What would you do?

[JoeScho]

When I was just starting back with a SR from a 5 year hiatus (about a month or so ago) I was both out of practice and green in honing. I never was quite able to get it exactly right (I still have weird issues honing). Anyway, so I took 3 of my straights and sent them out to be done professionally while I took one of my lesser straights that needed some work, and tried it myself so that I would have some good shavers while I worked on my own skills.

In the meantime, I was able to get my own honing to an acceptable shave. I received my 3 razors back, and I find that all 3 have a slight tug to them (my other razors seem better).

I'm certainly not thinking about emailing the person and saying hey you did a lousy job or anything like that. I'm just wondering whether I should give it a try myself with a few laps on a 12K myself, or find someone else to take a look at these.

My honing skills at this point are slightly suspect, but I've managed to take 2 razors that needed some work and made them decent shavers.

Its not my intention to bust this person or cause any issues - but on the other hand you live and learn - just hope those lessons aren't too expensive.

So I guess the question is - do I find one of you gents on here to have a look, or take a swing at it myself?

Thanks

 

[Christian1212]

Ask the person how they honed the razors. Will be important to know if they used tape or not as that will change what you will want to do. Do you know the 3 razors take good edges (curious what brand they are). Last thing is ask what their progression was and finisher. Maybe they gave you a not so great coticule edge. I don't think it hurts anything though letting the person know you were not happy with the edges - feedback is good for everyone.

 

[Wid]

I wouldn’t call anyone out on the forum. But if you’re not happy contact them and let it be known.

You pay shipping and I’d hone one for ya. I’m in the US

 

[JoeScho]

I wouldn’t call anyone out on the forum. But if you’re not happy contact them and let it be known.

You pay shipping and I’d hone one for ya. I’m in the US

I do not think they're associated with the forum. This person has a sharpening business, but I'm not sure razors are their specialty. I may take you on it.

 

[Wid]

I do not think they're associated with the forum. This person has a sharpening business, but I'm not sure razors are their specialty. I may take you on it.

That’s not good if they are not a razor honer. Got a pic of one of them

 

[Kyle89]

Give it a few passes on the 12k and see what happens

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

“This person has a sharpening business, but I'm not sure razors are their specialty”

Well, there’s your problem…

Seriously, taking a razor to a ‘knife” shop is asking too much of the shop. The first question you should ask is, (does guy that is going to hone the razor, shave with a straight razor)?

Take Wid up on his generous offer, so you have a bench mark. Post pics of your other razors for better advice.

 

[Brutus]

I do not think they're associated with the forum. This person has a sharpening business, but I'm not sure razors are their specialty. I may take you on it.

That’s the thing.
Not everyone who takes money for honing straight razors is really proficient at it.
I am particularly suspect of what you call (steak and kitchen knives maybe??) “sharpening businesses”, as most of them may see a straight razor only once every blue moon and the person doing the honing probably doesn’t shave with one.

If you used to be proficient yourself and have recently managed to give two razors a decent edge, I would do it myself.

When doing so, I would go one or two steps back on the grit scale.
That is to say if your final stone has 12,000 grit, start with 5,000 or 7,000.


Hope this helps…


B.

 

[JoeScho]

Thanks guys. I may wake @Wid up on at least one of them. There's 2 identical Bismarks (one in red scales and one in black scales) and a faux pearl scaled Dovo. The pearl scaled one was never a great shaver for me. If I send that one to Wid, he may be able to tell me that yeah - its a dud or maybe it just needs a correct honing.

 

[rbscebu]

I remember @TheBeast in Slovakia had a similar experience early in his SR journey. He sent his Titan SR out to be honed by a local sharpener who had a very good reputation with knives. The SR was returned "sharp" but would just not shave.

@TheBeast thought that it must be his technique that was the problem. I then sent him one of my shave-ready SRs, a Comoy's of London. He then discovered it was the "professional " edge on the Titan that was the problem.

The Titan was returned to the sharpener who replied that it could not be further improved. It was then that @TheBeast bought the gear and taught himself to hone SRs. The rest is history.

 

[Eastcoast30]

I once had a well known professional sharpener send me a blade that tugged. When I notified him, he sent me a prepaid return label, returned the razor with an excellent edge and threw in a free puck of soap. But to have three razors returned, and all three tugged, that person is not a professional honemeister.

 

[TheBeast]

Yeah I found the only guy that had a listing online for honing in my country. He was honing Gold Dollars and Titans for about 20-30€.

I bought a Titan from him, shave ready, to try and get a feel for SR shaving under 50€. It was terrible.

