Which Blade Sounds Best In A Lambda Athena Razor

[BudgetShaverGuy]

Sorry, but for me a loud razor is never cutting easily. The most efficient blades and razors are always very quiet for me. If it’s loud there’s a lot of tugging going on.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

Sorry, but for me a loud razor is never cutting easily. The most efficient blades and razors are always very quiet for me. If it’s loud there’s a lot of tugging going on.

Often that’s true, but certainly not with this razor. Sound comes from vibration, but it isn’t only the blade edge that can be the source of this vibration.

With the Athena the blade is clamped all along, just 1.8mm from the blade edge. The edge is extremely rigid, and it feels rigid and very much not ‘tuggy’. I suspect the sound must be coming from inside the razor head - presumably the centre of the blade is vibrating and the head contains water channels that I think must have an amplifying / resonator effect. The Lambda Ares - the Athena’s brother razor - doesn’t have the water channels and it is a lot less loud. Everything else about the Ares geometry is quite similar to the Athena, so I think this tends to support my intuition.

 

[APBinNCA]

I think I read somewhere that Kai blades are thicker. You might be right. Actually it’s something I’d be interested to know, since I seem to like a lot of the razors that clamp the blade rigidly, and blade rigidity appears to give smoother shaves with my stubble. At least in my mind it does.

That said, I’m sure I also read that Bic Chrome Platinums are thicker too, but for me they seem to chatter and become harsh against the grain (though they are astonishingly smooth feeling with the grain). Maybe it’s more complex - the thickness of the blade centre has one effect, and the thickness / angle of the edge bevel has another effect.

I bet @APBinNCA knows.

I always thought they felt thick too, but I seem to remember somebody pulling out a micrometer to dispel that. I think your theory about rigid clamping is the correct answer, but there is a posibility that temper plays a role. I read years ago that these aren't made with the ubiquitous Sandvik rolls and had proprietary heat treatment. My theory is that these have a different modulus of elasticity, which may be in my head too.

There is rather math heavy post trying quantify the chatter from the Bic CPs because they have a very narrow bevel which would be more prone to chatter. If I remember correctly, they get around this by having a steeper micro bevel. I have theorised in the past that this produces the weird combination of tugging and chattering. Also, the Bics are actually a tad narrower. Now that I think about it, I wonder if that is the result of the amount of grinding to achieve the bevels they have?

I really don't know very much, I just come up with theories that I have no way to test. That math heavy post was a real reminder of that, I mean we are talking actual equations and stuff out of a book in the post! It's not worth finding it unless somebody wants a headache.

I like threads like this because they are a nice mix of personal experience, obscure topic and some acknowledgement that there is probably some science behind that experience. My Blackbird Ti isn't exactly quiet itself! I wonder about the Brass Bird?

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I always thought they felt thick too, but I seem to remember somebody pulling out a micrometer to dispel that. I think your theory about rigid clamping is the correct answer, but there is a posibility that temper plays a role. I read years ago that these aren't made with the ubiquitous Sandvik rolls and had proprietary heat treatment. My theory is that these have a different modulus of elasticity, which may be in my head too.

There is rather math heavy post trying quantify the chatter from the Bic CPs because they have a very narrow bevel which would be more prone to chatter. If I remember correctly, they get around this by having a steeper micro bevel. I have theorised in the past that this produces the weird combination of tugging and chattering. Also, the Bics are actually a tad narrower. Now that I think about it, I wonder if that is the result of the amount of grinding to achieve the bevels they have?

I really don't know very much, I just come up with theories that I have no way to test. That math heavy post was a real reminder of that, I mean we are talking actual equations and stuff out of a book in the post! It's not worth finding it unless somebody wants a headache.

I like threads like this because they are a nice mix of personal experience, obscure topic and some acknowledgement that there is probably some science behind that experience. My Blackbird Ti isn't exactly quiet itself! I wonder about the Brass Bird?

Awesome. Your theorising is always informative and thought-provoking, Aaron. Every time you post I learn something new and it gives me additional avenues to explore and experiment. And I really enjoy trying to learn and understand better what might create the characteristics I observe using different razors and blades. No need for definitive conclusions - it’s the journey of discovery and raising ideas that brings the fun. I just think the more we try to understand things, the more we will learn about what things we’re going to like.

