review.

www.gunsandammo.com

 

[Whisky]

@JCinPA I like the idea of the lockable box, I may have to get one of those too. I started carrying a get home bag when I lived in Michigan because I’d occasionally have to drive up to 90 miles to get to the station if I was covering rural shift. Winter driving there can be a mess so it was more for getting stranded on the road than any worry about civil unrest etc. My bag is a backpack that could fit 3 MRE’s, water, first aid kid, fire starter etc in. The .22 made sense for taking rabbits etc if it took longer that a couple of days due to the weather. Living in Indy the situation is definitely different so different tools for different jobs. I was originally looking at a 9mm AR but i like the look of the folding carbine better. Especially because it will fit completely concealed within my backpack.

 

[JCinPA]

Part of the reason I like the Ruger, it takes down into two pieces to go into the backpack. In the unlikely event (but waaaay more likely than a couple short years ago) I’ll need a GHB, I want the pistol visible on the belt (legal in PA), but I don’t want the attention a slung rifle would bring. Until I want it. Both the S&W folding and Ruger takedown help with that. My buddy loves his S&W. I would have probably gone that way if I had S&W mags, but I don’t, and I had a bunch of Glock mags.

You’re on the right track! My rail section won’t arrive until tomorrow, so no pics tonight. But soon!

 

[Whisky]

Ordered the M&P FPC today. Remarkably Cabelas was the cheapest when taking to account transfer fees, shipping etc. should be here in 4-5 days. Now I need an optic and I’m thinking a suppressor for it as well. Get home bags are almost as deep a rabbit hole as shaving supplies.