which between these two?

[Staggers and Jags]

now i have a choice coming up for me to seriously start my honing journy and im on a budget for short term and long term. which of these would be a better choice to realkly seriously start learning on?

choice 1: with this i think it would last longer and possibly work better than the lapping film in my second choice. i want to try stones but cant throw a ton of money at the stones just to find out i like using them less than lapping film. it looks like it woulkd be easier to set up and use and has nearly everything i need. i know eric from AIWS has sharpened razors with a set from this price and has gotten a good edge from the ones he used. these seem like they would last a long time and i wouldent have to replace them for a long time. even mentions sharpening razors with them in the description and has 4.5 stars https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B..._title_dp_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1GL161FOBBJK5

choice 2: ive had some experience with lapping film but its really left a bad taste in my mouth partially cause i didnt know how finicky thwey would be at first and i didnt have a proper substrate besides a stained mirror. but this set comes with the flat plexi glass as a substrate and pressure sensitive adhesive meaning i could use one plate to holkd two grits and not have to remove the sheets and rish\k getting something under them. but i also know these lapping films wear out quicker and are way more finicky to use than stones. im hesatant to have another go with them but perhaps with the float glass or whatever its called as a substrate it may be different. https://www.amazon.com/Taytools-279...ix=lapping+film+kit+plexiglass,aps,108&sr=8-7

im really worried about wasting money since my income isnt guaranteed from month to month. i know next month ill have the money but after that idk. any imput and help would greatly be appreciated! thank you!

 

[Empire straights]

now i have a choice coming up for me to seriously start my honing journy and im on a budget for short term and long term. which of these would be a better choice to realkly seriously start learning on?

choice 1: with this i think it would last longer and possibly work better than the lapping film in my second choice. i want to try stones but cant throw a ton of money at the stones just to find out i like using them less than lapping film. it looks like it woulkd be easier to set up and use and has nearly everything i need. i know eric from AIWS has sharpened razors with a set from this price and has gotten a good edge from the ones he used. these seem like they would last a long time and i wouldent have to replace them for a long time. even mentions sharpening razors with them in the description and has 4.5 stars https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B..._title_dp_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1GL161FOBBJK5

choice 2: ive had some experience with lapping film but its really left a bad taste in my mouth partially cause i didnt know how finicky thwey would be at first and i didnt have a proper substrate besides a stained mirror. but this set comes with the flat plexi glass as a substrate and pressure sensitive adhesive meaning i could use one plate to holkd two grits and not have to remove the sheets and rish\k getting something under them. but i also know these lapping films wear out quicker and are way more finicky to use than stones. im hesatant to have another go with them but perhaps with the float glass or whatever its called as a substrate it may be different. https://www.amazon.com/Taytools-279205-Lapping-Microfinishing-Sharpening/dp/B07TBGTVHF/ref=sr_1_7?crid=3A0QEFHVZ3OEN&keywords=lapping+film+kit+plexiglass&qid=1640651851&sprefix=lapping+film+kit+plexiglass,aps,108&sr=8-7

im really worried about wasting money since my income isnt guaranteed from month to month. i know next month ill have the money but after that idk. any imput and help would greatly be appreciated! thank you!

I bought a similar water stone set from ebay that came with a lapping stone, 1k/3k/5k/8k, base, and all kinds of stuff for like $30. I hate waterstones now but I'll tell you, I could get very sharp edges off of them easily. They weren't smooth like naturals are but if you get some CrOx to put on a strop block I think you'd be set.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Do NOT get the PSA backed film. If you get film, get the assorted non-PSA set from the same vendor, I think it's 24.99. And go to Lowe's and get a 3x12 glass subway tile for like 3 bucks. Grab a straight edge from the tool section and find a flat one. None of them will be dead flat but I found 3 or 4 that were flat enough to hone on.

Can't get your other link to open so I can't comment on that.

 

[Staggers and Jags]

Do NOT get the PSA backed film. If you get film, get the assorted non-PSA set from the same vendor, I think it's 24.99. And go to Lowe's and get a 3x12 glass subway tile for like 3 bucks. Grab a straight edge from the tool section and find a flat one. None of them will be dead flat but I found 3 or 4 that were flat enough to hone on.

Can't get your other link to open so I can't comment on that.

can i ask why no, to the psa? also why couldent i just find thopse plexiglass tiles seperately on amazon im about 45 minutes from the nearest lowes

 

[Frank Shaves]

Unless someone has something good to say, I would not buy the Dragonite. Get something that is proven to work.

I bought a King combo stone to learn to set bevels. Waste of money. I ended up buying a Naniwa Professional (Chosera) 1k, Shapton HR 4k and 8k.

