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- #721
simon1
Self Ignored by Vista
Charter Arms Bulldog Classic
HSM 240 gr. SWC .44 Special
El Paso Saddlery thumb break
HSM 240 gr. SWC .44 Special
El Paso Saddlery thumb break
What was your carry today?
- Thread starter simon1
- Start date
Never left the house today. So mostly these guys. 
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Ruger SR1911 .45 Commander. Sam Andrews Saddle holster. Wore it all day. Never knew I had it it on.....
That's by daily pistol as well. Great choice.
only thing I carried today was my snow shovel....
Very nice! 507K?
I was thinking the same thing. Appendix carry has never been comfortable for me but the reviews on this setup are good enough I’m starting to think I should revisit it.
There are definitely pro’s & con’s with appendix carry, just like any other position.
The biggest pro is it’s speed. There just isn’t another carry position where there is a faster pistol presentation. The pistol is right up front, facing the threat.
However, the biggest con with appendix imo, is the pistol is right up front, facing the threat.
I remember seeing a video, where an off duty officer in Brazil, was out beside his car at a gas station where, he was pumping gas.
Unbeknownst to him, two carjacker’s, one of them armed, came up from behind on the opposite side of his car and then came around the rear of the car where he was pumping gas then approached him and confronted him, pointing their gun right at his chest.
He had no advanced warning that it was going to happen before they were in his face. If he was carrying appendix, there just wouldn’t be anyway he could pull his pistol without them seeing what he was doing, no matter how fast he could have drew it.
However, because he was carrying at 4 o’clock behind his right hip, he was able to immediately turn his gun side away from the bad guys where his right hand and hip could not be seen.
While he was digging his car keys out of his left pocket to give them to the bad guys, because his left hand and side were facing them, they got busy watching his left hand digging for those keys, while he stealthily, pulled his own pistol out of it’s hip holster which they couldn’t see.
As he handed the bad guy with the gun his keys with his left hand, the bad guy put his focus on this transaction for just those few milliseconds, which allowed the good guy the small opportunity to shove the point of his own pistol into this bad guys chest and pull the trigger at point blank range.
While that bad guy immediately went down stiff, the other unarmed bad guy took off running.This could have never happened successfully with appendix carry.
While it’s fast, one has to see everything coming before it happens. And while being aware of your situational surroundings at all times is good advice for any carry position, the reality is, bad guys strike at the least opportune times.
They won’t even present their weapon or motives, until they are right up on you.
While acknowledging the fact that this is only one scenario out of countless more, the only point I’m attempting to make is... Appendix carry does not allow one to be surprised with a threat up close which may require a stealth draw if you are surprised and confronted from the front. There is no way to turn your pistol away from a threat.
Because it does, can and will happen.
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- Thread starter
- #731
simon1
Self Ignored by Vista
There are definitely pro’s & con’s with appendix carry, just like any other position.
The biggest pro is it’s speed. There just isn’t another carry position where there is a faster pistol presentation. The pistol is right up front, facing the threat.
However, the biggest con with appendix imo, is the pistol is right up front, facing the threat.
I remember seeing a video, where an off duty officer in Brazil, was out beside his car at a gas station where, he was pumping gas.
Unbeknownst to him, two carjacker’s, one of them armed, came up from behind on the opposite side of his car and then came around the rear of the car where he was pumping gas then approached him and confronted him, pointing their gun right at his chest.
He had no advanced warning that it was going to happen before they were in his face. If he was carrying appendix, there just wouldn’t be anyway he could pull his pistol without them seeing what he was doing, no matter how fast he could have drew it.
However, because he was carrying at 4 o’clock behind his right hip, he was able to immediately turn his gun side away from the bad guys where his right hand and hip could not be seen.
While he was digging his car keys out of his left pocket to give them to the bad guys, because his left hand and side were facing them, they got busy watching his left hand digging for those keys, while he stealthily, pulled his own pistol out of it’s hip holster which they couldn’t see.
As he handed the bad guy with the gun his keys with his left hand, the bad guy put his focus on this transaction for just those few milliseconds, which allowed the good guy the small opportunity to shove the point of his own pistol into this bad guys chest and pull the trigger at point blank range.
While that bad guy immediately went down stiff, the other unarmed bad guy took off running.This could have never happened successfully with appendix carry.
While it’s fast, one has to see everything coming before it happens. And while being aware of your situational surroundings at all times is good advice for any carry position, the reality is, bad guys strike at the least opportune times.
They won’t even present their weapon or motives, until they are right up on you.