I then bought a full gear set for honing SRs. I got a decent shaver in like 3 days, only because I was wanted my edge to shave off the 1k, which it didn't. If I refined the bevel on the 3k sooner, I would have learned to hone in about a day or two. I wasn't satisfied my edge and I gave up honing for a time, used a shavette to catch up with my shaving technique and moved on.

Few months later I honed a Gold dollar to a very Nice shaver in three days, while posting on the forum with microscope pictures and following advice given to me here.

Few weeks after that, I picked Up a vintage and it shaves like a dream, took me an hour to hone.

I found great satisfaction in being able to hone and enjoy my edges while shaving. I would do it again, I would do it in your situation. Sure, having an edge from @rbscebu gave me a goal, so having someone really good hone your razor is great. I just didn't want to have to send it out each time so I'm progressively closing in on an edge from an experienced honer.

 

[Brutus]

I found great satisfaction in being able to hone and enjoy my edges while shaving. I would do it again, I would do it in your situation. Sure, having an edge from @rbscebu gave me a goal, so having someone really good hone your razor is great. I just didn't want to have to send it out each time so I'm progressively closing in on an edge from an experienced honer.

It’s always good for a relative novice to have a reference point (or - to be more precise - well honed reference razor) to establish what is achievable and what isn’t.
It makes it easy to recognize where one stands in respect of honing.



B.

 

[Legion]

I do not think they're associated with the forum. This person has a sharpening business, but I'm not sure razors are their specialty. I may take you on it.

This is the issue right here. Razors are very niche. A person who is normally sharpening knives, scissors etc does not necessarily have a clue, or the tools to deal with razors.

First thing I would do is get in touch with them and ask precisely what they used to finish the razor. Let us know what they say.

I’ve heard too many stories of “professionals” damaging good razors with incorrect honing techniques.

In the meantime, take one of the three razors and see if you can improve it yourself. If you can then tackle the other two.

 

[Gamma]

What would I do?
I'd hone it. If I had hones, and a razor to hone, I mean - why send it out?
I am not a fan of comparing to others work. I strive to compare my work today, to my work yesterday.
Nothing wrong with sending stuff out, of course. Just sayin', if I want to progress, I gotta work at it. I've always felt my own efforts are my best benchmarks.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I do not think they're associated with the forum. This person has a sharpening business, but I'm not sure razors are their specialty. I may take you on it.

Never trust someone who does not shave with a straight razor daily, to hone yours. That is a good rule to live by.

My advice, since @Wid offered, is to take him up on his offer. Let him do one of your razors and compare it to the others. I would bet money, even without having seen his work, that it will be an improvement. Members here strive to do good, to help new members, to spread knowledge, and to uphold their own reputations. Honing well is a skill that most of us take some pride in.

Meanwhile, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money to get the gear you need to put a decent edge or even a magnificent edge on a razor, and believe it or not, it doesn't have to take a lot of time to do it. So hone one of the others. The Bismarcks are sort of a known quality and seldom have issues that are not easily and simply resolved. I am assuming that they are Dovo Bismarcks, and not the old Bismarck brand, which made several different models in different formats. The form factor of the Dovo Bismarck is common to several Dovo models and also several other makers. Having no stabilizer greatly simplifies honing, though I must admit starting with one COULD foster bad honing habits.

When Wid hones the first one, he will be able to tell almost immediately if the razor was honed with tape or not. I do not use tape unless the geometry of the razor demands it. Some others use tape as a matter of course, and still others recommend that beginners always use tape regardless. I am not going to pour gasoline on the controversy other than to state that I personally do not use it and do not recommend it. Your choice. But you do need to know whether it was used or not, and even whether, since a knife sharpener guy honed it, the razor was honed with the spine elevated or not. If so then it will be just a little more work to restore the bevel to where it needs to be, but no biggie, it can be done.

There is a lot of information here on honing, many different styles, many different tool sets, and if you mix and match willy nilly, you will be frustrated for some time until you find your own path through much trial and error. You can short circuit all that confusion by simply sticking with ONE recommended tool set and the honing techniques recommended by ONE person for that tool set. Doesn't have to be my way but it should be SOMEONE'S way. Follow a path already trodden and follow it exactly, and you stand a very good chance of getting good results quite early on. In other words, do exactly what your chosen guru does and maybe you will quickly begin getting the results that he gets. Stick with it until you succeed, and only then consider trying other different stuff or leaning to your own understanding. That approach is more DOING than learning. Learning can take a long time. Honing your own razor by simple precise emulation takes maybe a day or two, your first time, if that. Remember, we learn from our mistakes. Since you don't want to make those mistakes with your first time at bat, that sort of rules out the whole "learning" thing for a while. First DO, then later on, learn, try, experiment, buy more rocks, lather, rinse, repeat.

