- Thread starter
- #21
Thank you
What works best to remove minor rust and polish a double edge razor a bit without damaging the finish?
- Thread starter 100pctFragranceFree
- Start date
JCinPA
The Lather Maestro
I would respectfully disagree with you, sir. Unfortunately, I was not able to locate a source for grit size comparison between toothpaste and Flitz, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
However, I am a firearms enthusiast and have three 1911 pistols worth over $3,000 each (yes, that's $9,000 total, I'm waaaaaay worse than suffering from razor AD). For the gun collectors trying to remove some discoloration (even a little rust) through a blued gun finish on a collector piece, they will all enthusiastically endorse Flitz, as I have, applied with a slightly damp microfiber cloth. NONE of them would let you have toothpaste in the same room with a high-end gun finish needing a little TLC.
Toothpaste will likely work faster, but Flitz is going to work slower and safer, IMO.
I agree with the Dawn and soft toothbrush suggestion. I vehemently disagree with your comment about Flitz vs toothpaste from almost 40 years in the firearms hobby. No gun collector would let toothpaste near a case-hardened gun, or a beautifully blued pistol or collector shotgun. They will all enthusiastically endorse Flitz.
That doesn't make me right, I know, and I'm disappointed I could not find comparable scientific measurements. But believe me, the gun collectors have several orders of magnitude more money invested in their favorite possessions, and none of them are advocating toothpaste on an old Parker side by side shotgun. They don't have a moment's hesitation recommending Flitz on them.
If any of my firearms enthusiast brothers are reading this, please back me up here. YOU know.
...no experience with gun TLC but I know a thing or two about toothpaste.
There are various grades of abrasive particles like thickening silica or abrasive silica, various helpers like e.g. sodium pyro phosphate as mechanical cleaning or "whitening" agents are used. There are almost as many recipes out there as toothpaste variants. Typically "sensitive" labelled brands are less abrasive than whitening (6 shades whiter in a week...). Some have chemical whitening agents like H2O2 aka hydrogen peroxide. I don't think there is a comparison chart out there that gets updated every time a "new and improved" variant hits the shelves. If it feels gritty between the fingers, it's for sure abrasive, if it feels completely smooth, most likely it won't do any harm. You can try to get scientific about it or use common sense
When I have the need for giving a a little TLC to any metal surface, I typically resort to "barkeepers friend" or "bon ami"[Hasn't cratched yet - slogan] which is similar. A smooth cloth, slightly wet and a little bit of the said powder and a tiny bit of time and elbow grease. But then I also don't inspect the surface with a magnifier afterwards. I just want it spotless clean by the eye, that's good enough for me. I'm not cleaning any collector grade items
YMMV
There are various grades of abrasive particles like thickening silica or abrasive silica, various helpers like e.g. sodium pyro phosphate as mechanical cleaning or "whitening" agents are used. There are almost as many recipes out there as toothpaste variants. Typically "sensitive" labelled brands are less abrasive than whitening (6 shades whiter in a week...). Some have chemical whitening agents like H2O2 aka hydrogen peroxide. I don't think there is a comparison chart out there that gets updated every time a "new and improved" variant hits the shelves. If it feels gritty between the fingers, it's for sure abrasive, if it feels completely smooth, most likely it won't do any harm. You can try to get scientific about it or use common sense
When I have the need for giving a a little TLC to any metal surface, I typically resort to "barkeepers friend" or "bon ami"[Hasn't cratched yet - slogan] which is similar. A smooth cloth, slightly wet and a little bit of the said powder and a tiny bit of time and elbow grease. But then I also don't inspect the surface with a magnifier afterwards. I just want it spotless clean by the eye, that's good enough for me. I'm not cleaning any collector grade items
YMMV
It depends on the finish.
If its a gold wash on a vintage Gillette or similar, use nothing but hot water and dish soap. Maybe the pad of your finger. That gold wash is very thin and extremely fragile. Once it starts to go, the rest will follow quickly. My words come from experience.
If its nickle, I've had great and virtually instant results with Bar Keepers Friend and water. No rubbing needed as there is an abrasive component in the powder. What does the work is, when water is added to the powder, it creates Oxalic acid. Its that acid that does the work and, in my experience, it doesnt touch nickle. If you have any small cuts on your hands, you are going to feel it.
A post war Tech below after a very light polish with Autosol. You can see the scratches. If I polished any further with a polishing compound I would have removed the frosting.
After, literally, 5 seconds with a tiny bit of BKF and a few drops of water while rubbing gently with the pad of my thumb.
The key word being gently.
