Which better way to improve my honing.

[traps38]

Well guys i have another question for you as you have always given me the right answer.

I have gotten honed razors from Jarod(superior shave) Larry(whipped dog) and Phil(classic edge).

They shave amazing.

If i have to classify them as 10 on 10, the ones that i have started to hone,and have gotten pretty ok with them, i would rate as 8 on 10.

I use: Naniwa 1000 to set the bevel,then i go to Norton 4000/8000 combo.

Now my question is:

In order to get them closer to a 10 on 10 like the pros, do you think i need to keep practicing my technique to get better or should i purchase the Naniwa 12000 grit?

Thank you for any answer you may have.

 

[jpcwon]

Well....Some will tell you that the shave off of the Norton 8k is not acceptable, and some will tell you it will be just fine so it's up for you to decide. I personally shaved off of the 8k for a while when I first started honing without incident. Once I started acquiring finishing stones though, I found it hard to go back to just the 8k as the edges I got from my coticule, c12k, naniwa 12k etc...were that much better...Now I prefer the mellow edge I get from my coticule over synthetics....

I say keep at it & you'll only get better...IMO you don't want to progress to a Naniwa 12k until you can get an acceptable shave off of the 8k...If you cane currently shave just fine off the 8k, then by all means try a finisher..

 

[pmaster]

Well, I'm in the same situation, wondering how much better the edges could be on the naniwa 12k. Let me know if you try it! lol

I considered ordering some lapping film to get a finer finish, but still haven't made my decision. If you look at lee valley, right now they have a free shipping offer if you order over $40, which is quite tempting since usually it adds easily 10-12$ (for a few slides of film).

 

[Wid]

If you are having good shaves off the 8K stone than a move to a higher grit can only help. A cheap way to find out is to get a piece of 1um film (as good a the Naniwa 12K imo) and give it a try.

If you want to send a razor that you honed out for an evaluation I'd be will to try your edge and give some honest feedback.

 

[pmaster]

This could be an easy check on lapping films for only a few $: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/3M-0-3-Micro...ltDomain_0&hash=item4cfe0d252b#ht_1269wt_1037

 

[Wid]

Get the 1um.

 

[gumbo]

Whatever you do, don't get a Thuringian. The last thing I need is another competitor in the marketplace. Get the 1um.

 

[Gamma]

Find out how Jarrod, Phil, and Larry's edges were done and try recreating their edges using the tools they use.

 

[Doc226]

Find out how Jarrod, Phil, and Larry's edges were done and try recreating their edges using the tools they use.

I know Jarrod uses coticules, Larry I believe finishes on a naniwa, no idea about Phil.

 

[daflorc]

I use: Naniwa 1000 to set the bevel,then i go to Norton 4000/8000 combo.
Now my question is:
In order to get them closer to a 10 on 10 like the pros, do you think i need to keep practicing my technique to get better or should i purchase the Naniwa 12000 grit?
Thank you for any answer you may have.

Here's the important questions:

Did you lap the hell out of both the 4k and the 8k sides, until both were smooth as butter and neither feels gritty when honing?

Halfway through your 4k strokes, do you go to water only and zero-pressure - and stay at that until you're done?

Is your razor especially light, especially heavy, a wedge, and do you tape the spine?

I suggest trying that honing routine, and put a fresh piece of tape on the spine before you get to the 8k.

You should be able to get a perfectly good and smooth shave from the 8k.

 

[traps38]

Guys your replies are all so helpful.

I have never used lapping film but that sounds so helpful,but need to learn how to lap on film.

I will ask Larry what he finishes with also.

I don't know how coticules work and which one i would need to buy.
(do coticules work the same as stones like low grits to high?)
(or would you know of a good video that teaches you how coticules work and how to use them?)

As the answer to one of the questions my 4000 norton stone did feel a little gritty after i lapped it.

I also saw the Lee valley special,so tempting to get a lot of things but they don't take paypal.

Thank you again guys.

 

[ACorazza]

Guys your replies are all so helpful.

I have never used lapping film but that sounds so helpful,but need to learn how to lap on film.

I will ask Larry what he finishes with also.

I don't know how coticules work and which one i would need to buy.
(do coticules work the same as stones like low grits to high?)
(or would you know of a good video that teaches you how coticules work and how to use them?)

As the answer to one of the questions my 4000 norton stone did feel a little gritty after i lapped it.

I also saw the Lee valley special,so tempting to get a lot of things but they don't take paypal.

Thank you again guys.

