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I have a question regarding the taping. When you use tape where it wasn't previously used, you'll get a double bevel right? So do you just keep going with the tape until you fix it? I would seem that you'd quickly wear through the tape you you would have to keep changing it?

I didn’t need to change the tape. Once a bevel was created on the 1K I jointed the edge, removed the tape and continued to hone. It takes very little to go from tape to no tape. I see folks making it into some big deal but honestly I’ve never seen as such.

On touch ups there’s no tape needed.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
I got these razors in today. First thing was the scales were sloppy loose which would have made stropping difficult.

I’m not going to critique someone else’s work. So I’ll just say what I did.

I went back to the basics and set both bevels, no tape was used before. I did use tape for the beginning (1K) but it was removed from 3K up to 12K.

Both razors honed up nice without much difficulty. Each took a nice edge, left one with a Naniwa 12k edge and the other is a Norton Black Arkansas edge. Each can be had to maintain an edge, Dans in the case of the Ark.

Did a test shave with both. Absolutely no tugging and the shave was fantastic.

I will return the razors ready to use, no stopping necessary on the first use.

View attachment 1624267
`Two BISMARCK Bismarcks! Sweet! Pretty decent condition, too! You are gonna enjoy shaving with them! I thought you meant Dovo Bismarck. Dovo bought the brand and kept making the same style, and it's every bit as good, but I just think the original Bismarck shoulderless razors have a lot more class, somehow.
 
`Two BISMARCK Bismarcks! Sweet! Pretty decent condition, too! You are gonna enjoy shaving with them! I thought you meant Dovo Bismarck. Dovo bought the brand and kept making the same style, and it's every bit as good, but I just think the original Bismarck shoulderless razors have a lot more class, somehow.
I don't even know where I got them actually. I have a few razors like that. I guess ignorance is bliss!
 
“I have a question regarding the taping. When you use tape where it wasn't previously used, you'll get a double bevel right? So do you just keep going with the tape until you fix it? I would seem that you'd quickly wear through the tape you would have to keep changing it”

Nothing wrong with a Micro or Double bevel. in some cased it is a fix for a problematic edge. Tape will make a steeper bevel by about 1 degree but can be removed completely in about 20-30 mid grit laps.

If you are new to honing, use tape until you master honing, (can get repeatable, good shaving edges). Then decide if you want to continue to hone with tape, especially with nice razors. Many a razor has been trashed by a new honer, were tape would have saved the razor until the owner had perfected his technique.

If a razor was honed with and without tape, by a competent honer, I doubt anyone could tell the difference in a blind shave test.
A layer of inexpensive Kapton over electrical tape will make the tape last longer.
 
“I have a question regarding the taping. When you use tape where it wasn't previously used, you'll get a double bevel right? So do you just keep going with the tape until you fix it? I would seem that you'd quickly wear through the tape you would have to keep changing it”

Nothing wrong with a Micro or Double bevel. in some cased it is a fix for a problematic edge. Tape will make a steeper bevel by about 1 degree but can be removed completely in about 20-30 mid grit laps.

If you are new to honing, use tape until you master honing, (can get repeatable, good shaving edges). Then decide if you want to continue to hone with tape, especially with nice razors. Many a razor has been trashed by a new honer, were tape would have saved the razor until the owner had perfected his technique.

If a razor was honed with and without tape, by a competent honer, I doubt anyone could tell the difference in a blind shave test.
A layer of inexpensive Kapton over electrical tape will make the tape last longer.

I have a few razors with natural primary bevels of less than 15 degrees.
I hone those all the way out to 0.1 micron diamond pasted balsa
and then I tape up the spines to about 16 degrees
and then just a very few passes on a finisher
and then strop.

In such cases, I think that a very small secondary bevel is the right way to go.
 
I ask the taping question because there's a Dovo I have that I did a number on while trying to hone it. Was probably my least favorite and cheapest in the bunch (may have gotten it for like $50). But anyway although I realize that in learning to hone you're going to kill a razor or two. I did tape it, but if course in the process of trying to set the bevel I went through the tape. I since wised up and bought a few Gold Dollar 66's for like 15 bucks. I did a nice job of the first Gold Dollar it tree tops so I will be trying it tomorrow. I will also be using the two that @Wid helped me out with
 
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I honed one of my Gold Dollars the other day and seemed to get it pretty sharp (passed HHT), but it was pretty tuggy when I shaved with it today. I stopped and used a different razor because I didn't want to take my face off.