On unplated metals, especially stainless but also brass, BKF works almost instantly. Use it as a cleaner, not a polishing compound. I've not found anything that cleans stainless better than BKF.
Do not, I repeat, do not, use it on gold plating.
My Gillette Regent Tech after two long hot water and Dawn soaks with scrubbing between with a toothbrush.
After 5 seconds with BKF.
I literally watched the gold wash dissolve so quickly I didnt have time to do anything about it and the razor was 4"s from a running tap.
Its a good thing Brass polishes nicely.
You can see my thread on that razor below.
Opinions Wanted on Restoration - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/opinions-wanted-on-restoration.525927/
BKF is a very powerful cleaner. It works very quickly and thoroughly. Because of that you need to be very careful what you use it on but, it sure does work.
If its a gold wash on a vintage Gillette or similar, use nothing but hot water and dish soap. Maybe the pad of your finger. That gold wash is very thin and extremely fragile. Once it starts to go, the rest will follow quickly. My words come from experience.
If its nickle, I've had great and virtually instant results with Bar Keepers Friend and water. No rubbing needed as there is an abrasive component in the powder. What does the work is, when water is added to the powder, it creates Oxalic acid. Its that acid that does the work and, in my experience, it doesnt touch nickle. If you have any small cuts on your hands, you are going to feel it.
A post war Tech below after a very light polish with Autosol. You can see the scratches. If I polished any further with a polishing compound I would have removed the frosting.
After, literally, 5 seconds with a tiny bit of BKF and a few drops of water while rubbing gently with the pad of my thumb.
The key word being gently.
On unplated metals, especially stainless but also brass, BKF works almost instantly. Use it as a cleaner, not a polishing compound. I've not found anything that cleans stainless better than BKF.
Do not, I repeat, do not, use it on gold plating.
My Gillette Regent Tech after two long hot water and Dawn soaks with scrubbing between with a toothbrush.
After 5 seconds with BKF.
I literally watched the gold wash dissolve so quickly I didnt have time to do anything about it and the razor was 4"s from a running tap.
Its a good thing Brass polishes nicely.
You can see my thread on that razor below.
Opinions Wanted on Restoration - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/opinions-wanted-on-restoration.525927/
BKF is a very powerful cleaner. It works very quickly and thoroughly. Because of that you need to be very careful what you use it on but, it sure does work.
- Thread starter
- #25
I like that bon ami is free of harsh chemicals. Definitely worth a try. Thanks....no experience with gun TLC but I know a thing or two about toothpaste.
There are various grades of abrasive particles like thickening silica or abrasive silica, various helpers like e.g. sodium pyro phosphate as mechanical cleaning or "whitening" agents are used. There are almost as many recipes out there as toothpaste variants. Typically "sensitive" labelled brands are less abrasive than whitening (6 shades whiter in a week...). Some have chemical whitening agents like H2O2 aka hydrogen peroxide. I don't think there is a comparison chart out there that gets updated every time a "new and improved" variant hits the shelves. If it feels gritty between the fingers, it's for sure abrasive, if it feels completely smooth, most likely it won't do any harm. You can try to get scientific about it or use common sense
When I have the need for giving a a little TLC to any metal surface, I typically resort to "barkeepers friend" or "bon ami"[Hasn't cratched yet - slogan] which is similar. A smooth cloth, slightly wet and a little bit of the said powder and a tiny bit of time and elbow grease. But then I also don't inspect the surface with a magnifier afterwards. I just want it spotless clean by the eye, that's good enough for me. I'm not cleaning any collector grade items
YMMV
- Thread starter
- #26
Not sure I get this. So you removed the finish with BKF and then somehow polished the razor to that beautiful finish? (What did you use to polish it?)
Plus: What are gold washed razors? And what are gold plated razors? I have a vintage Aristorcrat that's gold in color. Would that be considered gold washed? Gold plated? Also, how much water to you add to how much powder? And there is a soft cleanser available from them. Any opinion on that?
Scrubbing bubbles! Spray it on, air 2 minutes, rinse it off. Amazing stuff! Use it on vintage Gillette cases and razors. INSANE how well it works.
Theres a difference between cleaning and polishing. My polishing process on that razor took a few steps. First I wet sanded it and removed as many scratches as I could with 600grit wet sandpaper. Then I polished it with Autosol and a soft cloth to see where it was. Wet sanded again and then on my bench grinder with a buffing wheel and white jewellers rouge to get the larger areas, doors and safety bar. After that I used a Dremel and a cotton wheel with the same polishing compound but extreme care needs to be taken when using a Dremel. The polishing wheels are small so if you dont move the wheel around constantly at at the same rate you can have a wavy finish. A slower speed is better but its easy to become impatient and rush things. If you do, chances are you'll mess it up.