I didn’t consider tempering, and it makes sense. I guess the alloys used will vary somewhat as well.

Also you are the first person to corroborate or reference the chattering I experience with Bic CP blades against-the-grain. It makes this blade almost unusable for me, which is a shame because the smoothness really is amazing, and they are sharp. I thought it was only me who experienced it, though, so I’m glad I’m not mad. I guess most other people’s stubble isn’t a problem for the Bics, but mine seems to be. I think I do best with sharp and rigid blade edges.

 

[Iridian]

I would try thinner blades. Nacets seem pretty thick and stable to me. So maybe pick the other BIC for your next try.

I am likely to rather pick up the Ares, so can't participate, but this topic sounds interesting. SCNR.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

My Blackbird Ti isn't exactly quiet itself! I wonder about the Brass Bird?

It’s a while since I used a Blackbird but I recall being struck by the sound, which I remember to be high-pitched and seeming to be high definition in its clarity, like you hear each hair being cut rather than a general sound of cutting. If my memory is accurate this would imply a high frequency, low amplitude vibration, with rapid decay (which I guess could also be due to the low amplitude or damping). The Blackbird has virtually no blade clamping and only the central 1cm of the blade is supported from below. But it has a very sharp-edged top cap which runs along the top of the blade. I imagine what happens is that the blade initially moves but the top cap dissipates the energy and dampens the vibration rapidly, except for the 2mm or so of the blade that is revealed past the edge of the cap.

I have steel, brass and titanium versions and I’d have to try them to see how they differ.

 

[APBinNCA]

It’s a while since I used a Blackbird but I recall being struck by the sound, which I remember to be high-pitched and seeming to be high definition in its clarity, like you hear each hair being cut rather than a general sound of cutting. If my memory is accurate this would imply a high frequency, low amplitude vibration, with rapid decay (which I guess could also be due to the low amplitude or damping). The Blackbird has virtually no blade clamping and only the central 1cm of the blade is supported from below. But it has a very sharp-edged top cap which runs along the top of the blade. I imagine what happens is that the blade initially moves but the top cap dissipates the energy and dampens the vibration rapidly, except for the 2mm or so of the blade that is revealed past the edge of the cap.

I have steel, brass and titanium versions and I’d have to try them to see how they differ.

This is about right for the SS Blackbird, the Ti has a unique sound to it. Much closer to the classic buttering toast sound so, lower frequency I guess. The thing that is striking about the Blackbird, that has no relevance to this thread, is the lack of chatter against the grain when used with skill. The Blackbird has at least as much blade bend as the Athena and only 1mm of blade reveal, that seams to be why it is so rigid against the grain. My theory about the chatter, and why it doesn't cause irritation, is that the blade is at a low enough shaving angle(even steep) that the blade apex itself isn't contacting skin. It's also clear that the amplitude of the vibration is lower than something like a classic Tech, maybe the distance the blade travels is less due to the low blade reveal and surprising rigidity. I suspect the blade slams into the top cap and both transmits the vibration and stops the blade chatter dead. It's kind of interesting to play around with a plastic ruler and a loaded Blackbird and see how the blade support actually works in different directions. Now back to your regularly scheduled Athena discussion...

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I would try thinner blades. Nacets seem pretty thick and stable to me. So maybe pick the other BIC for your next try.

I am likely to rather pick up the Ares, so can't participate, but this topic sounds interesting. SCNR.

The Bic Astor is the best sounding blade I’ve used in the Athena so far. It was quite operatic.

Are there other thin blades you can think of? I’ve got a few lined up that I’ve never used before - Astras (both types), Gillette Indian 7 O’Clock Blacks, Rapistas (both types - I call them ‘rapistas’, anyway), Polsilvers (the old stainless, before iridium coating), and maybe some others that have been sitting around and forgotten.

 

[Iridian]

Seems "stainless" with not so thick coating is what produces a bit more sound.

KAI, Feather, Shark Super Stainless maybe then!

 

[Phoenixkh]

I think I read somewhere that Kai blades are thicker. You might be right. Actually it’s something I’d be interested to know, since I seem to like a lot of the razors that clamp the blade rigidly, and blade rigidity appears to give smoother shaves with my stubble. At least in my mind it does.

