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Where is the Tallow?!

All I know is that I have enough soap backlogged in my stash already, that a change in Tabac formula will not affect me for 8-10+ years.
That's my reaction too.
I was about to go on a buying spree, until I realized that I would not get to it until the 2030s. And that's assuming I don't touch my Arko stash.
@martym is looking like a bonafide clairvoyant.
 
You are correct. I should have said more rightly "reformulated". Sodium Tallowate as the first ingredient was replaced by Sodium Palmate as the first ingredient. The end result is the same, a formulation change made things worse.
Their website now lists Sodium Tallowate as first ingredient again, so maybe a lesson learned.
I think C&S's main problem was the (exclusive) use of sodium.

New formula: Sodium Palmate, Sodium Tallowate...Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palm Kernelate...

Old formula: Sodium Tallowate...Potassium Palmitate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Palmitate, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Cocoate, Potassium Cocoate...
 
Do a few double-blind tests before you guys freak out. I'd be curious to know how many people can actually tell the difference enough to pick the tallow soap based on performance alone. In my experience if you go into this with the belief that tallow-free automatically means worse, then that is exactly the conclusion you'll reach regardless of objective reality. You always tend to find what you’re looking for.
 
Although I like tallow soaps, it is not a criteria for a soap that performs well. However, having a significant percentage of stearic acid (whether from tallow or from vegetable sources) is critical It just seems to be easier from the standpoint of the soapmaker to make a great soap based on tallow than one without it.

Formula modifications can be beneficial or they can be detrimental depending upon the driving force behind the modifications. In the States, artisan soapmakers are often making modifications to their formulations. They do so based on customer feedback in an effort to improve the performance of the product. Thus, most of these modifications are beneficial. Most of the best soaps in my collection were not available until the past two years. The formulations are relatively new.

In the EU, many of the formula changes have been driven by regulatory agencies, not customer feedback. The regulations have restricted or prohibited some ingredients used for decades. Oakmoss has been a basic ingredient in perfumery for well over a century. However, in 2017 it was banned in the EU because it could cause skin rashes in a small percentage of the population.

I think the regulations concerning tallow were a result of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (mad cow disease) which has been related to a variant disease in humans. As far as I have been able to learn, tallow is not banned, but any tallow used for cosmetics has to be certified to be free of brain and nerve tissue that might be infected by BSE. That prevents a soapmaker from purchasing beef fat from the local butcher and rendering their own tallow for soapmaking.
 

JWCowboy

Probably not Al Bundy
Contributor
I noticed that West Coast Shaving was sold out of refills yesterday. FWIW they have a pic of the ingredients list and it shows the Tallow version....which probably explains why they are now sold out....
 

Hannah's Dad

I Can See Better Than Bigfoot.
Ambassador
Although I like tallow soaps, it is not a criteria for a soap that performs well. However, having a significant percentage of stearic acid (whether from tallow or from vegetable sources) is critical It just seems to be easier from the standpoint of the soapmaker to make a great soap based on tallow than one without it.

Formula modifications can be beneficial or they can be detrimental depending upon the driving force behind the modifications. In the States, artisan soapmakers are often making modifications to their formulations. They do so based on customer feedback in an effort to improve the performance of the product. Thus, most of these modifications are beneficial. Most of the best soaps in my collection were not available until the past two years. The formulations are relatively new.

In the EU, many of the formula changes have been driven by regulatory agencies, not customer feedback. The regulations have restricted or prohibited some ingredients used for decades. Oakmoss has been a basic ingredient in perfumery for well over a century. However, in 2017 it was banned in the EU because it could cause skin rashes in a small percentage of the population.

I think the regulations concerning tallow were a result of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (mad cow disease) which has been related to a variant disease in humans. As far as I have been able to learn, tallow is not banned, but any tallow used for cosmetics has to be certified to be free of brain and nerve tissue that might be infected by BSE. That prevents a soapmaker from purchasing beef fat from the local butcher and rendering their own tallow for soapmaking.
I’ve been ‘certified to be free of brain tissue’ since I got married.

1626969740749.jpeg
 

luvmysuper

Moderator Emeritus
Contributor
Do a few double-blind tests before you guys freak out. I'd be curious to know how many people can actually tell the difference enough to pick the tallow soap based on performance alone. In my experience if you go into this with the belief that tallow-free automatically means worse, then that is exactly the conclusion you'll reach regardless of objective reality. You always tend to find what you’re looking for.
It is certainly true that we tend to want to validate our own beliefs.
Having said that, as a Vendor, I'm sure you know that if the public perceives a change is detrimental, it's not good for business, whether or not that perception is based on fact or belief.
New and Improved Tabac may be a star with the new formulation, but Art of Shaving was a disaster.
Maurer & Wirtz will undoubtedly lose customers over the reformulation. Whether that is a bane or a boon to their business will depend upon how many others choose to look elsewhere versus the new users that they attract with the new formula.
Some still praise Haslinger after reformulation, others have said it isn't as good. I can't say because I have not purchased any of their product since the change. Not interested.
I own some vegetable based soaps. I just bought some more from MDC. The vegetable based soaps I own were vegetable based soaps from the time I returned to wet shaving, so it's no loss. For me, and likely for some others, it is a loss with the change in Tabac.
Some will stick with a soap out of brand loyalty no matter what they do to it short of making it downright horrible. As I said, hopefully for M&W, the gain in new makes up for the loss in old customers.
 
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...Oakmoss has been a basic ingredient in perfumery for well over a century. However, in 2017 it was banned in the EU because it could cause skin rashes in a small percentage of the population...
I thought that too, but oakmoss is still used in the EU (e.g. C&S No.88 edc/edp).
 
Indeed, even just ~5 yrs ago Tabac tweaked the soap proportions (e.g. more water, less titanium dioxide).

Also, Tabac's edc/edt now seems brighter compared to versions of years past.
 
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