Also, when using any type of power tool to polish, its very easy to round over edges. It takes great care to polish things without distorting them.
When using wet sandpaper, you need to make sure you closely follow the original contours of the piece being sanded. Its also critical to, on a cap for example, to make each stroke the length or width of the cap. If you only focus on one smaller area, you'll make it concave and need to sand the entire cap evenly again to fix it. If theres one single scratch, say .0004" deep, .0004" needs to come off the entire cap for an even finish.
Brass is soft, it polishes easily and very well given the proper polishing compound. The more time you take and the finer the compounds used, the better the finish, regardless of material type.
My New SC, below, was originally gold. You can see the remnants of it inside the cap. This is the condition it arrived in. Dirty and in need of some TLC.
First I cleaned it, then I inspected it. The cap had some fairly deep scratches which I removed with 600grit wet sandpaper, then polished by hand with Autosol. Wet sanded again and then onto my buffing wheel. That razor took some time but, by 'time' I mean about 30 minutes all in to get it like below.
The finer scratches could easily be removed by using a finer polishing compound and taking more time. I'm impatient and found that good enough for me. You can also polish tighter areas, like between the teeth of the comb, with a toothbrush and polishing compound. It takes a little longer but it works.
I'm not sure of the difference between a gold plating and a gold wash. My Fatip Grande is gold plated and its still fine after several years but it will never see any BKF and it wont need too. A light quick scrub with an old toothbrush and Dawn is all it ever needs and it looks the same today as the day I got it.
The gold wash on vintage Gillette razors however, is different. After the gold finish was applied, there was a varnish applied over it to protect it. You can see that as the red between the teeth of the comb and around the ball end of the handle in the new in box New LC I had.
That thin varnish is what protected the very fragile gold on vintage Gillette razors. Once the varnish is gone, the gold will follow it unless extreme care is taken to preserve it. I could be wrong, but I believe that varnish was an alcohol based varnish and I'd be less eager to wipe it with isopropyl alcohol than to use BKF on it.
If you have a stainless steel sink, wet it, sprinkle it with a bit of BKF and give it a light scrub with a damp sponge. You'll quickly see how it works and, by using it on a larger surface like a sink, you'll feel the fine grit thats in it. In 10 seconds, that sink will be gleaming and the water will bead off it like its been waxed.
I cant offer any suggestions on anything I havent used. The above is what I've used, along with, as just posted, Scrubbing Bubbles. However, I use the foaming one.
After a month of using my Grande it has soap residue built up pretty well on it. I can give it a good spray with that, let it sit for maybe 30 seconds and rinse it off and its perfectly clean. Once things are clean, they're easier to keep clean.
I wouldnt recommend the use of any chemical solutions on vintage gold razors, of any make.
- Thread starter
- #29
Fascinating! Thanks for sharing your process and answering all my questions.
So for people who use Flitz which type do they use? I see that Amazon in Canada sells a paste, in like a toothpaste tube, and a liquid in a little bottle.
Basically any of the gold Aristocrats, and other gold finished razors of the period would be termed "gold washed" today, as their plating was very thin. Plating is thicker, because of the method of application. If you like your Aristo, I would suggest upping the $65 and having it refinished by Razorplate, Back Roads Gold, or one of the other reputable companies. Back roads did my '34 Aristocrat, and it is gorgeous. Modern plating is substantively thicker, and will certainly last your lifetime with daily use.
Edit: Aristocrats were billed and sold as "gold plated" because they did indeed electroplate, just not as heavily as is done today.
As far as a daily dunk-n-clean, I use this: Barbicide and jar
I don't use it for disinfection, per se, but because it is an extremely efficient cleaner. With that in mind, it will blacken raw brass, and may corrode aluminum, if they are left in over night.
I don't use it for disinfection, per se, but because it is an extremely efficient cleaner. With that in mind, it will blacken raw brass, and may corrode aluminum, if they are left in over night.
EclipseRedRing
I smell like a Christmas pudding
I use only vintage razors, generally user grade, have never had one replated, and know very little about replating. If modern plating is, as you say, 'substantially thicker', then does that not alter the blade gap, geometry, and performance of the razor?
- Thread starter
- #35
I use the Flitz paste in the tube.
- Thread starter
- #36
Thanks for the explanation about gold washed and the suggestion for the plating. (I can't bring myself to use my Aristocrat--it's too pretty!)
When done properly (BackRoads Gold, RazorPlate, a few otthers) no, it does not change the razor or its performance. We're talking microns, not millimeters, so "substantial" is a relative term.
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