What problem are you trying to solve? Just finish your razors or do you want a full progression?

One idea is to buy one good finishing stone and first focus on this. And then, later, buy a 1k, 4k and 8k when you ready to set bevels.

A 12k synthetic is a good place to start if you want a finishing stone. A good one will cost you about $100.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

One, the psa backing isn't very consistent in thickness, so it won't matter how flat your substrate is because the film won't be flat. Two, if cost is a concern, you only need one piece of whatever substrate because you can just switch the film. Dust or debris under the film is a problem, I rinse both sides of the film and the plate under the tap before using but still junk gets under there once in a while. Just avoid the bump if that happens

You can get plexi if it's convenient. I have a Lowe's close so I was able to pick through the tiles. @Slash McCoy recommends TAP Plastics, I think. I haven't tried their stuff.

Film doesn't last forever. I honed about 25 razors on one combo set from Taylor Toolworks. The lower grits wear out faster because you're using a little more pressure at that stage. The good news is you can set bevels on everything from 30 micron up to 9 micron. Even the 5 micron can work if the razor doesn't have a lot of issues. A good set of synthetics would be a better longterm investment. But, from what you've posted, ot sounds like you're still trying to find your way. In that case, a relatively cheap set of films now will give you a chance to develop your skills, and it should last you a little while.

Also, if you get rocks, you need a way to lap them. Which is another upfront expense.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Ok, I got the link to open finally. I would avoid those combo stones. I got a similar one, different brand (Sharp Pebble, I think?), a 3k/8k combo. Couple problems. They're pretty soft and kick up a LOT of mud. The "3k" leaves a scratch pattern that looks a lot more like 1k to my eyes. The 8k isn't as bad, but it takes forever to polish out the "3k" scratches. And you need to lap them. Frequently. And, you still need a finisher. Maybe somebody with a lot of experience could get a shaveable edge of the 8k, but it would require careful dilution of the slurry and a perfectly light touch. Given that you've been struggling with film I don't know that this is going to be a good choice for you. I did manage to get a couple acceptable edges off mine, combined with a cheap finisher, but they were not great edges. Just okay. Maybe with a pasted strop you could make it work.

 

[C FrankC]

I get that in the beginning there is a desire to get some kind of kit that will be inexpensive and simple to acquire. IMHO these just don't exist.
Many on the honing sub-forum would agree that non- adhesive backed film with a flat piece of .5"X2.5"X8" plex, float glass, tile etc. that's flat enough will serve you well. You can source this all on E-Bay or Amazon etc. with just a little effort and have a system once learned that will produce very keen edges. Follow w/a quality strop and your set to begin.
I read that you had unsatisfactory experience w/film before, but it sounds like you had a poor base medium and perhaps adhesive backed film.
Lots of members experience here trying to learn to hone well on a budget, my advice, don't make the same mistakes just purchase what works and then learn how to use it.
Keep us apprised of your progress so we can help.

 

[Alum of Potash]

For an apparent budget of 25-50 USD, It would be helpful to know the state of your straight razor(s) and what you intend to do with it (them). Personally, I wouldn't spend money on either of the two options as linked.

 

[rbscebu]

@Staggers and Jags if choosing between just those two options, and knowing what I know now, I would choose the synthetic whetstones. What turns me off your lapping film option is float glass and the PSA on the films.

Float glass is not flat unless it has been specially ground flat. Plate glass is flat. That being said, glass is relatively heavy and easily broken if dropped. The mass of the substrate comes into play because you should be (at lease initially) honing in-hand.

PSA is not needed and only adds to your problems when attaching it to the glass due to contaminates getting under the film. Lapping film does not need adhesive on a cast acrylic substrate. Water tension is quite sufficient to hold it in place. I have not had experience with a float glass substrate so cannot comment.

Your synthetic whetstones option will work. I use the same but I have added a synthetic 10k stone. The down side with those is that they need lapping flat very often, like before each honing session with a single SR and sometimes even within the same honing session. Lapping flat is not difficult and nor does it take long, however it is an inconvenience. To lap a whetstone flat, you will need a flat 300mm square marble tile and sheets of W&D sandpaper, preferably at least one sheet for each whetstone grit.

Rather than your options of the whetstones or the float glass lapping films, you would be much better off with getting a single piece of cast acrylic 300mm x 75mm x 25mm to 35mm thick and a set of lapping film sheets. That will cost you about the same as your listed options. The single piece of acrylic can be used for all different non-PSA backed lapping film grades. All you need to know about acrylic substrate and using lapping film can be found here:

Lapping film, try it.