I was thinking maybe 50-60 strokes on extra fine (using DMT DuoSharp stones) and maybe another 50-60 on a Naniwa 12,000 and give it another shot?

If it passes HHT, I should be fairly close - at least in the ballpark. Thoughts?
 
I honed one of my Gold Dollars the other day and seemed to get it pretty sharp (passed HHT), but it was pretty tuggy when I shaved with it today. I stopped and used a different razor because I didn't want to take my face off.

I was thinking maybe 50-60 strokes on extra fine (using DMT DuoSharp stones) and maybe another 50-60 on a Naniwa 12,000 and give it another shot?

If it passes HHT, I should be fairly close - at least in the ballpark. Thoughts?
First thought: counting strokes will not get you to a particular result. You need to have a good test, and hone until it passes that test, however many strokes that takes. Magnification, and looking for a shiny area of the edge, head-on, in good light, can be very helpful in deciding what sort of stone to use.

Second thought: did the blade pass HHT everywhere along the blade? It only takes one dull area to give you a bad shave experience.

If I were in your position, and deprived of my magnification tools, I'd likely go back to the bevel set, because that behavior suggests that something is not quite right. Most problems can be traced to an imperfect bevel set, so it's the way to bet.
 
So, as you have found, hair test are unreliable. Your razor may have been sharp enough to cut a single hair at that one point, but not the whole edge. Hair tests are just highway signs, they can tell you if you are headed in the right direction, but do not tell you how close you are to your destination.

BTW, did it cut the hair on the first attempt, and every time. If you try a hair test and it does not cut, but cuts on the second attempt, that is a fail…

Look straight down on the edge, if you see any shiny reflections, the bevels are not meeting. Most likely the bevels are not fully set. Micro chips and micro rolled edges are what folks feel as “tuggy”.

Post a photo of the razor, both sides for better advise. Gold Dollars are notorious for having other issues that must be corrected, before honing.

Diamond plates are for lapping stones and edge correction. Honing on lapping plates, especially for new honers cut deep and will just make more work for you, as you will have to remove, all the deep stria.
 
I will try to post some images of the blade. I do have some norton stones and some lapping film of various grits. On the DMT stones I have coarse, fine, and extra fine. I started on the coarse, then fine, then extra fine.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
The DMT coarse and fine are great when you want to eat a lot of steel in a hurry. Otherwise, not particularly useful in honing. And the extra fine is pretty iffy though they are very nice for pocketknives or work knives. Ofteh there will be diamond particles standing proud of the rest, and you need to knock them down before you can really get best use out of them on razors. Hone a big SS chef knife or two, and your DMT EF will do a little better job. I use diamond plates only for major repair jobs, myself.

If you have the RIGHT lapping film, and a GOOD plate, then film is 100x better than DMT and a bunch of random mixed bag stones. Once you KNOW KNOW KNOW POSITIVELY 100% KNOW that the bevel is set, you can go 9µ, 3µ, and 1µ on the lapping film for a pretty good edge. Read the lapping film thread from beginning to end, if you expect to go into this with a good understanding of how to get good results with film. Random technique will only give you random results.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
@JoeScho, I don't know your SR honing experience (knife sharpening experience doesn't count). If you are relatively new to SR honing, I strongly recommend that you start your learning using lapping films (setup cost about US$50) and follow the instructions in this thread to the letter. What you learn from honing with lapping films will carry over very well into honing on synthetic/natural whetstones.

Once you are getting consistently very good edges of your lapping film progression, I recommend that you add finishing on diamond pasted balsa (setup cost about US$50). Diamond pasted balsa use is covered in this thread. You will then be getting about the keenest edge possible on your SR(s).

Honing on whetstones may give you a more comfortable edge (after you learn how to use each stone) but often there can be a drop-off in keenness to achieve that comfort. Some can accept this drop-off. Others prefer keenness over comfort.

My experience has been:
  1. First learnt on lapping films. Got a good shave-ready edge second go (I'm a slow learner).
  2. Moved on to diamond pasted balsa. Noticeable improvement after first go. Three or more goes and I was getting the keenest edges I have ever experienced, and still do.
  3. Tried synthetic whetstones. These gave me edges back to the "good" standard. I now still use my synthetic whetstones for geometry correction, bevel-set and initial refining.
  4. Natural whetstones were my most recent try. I do not use them for geometry correction or bevel-set - too expensive. They can, once learnt, give very good edges (but not the keenest) with more comfort.
As I developed my SR shaving technique with diamond pasted balsa strop edges, that is what I still prefer.
 