That said, I’m sure I also read that Bic Chrome Platinums are thicker too, but for me they seem to chatter and become harsh against the grain (though they are astonishingly smooth feeling with the grain). Maybe it’s more complex - the thickness of the blade centre has one effect, and the thickness / angle of the edge bevel has another effect.

I bet @APBinNCA knows.

I have a couple sets of dial calipers. I'll measure the thickness of a couple blades and report back. I don't think either of them has a resolution under .001" though. A human hair is generally around .003" thick.. whiskers would be thicker.

I don't remember if the digital caliper has a better resolution. I'll have to check and see.

 

[APBinNCA]

Seems "stainless" with not so thick coating is what produces a bit more sound.

KAI, Feather, Shark Super Stainless maybe then!

Possibly the chromium or platinum or other heavy metals? Feathers do have platinum though.

 

[FarmerTan]

Until I have one, I really shouldn't comment, but I know what song should be playing while shaving:

Richie Valens "La Bamba" without a doubt. That thing (in pictures anyway) looks like it's dancing. Purely lovely sculpture that thing.

People in another thread are talking about returning used razors, whether that is kosher or not, but I will say one thing: THAT la Bamba razor could slice my throat and I would STILL have it on display in my living room. It's gorgeous. NO WAY would it go back.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

Until I have one, I really shouldn't comment, but I know what song should be playing while shaving:

Richie Valens "La Bamba" without a doubt. That thing (in pictures anyway) looks like it's dancing. Purely lovely sculpture that thing.

People in another thread are talking about returning used razors, whether that is kosher or not, but I will say one thing: THAT la Bamba razor could slice my throat and I would STILL have it on display in my living room. It's gorgeous. NO WAY would it go back.

Beautiful enough to go to the cellar and crack open one of your finest vintage Arko sticks for it?

 

[Iridian]

Possibly the chromium or platinum or other heavy metals? Feathers do have platinum though.

Treet Carbon Steel blades maybe. I am not sure that there is that much variety in resulting sound output though.

The thing with stainless/platinum/chromium labels for razor blades is that the differences in material or coating are often neglible or not there. Platinum/Chromium usually have a bit thicker coating than those labeled SS. The Super Iridium blades are platinum e.g, Iridium is a very common minor impurity in East European/Russian platinum.

 

[spacemonkey42]

I'm not hearing that much of a difference compared to other razors. I mostly hear the standard "buttering toast" like sound of whiskers being snipped off that I hear with most of my razors. It might be a little louder than other heavy, solid razors of a similar weight to the Athena.

Sometimes there is a bit of a hollow-sound to it, which like @Mr. Shavington, I would guess is a little bit of amplification of the sound through the lather/water channel. And, yes, the water channel is sooooooo awesome!

 

[Frag_Out]

Treet Carbon Steel blades maybe. I am not sure that there is that much variety in resulting sound output though.

The thing with stainless/platinum/chromium labels for razor blades is that the differences in material or coating are often neglible or not there. Platinum/Chromium usually have a bit thicker coating than those labeled SS. The Super Iridium blades are platinum e.g, Iridium is a very common minor impurity in East European/Russian platinum.

I don't have the razor but I know metal. The carbons should sound better, might even ring

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I don't have the razor but I know metal. The carbons should sound better, might even ring

I must order some Treet carbon blades to try this.

 

[Frag_Out]

I must order some Treet carbon blades to try this.

I've a ton I would gladly post your way but I believe you are not in the states?

 

[Frag_Out]

I'm a blacksmith. I don't know the science but I know forged carbon steel "sings". The Treet Classic and Falcon appear to show a straw colored temper. The "Black Beauty" would be another contender for me for sound. Of the three mentioned the Classic has been the sharpest most capable shaver

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I'm a blacksmith. I don't know the science but I know forged carbon steel "sings". The Treet Classic and Falcon appear to show a straw colored temper. The "Black Beauty" would be another contender for me for sound. Of the three mentioned the Classic has been the sharpest most capable shaver

Thanks so much for the insights. You’re right, I’m in Poland, but it’ll be easy to get the blades and they cost very little. Helps me a lot to know you favour the Treet Classics, as I have no experience with Treets or indeed carbon steel blades.