The way I hone and recommend is a pretty tightly documented process called "The Method". It involves a progression of synthetic stones or a progression of lapping film on a very thick acrylic plate, with the film being somewhat easier and much cheaper. The end result, at either the 12k synthetic stone (Naniwa Superstones recommended) or 1µ lapping film, can deliver a pretty good shave. But there is more, a properly prepared pasted balsa progression, that refines the edge to an almost inconceivably sharp one that if handled properly, gives a reasonably comfortable and very easy shave. The catch is that there is a lot of reading, because the threads are quite long, and the process was developed over several years by several of us. The other catch is to get the results I am talking about, you must be willing to follow The Method dogmatically, with exact duplication of every step, no matter how unimportant it might seem, and not even consider substitutions, omissions, or additions of your own. Most guys who go the whole nine yards get stunning results by their second attempt. If you are the type to ask, "well, what if I use THIS instead of THAT?", then you are already defeating yourself with your admirable curiousity, but such intellectual exploration will retard your progress greatly, in the short term.

Regardless of what honing style you adopt, I urge you to purchase one very important thing: a Belomo 10x Triplet loupe. It is hands down the best for this. There are other optics that can be used, but none beat the Belomo 10x for honing. 20x? Yes there is that one and honestly it sucks for razors, because the focal length is very short and you risk contact with the edge. Cheapie USB microscope? yeah it can be used and it is great for taking pics to share and ask questions about, but the field of view and stand off distance of the Belomo 10x are superior for the actual honing. Carson Microbrite? Cheap, and popular, but the Belomo loupe is IMHO superior. If you get a Carson Microbrite anyway, get the magnetic clamp that clamps to your cel phone for taking pics, and STILL get the Belomo. It is a high grade optic that is used with a bit of stand-off from the delicate edge of your razor.

A Method-honed Dovo Bismarck is a truly great shaver, and The Method works well for most any hollowground razor that is anything more than a poor excuse for a real razor. Even a humble Gold Dollar responds well to Method honing.

Here is the link to the parent thread. Newbie Honing Compendium - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/newbie-honing-compendium.545370/

As I said, there are many ways to hone a razor and this is just one of them, but it is easy, relatively inexpensive, and handholds you like a paint by numbers kit, for very good beginner results.

 

[JoeScho]

Never trust someone who does not shave with a straight razor daily, to hone yours. That is a good rule to live by.

My advice, since @Wid offered, is to take him up on his offer. Let him do one of your razors and compare it to the others. I would bet money, even without having seen his work, that it will be an improvement. Members here strive to do good, to help new members, to spread knowledge, and to uphold their own reputations. Honing well is a skill that most of us take some pride in.

Meanwhile, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money to get the gear you need to put a decent edge or even a magnificent edge on a razor, and believe it or not, it doesn't have to take a lot of time to do it. So hone one of the others. The Bismarcks are sort of a known quality and seldom have issues that are not easily and simply resolved. I am assuming that they are Dovo Bismarcks, and not the old Bismarck brand, which made several different models in different formats. The form factor of the Dovo Bismarck is common to several Dovo models and also several other makers. Having no stabilizer greatly simplifies honing, though I must admit starting with one COULD foster bad honing habits.

When Wid hones the first one, he will be able to tell almost immediately if the razor was honed with tape or not. I do not use tape unless the geometry of the razor demands it. Some others use tape as a matter of course, and still others recommend that beginners always use tape regardless. I am not going to pour gasoline on the controversy other than to state that I personally do not use it and do not recommend it. Your choice. But you do need to know whether it was used or not, and even whether, since a knife sharpener guy honed it, the razor was honed with the spine elevated or not. If so then it will be just a little more work to restore the bevel to where it needs to be, but no biggie, it can be done.

There is a lot of information here on honing, many different styles, many different tool sets, and if you mix and match willy nilly, you will be frustrated for some time until you find your own path through much trial and error. You can short circuit all that confusion by simply sticking with ONE recommended tool set and the honing techniques recommended by ONE person for that tool set. Doesn't have to be my way but it should be SOMEONE'S way. Follow a path already trodden and follow it exactly, and you stand a very good chance of getting good results quite early on. In other words, do exactly what your chosen guru does and maybe you will quickly begin getting the results that he gets. Stick with it until you succeed, and only then consider trying other different stuff or leaning to your own understanding. That approach is more DOING than learning. Learning can take a long time. Honing your own razor by simple precise emulation takes maybe a day or two, your first time, if that. Remember, we learn from our mistakes. Since you don't want to make those mistakes with your first time at bat, that sort of rules out the whole "learning" thing for a while. First DO, then later on, learn, try, experiment, buy more rocks, lather, rinse, repeat.