While acknowledging the fact that this is only one scenario out of countless more, the only point I’m attempting to make is... Appendix carry does not allow one to be surprised with a threat up close which may require a stealth draw if you are surprised and confronted from the front. There is no way to turn your pistol away from a threat.
Because it does, can and will happen.
Sure...you can have the keys. And a little something extra.
SIG 365 in my homemade Kydex IWB
some days... you may never get to take a shot. maybe you give away the car/wallet/phone/watch/whatever. maybe you fumble and drop the keys/wallet, backing off in a submissive cower, angle away, draw and fire as the bad guy picks up the keys/wallet.
I watched video of this technique in Brazil. people are in a line for an ATM or something in an interior space. bad guy sticks a pistol in the ribs of a dude and asks for the wallet. dude turns to him, fumble drops the wallet, cowers away as the chick behind him starts to react. bad guy's focused on her money and the dropped wallet. first dude circles around her, gets to the bad guy's 7 as he draws and puts one in his head while he's picking up the wallet. the bad guy was trying to stay low profile during all of this because there were about 10-15 people cued up in a few lines. but if you've given up the goods and cower away like a victim, you're less likely to be seen as a viable threat. you could create the space and time you need. or you could just get away without getting killed/hurt.
make space, distance, and opportunity if you can and it seems worth it... but sometimes you can't.
that fairly recent church shooting (Dallas I think), dude was trying to get his pistol off his right hip under his sports coat when he caught a shotgun to the chest, and another armed member had to drop the bad guy, with an impressive shot. some days just may not be your day.
another plus for AIWB is it's easier to pull while driving/seated. ensure the lap belt is below/clear of the weapon (pretty easy really), and I generally drape my cover clothing over the lap belt when I buckle up so it's not being pinched under the belt. a 3 o'clock draw wasn't always hard or bad, but past 3:30 or so... and you've fighting to get it out.
Never say never. Watching video of The guy in the church in Dallas who sadly, got blasted when trying to pull his pistol from his hip, makes me ask the question, if he should have done something different all together?
In that specific scenario, it wouldn’t have mattered where he was carrying. The tactics he used was the issue, not where his pistol was located.
He attempted to pull his pistol out standing right in front of the shooter while the shooter was standing there looking at him with his shotgun.
As I said earlier, many different pro’s and con’s and too many different type scenarios with any carry position which I’m pretty sure I made the effort to mention.
But again, if it’s a scenario of being robbed or confronted by surprise? By an armed assailant? AIWB cannot turn their weapon away from the threat to conceal a possible draw.
However, your suggestion of using the tactics of submissively cowering to throw off the assailant sounds like a viable alternative for appendix carry.
In that specific scenario, it wouldn’t have mattered where he was carrying. The tactics he used was the issue, not where his pistol was located.
He attempted to pull his pistol out standing right in front of the shooter while the shooter was standing there looking at him with his shotgun.
As I said earlier, many different pro’s and con’s and too many different type scenarios with any carry position which I’m pretty sure I made the effort to mention.
But again, if it’s a scenario of being robbed or confronted by surprise? By an armed assailant? AIWB cannot turn their weapon away from the threat to conceal a possible draw.
However, your suggestion of using the tactics of submissively cowering to throw off the assailant sounds like a viable alternative for appendix carry.
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My reluctance for appendix carry was due more to comfort than anything else. While standing it’s fine and I feel that it conceals better than 4 o'clock but when I sat down it seems like there’s always something poking or pinching. Maybe I slouch when I sit? Maybe it’s this small beer gut I developed around the age of 40? Maybe it’s because I was using a rig not designed for it with a 5 inch 1911. It just wasn’t as comfortable as 4 o’clock. Looking at the tier 1 holsters and the fact that I’ve managed to shave a few inches off the aforementioned gut really make me think I should revisit it though, especially with a shorter barreled pistol.
Situational awareness is always going to be your best defense/offense. If you don’t see the threat coming it doesn’t matter how you carry. Movement will also save your ***. A moving target is much harder to hit than someone standing still trying to pull a gun regardless of carry position. I’m not any kind of firearms/tactics expert but I have seen the aftermath of not recognizing the threat early enough Having said that after being in EMS for 2 decades I’ve come to realize that sometimes you can do everything right and still not get to go home that night.
Anyways, just my 2 cents. For now I’ll keep carrying at 4. However we carry practice and training are key. I’ve practiced sweeping clothes aside and drawing from 4 o’clock so many times that it feels natural to me, kind of like sweeping the thumb safety off a 1911 as the pistol is coming up.
Oh yeah, I’m never going to Brazil. Look up “Brazilian bath salt Zombies.” I doubt that all the videos posted are from Brazil but there are more than a few that look like they probably are.
