What To Do With This Blade?

[rbscebu]

@aussie very generously PIFed me a pre 1924 Cadman "Bengall" blade that was excess to his requirements. My intention is to use this bade in my first go at making and fitting a set of new scales.

This blade has certainly seen better days. After examining the blade, I am wondering if it is worthy of restoration. If not, I will just use it for my scale making training.

The spine has the following characteristics.

Location​	Spine Wear Width (mm)​	Spine Thickness (mm)​
Near Shoulder	0.5​	6.0​
About Mid-Length	1.0​	5.3​
At Head (point end)	2.5​	3.8​

If restoring the blade, my current thoughts are to;

• Bread-knife the edge back is a 5/8 (16mm) blade,​
• Grind the spine thickness back to about 4mm for its full length (leaving a step at the shoulder up to the 5.8mm thick shank), and​
• Grind the point back by about 5mm and convert it to say a French profile.​
• There will probable need to be some grinding work at the stabiliser/heel to tidy things up.​

What are your thoughts on this blade?

 

[FarmerTan]

How "deep" does the rust appear? It looks like you are on the right track to my eye in making it a 5/8.

 

[RumpleBearskin]

I'll be honest, that seems like a lot of work. It will likely give you a cleaner profile.

But if you're just looking to make it usable I'd say sand the rust, only hone back to the point you have solid steel, and use rolling X strokes the whole time. You will still have s smiling profile and a funky toe, but it should sharpen up along the whole edge with far less work.

Then again, maybe I'm just lazy ...

 

[rbscebu]

How "deep" does the rust appear? It looks like you are on the right track to my eye in making it a 5/8.

None of the rust is deep enough to affect the blade's shaving ability. @RumpleBearskin is correct in that my proposal would take a lot of work. I have no need of yet another Bengall, I already have 9 of them and other soon to be PIFed.

It might be best if I attempt to make and fit scales the blade, hone it up to shave-ready and PIF it to some worthy soul on B&B who would have a need for it.

 

[Gamma]

I would grind the heel to allow clearance for future honings. Sand out any rust with 220x w/d, polish a bit with 600x w/d.
rescale and hone. It'll take a great edge and shave very well.
Breadknifing is just about the last thing I'd ever recommend to anyone to ever do to any blade for any reason. It always wastes too much steel for absolutely no gain in shave quality. Visually, that blade isn't going to look 'better' if the width is evened out. Really, it isn't. The steel is great, and it's showing honest wear. I'd roll with it as-is.
Many guys find that tapered smilers shave very comfortably. They seem, to me, to be very copacetic with scything motions, and other grain-induced gymnastics. There was a well known Sheffield maker that ground their blades that way intentionally.
I always lean towards being as least invasive as possible. Putting a crap ton of work into a razor that isn't significant in any way would only happen if I was bored out of my mind and had absolutely nothing else better to do.

 

[aussie]

@aussie very generously PIFed me a pre 1924 Cadman "Bengall" blade that was excess to his requirements. My intention is to use this bade in my first go at making and fitting a set of new scales.

This blade has certainly seen better days. After examining the blade, I am wondering if it is worthy of restoration. If not, I will just use it for my scale making training.

View attachment 1559527​

The spine has the following characteristics.

Location​	Spine Wear Width (mm)​	Spine Thickness (mm)​
Near Shoulder	0.5​	6.0​
About Mid-Length	1.0​	5.3​
At Head (point end)	2.5​	3.8​

If restoring the blade, my current thoughts are to;

• Bread-knife the edge back is a 5/8 (16mm) blade,​
• Grind the spine thickness back to about 4mm for its full length (leaving a step at the shoulder up to the 5.8mm thick shank), and​
• Grind the point back by about 5mm and convert it to say a French profile.​
• There will probable need to be some grinding work at the stabiliser/heel to tidy things up.​

What are your thoughts on this blade?

Hey it looks as though have polished it a bit?

There are plenty of inexpensive blades available. So the point of my last PM was to not waste a lot of time on blades such as this. Not sure if that point came through.

 

[aussie]

Also, I would suggest grinding off the round point. Maybe turn it into a spike point razor?

 

[rbscebu]

@aussie, I gave it a quick polish with Autosol just to see how it would clean up. Converting the point to a French style rather than an American (square) style would be better at removing the overly thin spine section towards the point.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

All the geometry damage is likely from the heel having needed correction, which someone finally did, after the damage was done.
Honing on the stabilizer kept the heel half of the razor off the stone and the honer applied more pressure and ground the spine and toe excessively.