The way I hone and recommend is a pretty tightly documented process called "The Method". It involves a progression of synthetic stones or a progression of lapping film on a very thick acrylic plate, with the film being somewhat easier and much cheaper. The end result, at either the 12k synthetic stone (Naniwa Superstones recommended) or 1µ lapping film, can deliver a pretty good shave. But there is more, a properly prepared pasted balsa progression, that refines the edge to an almost inconceivably sharp one that if handled properly, gives a reasonably comfortable and very easy shave. The catch is that there is a lot of reading, because the threads are quite long, and the process was developed over several years by several of us. The other catch is to get the results I am talking about, you must be willing to follow The Method dogmatically, with exact duplication of every step, no matter how unimportant it might seem, and not even consider substitutions, omissions, or additions of your own. Most guys who go the whole nine yards get stunning results by their second attempt. If you are the type to ask, "well, what if I use THIS instead of THAT?", then you are already defeating yourself with your admirable curiousity, but such intellectual exploration will retard your progress greatly, in the short term.

Regardless of what honing style you adopt, I urge you to purchase one very important thing: a Belomo 10x Triplet loupe. It is hands down the best for this. There are other optics that can be used, but none beat the Belomo 10x for honing. 20x? Yes there is that one and honestly it sucks for razors, because the focal length is very short and you risk contact with the edge. Cheapie USB microscope? yeah it can be used and it is great for taking pics to share and ask questions about, but the field of view and stand off distance of the Belomo 10x are superior for the actual honing. Carson Microbrite? Cheap, and popular, but the Belomo loupe is IMHO superior. If you get a Carson Microbrite anyway, get the magnetic clamp that clamps to your cel phone for taking pics, and STILL get the Belomo. It is a high grade optic that is used with a bit of stand-off from the delicate edge of your razor.

A Method-honed Dovo Bismarck is a truly great shaver, and The Method works well for most any hollowground razor that is anything more than a poor excuse for a real razor. Even a humble Gold Dollar responds well to Method honing.

Here is the link to the parent thread. Newbie Honing Compendium - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/newbie-honing-compendium.545370/

As I said, there are many ways to hone a razor and this is just one of them, but it is easy, relatively inexpensive, and handholds you like a paint by numbers kit, for very good beginner results.

Never trust someone who does not shave with a straight razor daily, to hone yours. That is a good rule to live by.

My advice, since @Wid offered, is to take him up on his offer. Let him do one of your razors and compare it to the others. I would bet money, even without having seen his work, that it will be an improvement. Members here strive to do good, to help new members, to spread knowledge, and to uphold their own reputations. Honing well is a skill that most of us take some pride in.

Meanwhile, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money to get the gear you need to put a decent edge or even a magnificent edge on a razor, and believe it or not, it doesn't have to take a lot of time to do it. So hone one of the others. The Bismarcks are sort of a known quality and seldom have issues that are not easily and simply resolved. I am assuming that they are Dovo Bismarcks, and not the old Bismarck brand, which made several different models in different formats. The form factor of the Dovo Bismarck is common to several Dovo models and also several other makers. Having no stabilizer greatly simplifies honing, though I must admit starting with one COULD foster bad honing habits.

When Wid hones the first one, he will be able to tell almost immediately if the razor was honed with tape or not. I do not use tape unless the geometry of the razor demands it. Some others use tape as a matter of course, and still others recommend that beginners always use tape regardless. I am not going to pour gasoline on the controversy other than to state that I personally do not use it and do not recommend it. Your choice. But you do need to know whether it was used or not, and even whether, since a knife sharpener guy honed it, the razor was honed with the spine elevated or not. If so then it will be just a little more work to restore the bevel to where it needs to be, but no biggie, it can be done.

There is a lot of information here on honing, many different styles, many different tool sets, and if you mix and match willy nilly, you will be frustrated for some time until you find your own path through much trial and error. You can short circuit all that confusion by simply sticking with ONE recommended tool set and the honing techniques recommended by ONE person for that tool set. Doesn't have to be my way but it should be SOMEONE'S way. Follow a path already trodden and follow it exactly, and you stand a very good chance of getting good results quite early on. In other words, do exactly what your chosen guru does and maybe you will quickly begin getting the results that he gets. Stick with it until you succeed, and only then consider trying other different stuff or leaning to your own understanding. That approach is more DOING than learning. Learning can take a long time. Honing your own razor by simple precise emulation takes maybe a day or two, your first time, if that. Remember, we learn from our mistakes. Since you don't want to make those mistakes with your first time at bat, that sort of rules out the whole "learning" thing for a while. First DO, then later on, learn, try, experiment, buy more rocks, lather, rinse, repeat.