Situational awareness is always going to be your best defense/offense. If you don’t see the threat coming it doesn’t matter how you carry. Movement will also save your ***. A moving target is much harder to hit than someone standing still trying to pull a gun regardless of carry position. I’m not any kind of firearms/tactics expert but I have seen the aftermath of not recognizing the threat early enough Having said that after being in EMS for 2 decades I’ve come to realize that sometimes you can do everything right and still not get to go home that night.
Anyways, just my 2 cents. For now I’ll keep carrying at 4. However we carry practice and training are key. I’ve practiced sweeping clothes aside and drawing from 4 o’clock so many times that it feels natural to me, kind of like sweeping the thumb safety off a 1911 as the pistol is coming up.
Oh yeah, I’m never going to Brazil. Look up “Brazilian bath salt Zombies.” I doubt that all the videos posted are from Brazil but there are more than a few that look like they probably are.
I remember carrying speed loaders on duty when I was a wet behind the ears baby policeman in 1987.
Wow!!
I'm not opposed to appendix carry, but I prefer to carry in the traditional 3-3:30 position on my right hip (75% IWB, and 25% OWB). A lot of it has to do with consistency and habit. I've carried for more 20 years, and there is so much habit and muscle memory from training classes and dry fire work from my right hip that I'm sticking with it. There is the part of appendix carry with the muzzle facing the femoral artery and other assorted important bits and pieces that would be a bit weird if I started to carry that way, but would certainly be overcome in short order just by doing it. I'll just continue dancing with what brung me...
Cheers.
Cheers.
Rob, I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I don't disagree about the Church guard. it's easy to Monday morning quarterback it, and the man did the best he could with what he had and knew. maybe a distraction then tackle and wait for another armed member to get him/help might have worked. some combat CQB situations involved exactly that. enter a room and bad guy's too close to get a muzzle into or he grabbed good guy's muzzle to deflect it, so bear hug and pin his weapon, trip/wrestle to the ground, head butt him with a helmet rim and wait for the #2-4 man to come shoot him in the face. that only works with trustworthy teams though.
as far as AIWB carry, it's easy to shift the holster up as you sit, subtly push it back down when standing. Warrior Poet Society has videos on youtube and he demos it. having a micro adjusting belt makes it easier too. but I can't imagine carrying a full sized pistol comfortably. compact is as big as I've gone, and a sub is hardly even noticeable, with all day comfort. hostler selection is also important, as in all carries.
the Brazilian dude was carrying at the 4. but working tactics sometimes just work.
I'm all about running what you brung to the table, and training is everything. we all make as informed a decision as possible to execute the things we want to do based on the totality of our experiences. I'm as much a victim of and biased by my practices and experience. for me it's about using your training and experience, but being receptive to new ideas and integrating what works.
as far as AIWB carry, it's easy to shift the holster up as you sit, subtly push it back down when standing. Warrior Poet Society has videos on youtube and he demos it. having a micro adjusting belt makes it easier too. but I can't imagine carrying a full sized pistol comfortably. compact is as big as I've gone, and a sub is hardly even noticeable, with all day comfort. hostler selection is also important, as in all carries.
the Brazilian dude was carrying at the 4. but working tactics sometimes just work.
I'm all about running what you brung to the table, and training is everything. we all make as informed a decision as possible to execute the things we want to do based on the totality of our experiences. I'm as much a victim of and biased by my practices and experience. for me it's about using your training and experience, but being receptive to new ideas and integrating what works.
Good post @KW Driver. And I absolutely agree with you about Dallas. When the guy saw the gunman pulling the long gun from underneath his long coat he had a decision to make. He was close enough to rush the long gun, but he decided to take his time pulling his hip pistol instead.
If you think about it, if he would have been carrying appendix he would have been much faster into action and might have survived? So you see, I’m not against appendix carry, of which I do carry that way myself on the rare occasion.
I think we should use the videos of what we see of successful and unsuccessful encounters as feedback of how or why we do, should, would or don’t. Not worry about Monday Morning QBing. I’m sorry and sad for the guy in Dallas.
He’s still a hero in my book. But I think he would want us to learn and glean something from that entire ordeal.
As I said earlier, appendix’s pro, is it provides the fastest draw of any carry position. I think discussing carry positions and the why’s and where’s of the pro’s and con’s of where and what we carry makes for good discussion to go along with these awesome carry pics we post.
No?
I think the pic you posted is absolutely cool and awesome. I would be proud to carry your set up appendix.
Maybe I will mention a major con of carrying at 4 o’clock in another post.
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