I got some lapping film in a PIF a while ago, 4/8/16/30 equivalent grits. I use them on top of a lapped 8x3" hone, but any flat surface will do. They may not offer the sexy smooth feel of a big dollar hone, but man they are effective, and the edges off the "30k" film is not that unlike a $350...

www.badgerandblade.com

I learnt my basic honing technique on acrylic hand held with lapping film. I then added diamond pasted balsa strop progressions (0.5μm, 0.25μm and 0.1μm) also hand held.

As the number of SR's I was honing grew and my honing skill developed, I dropped the acrylic/films out to save cost and replaced them with the synthetic whetstones, first hand held but now on-bench. I was going through a set of lapping film sheets (each cut into three pieces) about every 5 to 10 SR's honed.

I have honed a little over 60 SR's now, not a lot. They only need honing once as they are all maintained on a 0.1μm pasted balsa strop after each shave. I shave with a new crisp edge every shave.

 

[rbscebu]

As you are starting out on your honing journey, this thread may be of benefit to you:

Setting the Bevel with the Burr Method

The Burr Method of honing is perhaps the method of setting a bevel that is most easily understood perfectly. It is the most sure and positive means of setting a bevel, as the method itself is the proof. There is no guessing and very little subjectivity. It is fairly fast, and easy to learn for a...

www.badgerandblade.com

To take your SR edges to the next level, you should also consider diamond pasted balsa strops. Balsa strops will not refresh a dull edge. All they do is further refine an already shave-ready edge, off at least an 8k or preferably higher grit. Everything you need to know about using pasted balsa strops is here:

How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop

Having gone into some detail when asked or prompted in many threads, I thought I should comprehensively lay out the method in a separate thread, for reference. Thing 1. The Balsa Strop. Buy 3" wide balsa. Best to buy a 36" length. It is cheaper. Hobby Hut, Hobby Lobby, and other brick and...

www.badgerandblade.com

This post and my previous post above, should set you up for honing at least your first 10 or so SR's.

 

[alex1921]

There is a saying back where I was born. I paraphrase, we ain't rich to be able to afford cheap stuff.
Buy quality, you buy once.

 

[Empire straights]

There is a saying back where I was born. I paraphrase, we ain't rich to be able to afford cheap stuff.
Buy quality, you buy once.

I wholly subscribe to this philosophy as well. I usually buy vintage stones and I do my best to only buy heirloom quality stones because though they cost more initially my family will get a minimum of 3 generations of use from my stones. Western society(especially America) has become a single serve/ disposable society and it makes me sick. I try not to buy things(mainly tools, furniture, ect..) younger than my parents and I expect them to last longer than my grandkids/ great grandkids. Cheap things, made in labor camps(sometimes by kids) on the other side of the world are cheap because they're made to be thrown away.

 

[Frank Shaves]

There is a saying back where I was born. I paraphrase, we ain't rich to be able to afford cheap stuff.
Buy quality, you buy once.

I will be more explicit. Spend money on things you will use. Spending money on things you don't use is complete waste.

 

[bluesman 7]

I recently posted this in the wrong thread;

I was thinking that film was the only way with minimal investment.

I just remembered that Joe Calton had developed a method using a 1k/6k King combo and CrOx. Based on the fact that a lot of people already had that stone for knife sharpening and it could be purchased for ~$30. The idea was for knife people to be able to try out straight shaving at minimal investment.

I did a razor using that method just to see what I could do with it and got a very usable edge.

If you ever purchase better stones the 1/6 King will probably end up on a shelf, but...

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Buy non-PSA film. PSA is a PIA and you don’t need it. Glass tiles are $3-4 and can easily be lapped flat on a sheet of 220 wet & dry.

And buy a $20 king 1k. it will save you a lot of hassle and film. Set the bevel on a 1k, then go to film.

 

[bluesman 7]

Though I've never tried this, my understanding is that the PSA can be removed from the film with simple green or other solvent. This would be a solution to film with contaminated PSA too.

 

[Frank Shaves]

I just realized that I have a King 1000/6000 sitting in a box.

@Staggers and Jags, PM me if you want the stone for free.

 

[Staggers and Jags]

I just realized that I have a King 1000/6000 sitting in a box.

@Staggers and Jags, PM me if you want the stone for free.

i dmed you. that would be a huge help to me if you could do that

 

[Alum of Potash]

I just realized that I have a King 1000/6000 sitting in a box.

@Staggers and Jags, PM me if you want the stone for free.

Can't argue with that. Good show, Frank Shaves. That combo hone and a strop pasted red will get you there in the short run. Use some 320x wet/dry sandpaper wet on a thick (1/4") piece of plate glass to lap the combo hone as needed. The 320x wet/dry sandpaper could even be used wet on the plate glass to hone out visible chips if we are talking junker razors.