The way I hone and recommend is a pretty tightly documented process called "The Method". It involves a progression of synthetic stones or a progression of lapping film on a very thick acrylic plate, with the film being somewhat easier and much cheaper. The end result, at either the 12k synthetic stone (Naniwa Superstones recommended) or 1µ lapping film, can deliver a pretty good shave. But there is more, a properly prepared pasted balsa progression, that refines the edge to an almost inconceivably sharp one that if handled properly, gives a reasonably comfortable and very easy shave. The catch is that there is a lot of reading, because the threads are quite long, and the process was developed over several years by several of us. The other catch is to get the results I am talking about, you must be willing to follow The Method dogmatically, with exact duplication of every step, no matter how unimportant it might seem, and not even consider substitutions, omissions, or additions of your own. Most guys who go the whole nine yards get stunning results by their second attempt. If you are the type to ask, "well, what if I use THIS instead of THAT?", then you are already defeating yourself with your admirable curiousity, but such intellectual exploration will retard your progress greatly, in the short term.

Regardless of what honing style you adopt, I urge you to purchase one very important thing: a Belomo 10x Triplet loupe. It is hands down the best for this. There are other optics that can be used, but none beat the Belomo 10x for honing. 20x? Yes there is that one and honestly it sucks for razors, because the focal length is very short and you risk contact with the edge. Cheapie USB microscope? yeah it can be used and it is great for taking pics to share and ask questions about, but the field of view and stand off distance of the Belomo 10x are superior for the actual honing. Carson Microbrite? Cheap, and popular, but the Belomo loupe is IMHO superior. If you get a Carson Microbrite anyway, get the magnetic clamp that clamps to your cel phone for taking pics, and STILL get the Belomo. It is a high grade optic that is used with a bit of stand-off from the delicate edge of your razor.

A Method-honed Dovo Bismarck is a truly great shaver, and The Method works well for most any hollowground razor that is anything more than a poor excuse for a real razor. Even a humble Gold Dollar responds well to Method honing.

Here is the link to the parent thread. Newbie Honing Compendium - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/newbie-honing-compendium.545370/

As I said, there are many ways to hone a razor and this is just one of them, but it is easy, relatively inexpensive, and handholds you like a paint by numbers kit, for very good beginner results.

I do have specific questions which I may move over to the honing area. Basically I've gotten good results but am not sure how.

 

[Wid]

I got these razors in today. First thing was the scales were sloppy loose which would have made stropping difficult.

I’m not going to critique someone else’s work. So I’ll just say what I did.

I went back to the basics and set both bevels, no tape was used before. I did use tape for the beginning (1K) but it was removed from 3K up to 12K.

Both razors honed up nice without much difficulty. Each took a nice edge, left one with a Naniwa 12k edge and the other is a Norton Black Arkansas edge. Each can be had to maintain an edge, Dans in the case of the Ark.

Did a test shave with both. Absolutely no tugging and the shave was fantastic.

I will return the razors ready to use, no stopping necessary on the first use.

 

[JoeScho]

I got these razors in today. First thing was the scales were sloppy loose which would have made stropping difficult.

I’m not going to critique someone else’s work. So I’ll just say what I did.

I went back to the basics and set both bevels, no tape was used before. I did use tape for the beginning (1K) but it was removed from 3K up to 12K.

Both razors honed up nice without much difficulty. Each took a nice edge, left one with a Naniwa 12k edge and the other is a Norton Black Arkansas edge. Each can be had to maintain an edge, Dans in the case of the Ark.

Did a test shave with both. Absolutely no tugging and the shave was fantastic.

I will return the razors ready to use, no stopping necessary on the first use.

View attachment 1624267

I very much appreciate the help!! I knew when I got them back they were suspect but I wasn't sure how much fixing they needed. The black one had a little slop in it but I was afraid of cracking the scales fixing the pin.

thanks @Wid for your help!?

 

[JoeScho]

I have a question regarding the taping. When you use tape where it wasn't previously used, you'll get a double bevel right? So do you just keep going with the tape until you fix it? I would seem that you'd quickly wear through the tape you you would have to keep changing it?