What’s your “sure thing” progression?
- Thread starter IMightBeWrong
- Start date
12-5-3-1um lapping film
For years I used Norton 1K/4K/8K and then a finisher with quite dependable results. Of late, I've altered to a Spyderco UF for easily setting a bevel, Norton 8K, Naniwa 10K SS, then to a finisher.
Interesting. Are you able to remove a lot of steel with the UF? Did you lap yours at all or just factory flat/finish?
Thanks for asking. One side lapped on an old, worn DMT 325, then 800 grit wet/dry. The other side I left as it came. I put the UF in the top rack of the dishwasher to clean every so often. The UF doesn't take off very much metal, but enough to set a nice razor bevel. I like that it's used dry, it's very easy to use, works well on stainless, and the scratch pattern I'm getting is pretty even and not too deep. I also don't use much pressure. For blades in good shape, it seems to work well for me. I had the stone in the house for my pocket knives, and decided one day to give it a try on a razor I was refreshing. It worked quite nicely, so I've been using it for the last few years. If a blade needs some hard work/fixing, of course I'd go to a lower grit stone.
I seem to remember Spyderco confirming that the Fine stone was identical to the UF except for the finish on it (which I wanna say they said is lapped to 2000 FEPA on the UF). So you could alternately buy a fine and polish one side.
Thanks, hadn't known that. Perhaps, by trying to ensure it was flat I inadvertently decreased the fineness a bit- LOL. Looking at the Fine v UF they do look like the same ceramic material. I thought I read someplace that the the UF was 3 micron, while the Fine was 6 micron, but, perhaps not. I had the UF stone here, tried it and it worked, so I've gone with the flow. Am I alone in this? Anyone else try the Spyderco as a bevel setter?
I am confident in my La Petite Blanche with a slurry to set and refine the bevel and then a La Nouvella or other to further take the edge over. I prefer coticules as that is what I learned on B&B a decade ago and it has just stuck with me. I have so many hones that my sons will definitely fight over them once they start to shave. One is close. With my progression of the dilucot, all I have to do is watch the wave in front of the edge as I dilute and then bam sharp but smooth. Coticlues are preferred for me because I am focused on skin-friendly versus hyper sharp, which I value also.
I’ve seen it referenced a few places, but googling the first result that references it is a knife website called bladeforums. A member there mentions that a user “Sal” Who I would assume is affiliated with spiderco, has confirmed that the fine in the ultrafine are the same stone but finished to different levels.
I also want to say I remember Spyderco mentioning that the particles that actually make up all of their ceramic hones are closer to 25 µm, but the sintering process they use Creates a Hone where the original grit of the particles is less relevant.
I just sold my ultrafine a few months ago, otherwise I’d give it a try. I can’t say that I did when I owned it. I would expect it would require a lot of pressure to be able to do that, As I recall, The stone only cut about as fast as a 10K JIS in my use of it
I also want to say I remember Spyderco mentioning that the particles that actually make up all of their ceramic hones are closer to 25 µm, but the sintering process they use Creates a Hone where the original grit of the particles is less relevant.
I just sold my ultrafine a few months ago, otherwise I’d give it a try. I can’t say that I did when I owned it. I would expect it would require a lot of pressure to be able to do that, As I recall, The stone only cut about as fast as a 10K JIS in my use of it
"Sal" is Sale Glesser founder of Spyderco. Spyderco started in sharpening stuff and later moved to knives.
I have a UF and did spend a good bit of time finishing one side flatter than factory as the factory finish has obvious circular finishing marks in the surface. I really don’t recall if I used SIC W/D DMT or all of the above. I do recall it took some work to make it dead flat.
I got it at the time more focused on a potential as a modern barber hone for touch ups. I really don’t recall how well it did at that but do remember that the feel was really weird for me and maybe I didn’t love the feedback (lack of). But I spent more time flattening it than honing on it.....so maybe didn’t really learn the hone as well as I should.