Random technique will only give you random results.

Boy that's so true that should be on a t-shirt. Random technique also confuses the hell out me.

I do have both 1 and 3 micron sheets from Thorlabs. I also have Norton 1k,4k,and 8k stones and a 12k Naniwa stone. I will re-read the lapping film thread.

It seems that I may need the 9 micron too.
 
@JoeScho, I don't know your SR honing experience (knife sharpening experience doesn't count). If you are relatively new to SR honing, I strongly recommend that you start your learning using lapping films (setup cost about US$50) and follow the instructions in this thread to the letter. What you learn from honing with lapping films will carry over very well into honing on synthetic/natural whetstones.

Once you are getting consistently very good edges of your lapping film progression, I recommend that you add finishing on diamond pasted balsa (setup cost about US$50). Diamond pasted balsa use is covered in this thread. You will then be getting about the keenest edge possible on your SR(s).

Honing on whetstones may give you a more comfortable edge (after you learn how to use each stone) but often there can be a drop-off in keenness to achieve that comfort. Some can accept this drop-off. Others prefer keenness over comfort.

My experience has been:
  1. First learnt on lapping films. Got a good shave-ready edge second go (I'm a slow learner).
  2. Moved on to diamond pasted balsa. Noticeable improvement after first go. Three or more goes and I was getting the keenest edges I have ever experienced, and still do.
  3. Tried synthetic whetstones. These gave me edges back to the "good" standard. I now still use my synthetic whetstones for geometry correction, bevel-set and initial refining.
  4. Natural whetstones were my most recent try. I do not use them for geometry correction or bevel-set - too expensive. They can, once learnt, give very good edges (but not the keenest) with more comfort.
As I developed my SR shaving technique with diamond pasted balsa strop edges, that is what I still prefer.
I will familiarize myself again with the lapping films and stay away from the stones. I'm OK at putting an edge on woodturning tools but I'm finding that determining when the bevel is set is the hardest part. I really thought I nailed that gold dollar. One of your posts actually gave me a good idea regarding the HHT as I don't have much arm hair but I read one of your posts saying you use your chest hair. My Gold Dollar was able to top my chest hair so I thought I had it. Went to fine and extra fine on the dmt stones, then stropped linen then stropped leather. Today I took one stroke down my cheek and said no way and pulled out a Wacker to finish.

thank you all for your thoughts. I will re-read the lapping film thread and keep the thoughts coming!
 
Boy that's so true that should be on a t-shirt. Random technique also confuses the hell out me.

I do have both 1 and 3 micron sheets from Thorlabs. I also have Norton 1k,4k,and 8k stones and a 12k Naniwa stone. I will re-read the lapping film thread.

It seems that I may need the 9 micron too.

The stones you have are sufficient. You need to learn how to set a bevel, first and foremost. That is the most important part of honing imo.
 
Well there's you problem. Just because you have a sharpening business doesn't mean you know diddly squat about straight razors. They are very specialist. Find someone here that advertises their services.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
...
thank you all for your thoughts. I will re-read the lapping film thread and keep the thoughts coming!
Take notes as you read. The instruction change through the thread as the Method is developed by the participants in the thread.

For bevel setting instructions, see here. A bevel can be properly set on a 1k grit stone (not a diamond plate). I use a 1k stone to get close to bevel-set and then go to a 3k stone for final bevel-set. You should be able to shave off a bevel set, maybe not very comfortably but at least a shave.
 
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I honed one of my Gold Dollars the other day and seemed to get it pretty sharp (passed HHT), but it was pretty tuggy when I shaved with it today. I stopped and used a different razor because I didn't want to take my face off.

I was thinking maybe 50-60 strokes on extra fine (using DMT DuoSharp stones) and maybe another 50-60 on a Naniwa 12,000 and give it another shot?

If it passes HHT, I should be fairly close - at least in the ballpark. Thoughts?
The only test that you should use is the shave test. Everything else is really rubbish.
 
The razors I received back from @Wid worked out quite well. I got a nice comfortable shave off the one I tried. No tugging, no burning, just a nice comfortable shave. I want to thank him for the help. He honed two of them for me, and I may not shave with the other one yet so that I can take a good look at it and use it as an example for my own honing.

Thank You!
 
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