Coticules aren't like your Norton or Naniwa in the fact that they don't have a grit rating. I just started honing for a few months and a coticule is the only stone which I have. They are good from light bevel work all the way to finishing the blade and although some move to finer finishing stones afterwards, many myself included end at the coticule. I use mine to set the bevel but the bevel has already been shave ready before and I would want to try heavy bevel work as it might take a while. No coticule is the same, think of them as little puzzles, and they have a learning curve but if your willing to work at it you will be rewarded. Some cuticles are fast cutters, while others are slow cutters, and you don't know what you have until you use it and even then they can be tricky. That being said it is a very good stone, and if your having problems, such as I was, the kind people here will help you to work through them.

I have experienced Larry's edges as my first straight was a whippeddog sight half seen and it was very sharp, but I can't give an evaluation because my technique at the time was horrible and I have since had to move past his edge, but my coticules give me a great shave and you would almost no doubt see an improvement from what your used to shaving off the Norton 8000.

If you would like to read more about coticules, you can find some great information here and at coticule.be which is devoted to coticules. You can also watch videos of people honing with coticules on youtube, just search "coticule honing". Jarrod at TSS sells them and you cannot actually pick the exact stone you will receive by looking through the pictures on his website, otherwise check the b/s/t as you see them pop up often and sometimes the previous owner can give you feedback on it.

Good Luck with the search.

 

[traps38]

Coticules aren't like your Norton or Naniwa in the fact that they don't have a grit rating. I just started honing for a few months and a coticule is the only stone which I have. They are good from light bevel work all the way to finishing the blade and although some move to finer finishing stones afterwards, many myself included end at the coticule. I use mine to set the bevel but the bevel has already been shave ready before and I would want to try heavy bevel work as it might take a while. No coticule is the same, think of them as little puzzles, and they have a learning curve but if your willing to work at it you will be rewarded. Some cuticles are fast cutters, while others are slow cutters, and you don't know what you have until you use it and even then they can be tricky. That being said it is a very good stone, and if your having problems, such as I was, the kind people here will help you to work through them.

I have experienced Larry's edges as my first straight was a whippeddog sight half seen and it was very sharp, but I can't give an evaluation because my technique at the time was horrible and I have since had to move past his edge, but my coticules give me a great shave and you would almost no doubt see an improvement from what your used to shaving off the Norton 8000.

If you would like to read more about coticules, you can find some great information here and at coticule.be which is devoted to coticules. You can also watch videos of people honing with coticules on youtube, just search "coticule honing". Jarrod at TSS sells them and you cannot actually pick the exact stone you will receive by looking through the pictures on his website, otherwise check the b/s/t as you see them pop up often and sometimes the previous owner can give you feedback on it.

Good Luck with the search.

Thank you very much.

Your answer helped me a lot.

Time to check out videos.

 

[smalltank]

cocitule stone + oil on the stone IMO beats any stone on water and slurry on a coticule for sure...(except a jnat of course)

 

[traps38]

Larry at whipped dog recommended a Chinese water stone(barbers hone) that is equal to 12000 grit a little cheaper for me also.

Does anyone know where i can get one here in Canada?

Would this one do:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Chinese-...190?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a61a45e66

 

[ACorazza]

Thank you very much.

Your answer helped me a lot.

Time to check out videos.

No problem. I'm just passing on some of the things that I have learned over the last few months on these forums and my own personal experience. There are plenty of great and helpful people around here and I'm sure they'll help you just like they helped me with whichever route you choose.

 

[daflorc]

I've heard from many people that although chinese water stones do work, they are ridiculously slow cutters. Go with this setup, and you can try three fine finishers for a steal.

 

[pmaster]

Whichever way you go, keep us posted, I'm interested in hearing if you see a big (or small) difference by adding a new stone after the Norton 8k.

 

[traps38]

Whichever way you go, keep us posted, I'm interested in hearing if you see a big (or small) difference by adding a new stone after the Norton 8k.

I ordered a Chinese 12k stone as it was the cheapest way to go and see if it does anything for me.
I have heard a lot it is very slow but i am never in a rush it will make me practice with my honing at the same time.

On a side note i started to hone a Wedge like razor.
That is causing me extreme problems trying to get a bevel.
Getting a wedge ready is gonna be a task in itself.

 

[jpcwon]

I ordered a Chinese 12k stone as it was the cheapest way to go and see if it does anything for me.

I think you'll find that the edges are very nice from the Chinese 12k. I have bought & sold may different finishers, but the Chinese 12k is one that I always kept as I really like the edge I get from it. Yes it is slow, but for me this is not a problem as I enjoy honing anyway!