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Where is the Tallow?!

This is just a vegan soap rating. I have always rated this company highly. And the beginnings of using their products go back to the times of RFN. You yourself admitted that not everyone is satisfied with the new formula. You have to wait until the vegan soap itself will sell and whether it will achieve the same results as tallow soap.
 
This is just a vegan soap rating. I have always rated this company highly. And the beginnings of using their products go back to the times of RFN. You yourself admitted that not everyone is satisfied with the new formula. You have to wait until the vegan soap itself will sell and whether it will achieve the same results as tallow soap.

Ah, I see. The way you phrased it, it sounded like you may have been saying that you would prefer to buy other 'vegan' soap offerings instead of the non-tallow Tabac by virtue of those soaps being made by companies that are 'better' in some way. I wondered whether there might be something about the Mäurer & Wirtz company you disliked.

With respect to the new formula, I decided to just go ahead and try it myself. In my hands, the soap has performed really well. These are early impressions of course, but I use a number of other 'vegan' soaps fairly regularly and, for me, the new Tabac held its own admirably. I'd happily keep it in rotation alongside my perennial favourites like SV and Haslinger; and truthfully, I think it performs better for me than PdP, Catie's Bubbles, and even MdC (MdC has never wowed me though).

However, comparing it to the tallow-based Tabac is harder for a few reasons. One relates to the new formula being such a distinctly different product in terms of the chemical/mechanical characteristics of the soap. The lather looks different, feels different, and requires a different approach to bring it to it optimal consistency. When I try lathering the new Tabac exactly same way as I build lather with the old Tabac, the results are a bit lackluster -- dialing it in requires a different set of conditions to get it right. A few other members here are reporting similar findings (if I'm reading things correctly): for example here (compare to earlier attempts) and here, both in the same thread. Put differently, it's become more of an apples to oranges comparison than many were hoping for, and I suspect that's getting reflected in some of the early reviews -- possibly a combination of bias along with the usual YMMV associated with products that are different. Many of us loved the original Tabac (myself included) and the thought of it being discontinued has evoked something of an emotional response that may be colouring our impressions. I concluded in a previous review: "if you're looking for something that looks, feels and smells like Tabac, you may be disappointed because I don't think you'll find that here" and I still think that is more or less true: new Tabac isn't a clone of it's predecessor, it is a completely different product (my review was essentially in two parts, found here and here). Lastly, there are some who just prefer tallow-based soaps period. I see where they're coming from in that I do think I can detect a certain inherent quality to tallow soaps that doesn't seem to be present in non-tallow offerings. I don't think that quality necessarily makes tallow soaps "better" in terms of real performance (slickness, cushion, etc.), but for those who really enjoy having that quality in a soap, few if any 'vegan' substitutes will likely pass muster. That's a really personal factor though.

Here is where I'll make a point that is provocative but pure speculation. Had Mäurer & Wirtz opted instead to carry two lines of shaving soap -- keeping the old tallow version and introducing the new formula as a second offering (maybe placed in a blue box to signal that it's different) -- I wonder if people's reaction to the new Tabac would been different and perhaps more favourable overall. Cella took this approach when they released the new Extra Extra Bio formula and it has been very well-received. I recently tried it and agree it's a great soap. But imagine if they had instead discontinued the original Cella at the same time -- would reception of the new product by longtime Cella fans have been quite so warm?
 
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JCinPA

The Lather Maestro
I wonder if people's reaction to the new Tabac would been different and perhaps more favourable overall. Cella took this approach when they released the new Extra Extra Bio formula and it has been very well-received. I recently tried it and agree it's a great soap. But imagine if they had instead discontinued the original Cella at the same time -- would reception of the new product by longtime Cella fans have been quite so warm?

Brilliant comment, that.
 
Pointless ramblings following. The reason to put up with the outdated scent of Tabac was the consistently exceptional shave. Don't get me wrong I do like the scent, especially the matured scent from an aged puck. But I also like Arko so the scent hoop isn't a hard one to jump through for me lacking a discerning palette. Anything that compromises the shave though diminishes the reason to hang with Tabac. Tabac was the reference standard for my soap acquisitions. YMMV.

The new formula is just fine (thank you @03Jarhead) and if the prior formulation had never existed I might consider the new veggie formula as a staple, but likely not. In the long haul Tabac is going to loose market share from this move and by looking at their website honestly I don't think they care. If they had kept the base and changed the scent I would move along with them. But the new Tabac isn't Tabac.. I'll say it again, I can't see woke vegans flocking to Tabac because they went veggie. But there is at least one old f@rt they lost. The love affair is over.
 
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Pointless ramblings following. The reason to put up with the outdated scent of Tabac was the consistently exceptional shave. Don't get me wrong I do like the scent, especially the matured scent from an aged puck. But I also like Arko so the scent hoop isn't a hard one to jump through for me lacking a discerning palette. Anything that compromises the shave though diminishes the reason to hang with Tabac. Tabac was the reference standard for my soap acquisitions. YMMV.