The razor also appears to have Cell Rot damage, (tail, tang, toe, and edge). I would first fully set a bevel and see if it will hold an edge, rust on the bevels, are not a good indicator, for extensive restoration. You can end up with a fully restored razor, that will not shave.

A full restoration, removing all the Cell Rot pitting would involve a lot, (days) of hand sanding, and still will never be a looker, you cannot replace lost steel.

See if it will hold an edge, and if it does. Correct the heel so it is well away from the stabilizer and lower the width of the heel, close to the width of the toe, without reducing any of the blade width at the middle of the blade and make it a smiling blade. You want to keep as much blade width as possible.

Do not worry about lost steel on the spine, learn to hone it as is or add tape on the toe to compensate. Grinding the spine will only cause more issues.

Then make a new pair of horn scales and make it a shaver.

Google “Make me Smile Straight Razor” for a step-by-step tutorial on how to correct a distorted edge and make a good looking and shaving smiler.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

BTW, if you look at the “Make Me Smile” thread/tutorial and come away with nothing else, make your design decisions on paper.

Make a cardboard template of your blade and make/ draw your design ideas on paper, the template. Then cut the finished design out with a scissor and trace the profile on to the blade with a black sharpie.

The black sharpie will show you on the blade exactly what the blade profile will look like on the razor. If you don’t like it, toss in the trash, make a new template and start over.

Once you start cutting steel you are committed.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

Check that it will take an edge. Don't waste a lot of time if the bevel won't hold without crumbling. I might change the tip depending on how I feel about it after the heal correction. A big smiler with a narrow tip is fine but if you work the heal down enough it won't be that noticeable. You won't have a perfect razor when done because of the pitting but it will make a nice shaver. Make some low-cost scales or if you are anything like me you have plenty of scales laying around so find any that will match up decent.

It's worth fixing up. A PIF later, Something to practice on, or to add to your razors. Just be sure it will take an edge first. Then kill the edge for safety and fix it up.

 

[Doc226]

First make sure you can get a clean bevel, then clean up as you like then make the scales

 

[5whiskey]

Also a vote for doing the least amount of work needed to set the bevel the entire length. I have a Joseph Elliot from the mid 19th century that looks about like that, except it had a very slight frown in the center. I worked that out and it took a few hours on a 240 grit hone. I then honed the stabilizer down (I believe the reason why it was frowned), then finally got the bevel set so the entire length would contact the hone. It was a lot of work. What you're talking about is a lot more work still. Sand out any minor pits if you want, set the bevel, a light polish, and rock on. It'll be a handsome razor still, even with a bit of hone wear.

 

[rbscebu]

Yesterday I prepared some timber for this SR's scales. It is Queensland silver ash (flindersia bourjotiana). Each piece is 198mm x 33mm x 3.5mm.

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After giving this project some thought, I decided first to reprofile the point. I chose a French point style as that would remove most of the steel that I was not happy with. Using a Dremel with flexible extension and grinding underwater, the new French point is done. This didn't take long, under an hour.

The edge lost about 6mm of its length with this little modification and the spine lost appreciatively more. I intend to keep the toe pointy and sharp. All looked good.

Next will be set this blade's bevel. If that works well, I will clean the blade up and attempt my first rescale.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

I think that will do just fine as a shape. Its got a nice look to it. Good luck with the bevel as those little rusty spots will need to take out more steel than you think to get to good steel. Just remember to not get too carried away on the bevel as you will need to do it again after correcting the heal.

 

[rbscebu]

The blade took a very nice bevel. I started on my 1k Chinese synth and finished the bevel on a 3k Chinese synth. While I was on the 1k, I decided to hone out some of the irregularities in the edge profile. All worked well with about one hour of work. The edge length is now down to 59mm.

​

Next will be to clean up the shank and tail. I will clean up the blade once the scales are made and fitted.

I hope it doesn't turn out too good. @aussie may start regretting that he gave me this blade .

 

[rbscebu]

.... Just remember to not get too carried away on the bevel as you will need to do it again after correcting the heal.

I am happy with the current heel arrangement. I understand that others may have problems honing with this type of heel profile. When I started to develop my SR honing skills, I was not aware that many heel profiles present problems. I just carried on regardless. Ignorance can be bliss.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

That little point on the heel looks deadly to me. But it's your razor. I will be watching to see how it turns out.

 

[rbscebu]

That little point on the heel looks deadly to me. But it's your razor. I will be watching to see how it turns out.

That little point in the heel is where the straight edge profile meets the straight part of the heel grind. It can be bloody if not used with care when shaving but no more bloody than the sharp pointy toe. I like them that way. They both help to keep my concentration up when shaving.