I also KNOW that I didn’t flatten both sides
One side is factory with swirls. I’m now a little curious about digging it out and seeing what I can actually do with it at both ends, bevels and finishing.
I got it at the time more focused on a potential as a modern barber hone for touch ups. I really don’t recall how well it did at that but do remember that the feel was really weird for me and maybe I didn’t love the feedback (lack of). But I spent more time flattening it than honing on it.....so maybe didn’t really learn the hone as well as I should.
I also KNOW that I didn’t flatten both sides
One side is factory with swirls. I’m now a little curious about digging it out and seeing what I can actually do with it at both ends, bevels and finishing.
One honing progression that has never failed me in breaking back junkers with small visible chips has been the following:
Fine DMT > Suehiro 1k/3k combo > coticule (water only) > Welsh slate (sewing machine oil).
For touch-ups one works backwards into the progression as needed.
Fine DMT > Suehiro 1k/3k combo > coticule (water only) > Welsh slate (sewing machine oil).
For touch-ups one works backwards into the progression as needed.
It is an odd duck. You're right about the feedback, or lack of it. Ceramics always feel weird to me. I use it to reset the bevel on razors that are in need of a refresh. But, now I'll dig out a new GD and see about setting a bevel from scratch.I have a UF and did spend a good bit of time finishing one side flatter than factory as the factory finish has obvious circular finishing marks in the surface. I really don’t recall if I used SIC W/D DMT or all of the above. I do recall it took some work to make it dead flat.
I got it at the time more focused on a potential as a modern barber hone for touch ups. I really don’t recall how well it did at that but do remember that the feel was really weird for me and maybe I didn’t love the feedback (lack of). But I spent more time flattening it than honing on it.....so maybe didn’t really learn the hone as well as I should.
I also KNOW that I didn’t flatten both sides
A good shave, a bottle or two of Korbel Brut, and the kids spending the night at their Grandparents...
Sorry, I know it's off topic but I noticed the subject line and couldn't resist.
Resume talking amongst yourselves...
DCJ
Sorry, I know it's off topic but I noticed the subject line and couldn't resist.
Resume talking amongst yourselves...
DCJ
Lapping Stone: Atoma 400
Bevel: Shapton 1k
Polishing: Shapton 5k, 8k
Status Check on the Edge: Natural Yellow Lake Oil Stone (10k?)
Home Stretch Hone Stretch: Shapton 12k
Finisher: Some unknown brand, Chinese 15k ceramic
Post Honing: My basswood strops; CrOx, 0.25u diamond compound, FeOx, leather strop.
Bevel: Shapton 1k
Polishing: Shapton 5k, 8k
Status Check on the Edge: Natural Yellow Lake Oil Stone (10k?)
Home Stretch Hone Stretch: Shapton 12k
Finisher: Some unknown brand, Chinese 15k ceramic
Post Honing: My basswood strops; CrOx, 0.25u diamond compound, FeOx, leather strop.
You really need to try the diamond balsa progression after this. It takes the edge up several notches.
I will, some day. But I already have the best shaves without the balsa. I can live happily with lapping films only
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
@Gamma is correct. Here are some things that make any progression a ‘sure thing’, as much as it can be.
1. Knowing how to test for bevel set. You have to have a test, and it doesn’t matter which one, just that you’ve mastered it.
2. Knowing what common problems look like and having a means to observe them.
3. Knowing how to solve common problems like honing off a fin or false edge, chipping, overgrinds/frowns etc.
4. Knowing how to bias pressure during your stroke so that you hit all parts of the edge the same.
5. Knowing what a properly developed edge should look like, straight and even.
6. Knowing how to strop so that all the edge hits the strop and is well stropped.
If you can do these kinds of things, you can pretty much hone on anything and get at least decent results.
I rarely use this method but a 1k chosera, 3k and 8k naniwa ss, followed by 0.5 um diamond on felt works very well. Just not much fun...
Just curious- does a denim strop (denim specifically, not canvas / linen) fit anywhere in anyone’s “sure thing” honing process or “touch-up” or “light maintenance”?
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