The new formula is just fine (thank you @03Jarhead) and if the prior formulation had never existed I might consider the new veggie formula as a staple, but likely not. In the long haul Tabac is going to loose market share from this move and by looking at their website honestly I don't think they care. If they had kept the base and changed the scent I would move along with them. But the new Tabac isn't Tabac.. I'll say it again, I can't see woke vegans flocking to Tabac because they went veggie. But there is at least one old f@rt they lost. The love affair is over.

Honestly, I totally see where you're coming from here... New Tabac isn't Tabac, and probably can't defencibly be called a reference standard anymore the way it's predecessor was. I enjoy the new version just like I enjoy the new Cella, but both are new products to the market and it's best if we approach them this way (my opinion). It's clear we lost something iconic when M&W switched formulas.
 

FarmerTan

"Self appointed king of Arkoland"
Pointless ramblings following. The reason to put up with the outdated scent of Tabac was the consistently exceptional shave. Don't get me wrong I do like the scent, especially the matured scent from an aged puck. But I also like Arko so the scent hoop isn't a hard one to jump through for me lacking a discerning palette. Anything that compromises the shave though diminishes the reason to hang with Tabac. Tabac was the reference standard for my soap acquisitions. YMMV.

The new formula is just fine (thank you @03Jarhead) and if the prior formulation had never existed I might consider the new veggie formula as a staple, but likely not. In the long haul Tabac is going to loose market share from this move and by looking at their website honestly I don't think they care. If they had kept the base and changed the scent I would move along with them. But the new Tabac isn't Tabac.. I'll say it again, I can't see woke vegans flocking to Tabac because they went veggie. But there is at least one old f@rt they lost. The love affair is over.
Yes, for old Smart Fellers like me, the best thing about Tabac was the formula. As good as anything I've tried. I got used to the smell, but never fell in love with it. But never hated it, because I used to love the smell of Granny's purse.

Tallow rules!
 

luvmysuper

My elbows leak
Staff member
M&W knows, and has had plenty of examples where you completely change the product, don't say anything, and people will still buy it. Either because they don't know, don't care, or have no choice in the matter.

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luvmysuper

My elbows leak
Staff member
It always amazes me that tallow is treated like a god! Most of the soaps and creams I like are all veg based.
I don't see a lot of guys dedicating their lives to tallow, or building tallow churches, or swearing to tallow to tell the truth, so I think it's probably some guys just like the properties of tallow soap.
The one thing that tallow does have in common with god is that merely mentioning it draws out tallow atheists who simply can't resist denigrating it! :lol1:
 

EclipseRedRing

I smell like a Christmas pudding
No vegan tabac sticks to this point from what I have seen. I also just recieved a couple this week and they are Tallow.
If they are not reformulated then I suspect the sticks will be allowed to quietly disappear and puck soap will be the only offering. There are, I keep reading, so many excellent tallow free soaps that it makes one wonder why the remaining tallow soaps cannot be left alone for those who enjoy them.
 
If they are not reformulated then I suspect the sticks will be allowed to quietly disappear and puck soap will be the only offering. There are, I keep reading, so many excellent tallow free soaps that it makes one wonder why the remaining tallow soaps cannot be left alone for those who enjoy them.
@SharpieB @EclipseRedRing @Dominic
Good news for you stick lovers...
I found the reformulated vegan version (refill) in a local store (Germany) earlier today.
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JCinPA

The Lather Maestro
It always amazes me that tallow is treated like a god! Most of the soaps and creams I like are all veg based.

While there are some who simply must have tallow, most posters here are fond of both tallow and non-tallow products. If it's a great product, it's a great product, regardless. I don't think this thread is (or was) intended to be a tallow vs non-tallow discussion. It was intended to be about the reformulation of Tabac and whether it was a good thing or not.

@luvmysuper has done a masterful job of explaining how changing any product can be an improvement or not so much, but if the change is radical, the old product simply ceases to exist, even if something still carries the same name going forward. Loved your gas can thing, Phil, having just had some recent experience with the new "improved" version. What a silly solution in search of a problem that was. :001_rolle

At any rate, I understand Haslinger used to use tallow, now they do not, but most folks here rave about the current Haslinger (myself included). It is still a very different product, but the change went well. In the case of Tabac it is also a very different product now, and while some seem to like it, it does not seem to have gone as well as it did for Haslinger.

So while some may believe this is a tallow vs non-tallow thread, it is really, IMO, simply about new vs old Tabac. It could have gone either way.
 

OldSaw

The wife's investment
…So while some may believe this is a tallow vs non-tallow thread, it is really, IMO, simply about new vs old Tabac. It could have gone either way.
That’s what I was thinking. However, I can see how easily we could get distracted.
 
Dunno if anyone still cares but the Shave Supply in California still has the old formula in stock

Thanks for the heads up. I can confirm that the sticks I received last week, and the stick refills received today, are the tallow version. I don't know about the pucks and the bowl - I thought the sticks were a safer bet. I can always cut/grate them into a bowl if I don't use them as a stick.
 
They claim to have tallow pucks in stock but nothing wrong with playing it safe.
Thanks for the heads up. I can confirm that the sticks I received last week, and the stick refills received today, are the tallow version. I don't know about the pucks and the bowl - I thought the sticks were a safer bet. I can always cut/grate them into a bowl if I don't use them as a stick.
 
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