What to Buy? Clarification

[Blorkin]

So I think I am going to buy my first hone set and give honing a shot. But first I would like to make sure that I am buying ONLY what I need. I have picked a few options and would like your opinions.

First: Norton Starter Kit
Just wanted to know what the purpose of the 220/1000 grit was.


Second: Norton 4000/8000 and DMT D8C
Considering this option if I don't need the 220/100 grit stone.


Third: Spyderco Set and DMT D8C
Possibly considering a different DMT because the Spyerco's are extremely hard. In which case what would be recommended?


Fourth: Spyderco Set
Not getting the DMT D8C because apparently no flattening is required and if it is needed I can just send them back.
This is also the cheapest option at $126



So in all I am leaning to option four. Is this a smart choice?


PS:
Also for the Spyderco stones I have no problem doing making an X while honing.

 

[Blorkin]

Is it also possible to sharpen a chef knife with them? I don't see why it would not be.

 

[Kentos]

Your first set of hones is a highly personal choice. I would suggest one of the following:

Lapping film. Cheap, effective. Did I mention cheap?

Synthetic hone set. Naniwa, Shapton, Chosera. This costs more, but 4-5 stones in a gradual progression makes it easier to learn IMO as there is less guess work overall. Expensive.

Coticule. Not so cheap, not so expensive, but for some it's akin to using black magic to hone a razor.

Is addition, do you know if you prefer a natural edge vs synthetic?

It is hard to choose for sure. If you are on a budget the films may be your best bet. If money is not an issue, get a full synthetic progression.

If money is a bit tight, but you like a challenge and a natural edge, the coticule is great.

I have heard good things about the Norton 4/8, but it is last year's darling, and a few people prefer more refinement than an 8k edge. But YMMV.

Good luck! Trying to decide is half the fun IMO.

 

[Doc226]

What Kent Said.

I would have saved lots of money if I tried out different edge types before purchasing. After money spent I found out I don't like synthetic edges.

 

[shakin_jake]

You need to ask yourself...what do I want the hones to do?...if all you want is to keep an edge sharp on a razor or three that already have a shave ready edge, and you want to keep your investment low, consider buying a quality 1 K hone for occasional bevel correction work, then a 3u and 1 u strip of film will keep the edges honed followed by pasted strop

If the bevels are truly corrected you can get by w/o the 1 K hone but I like to quote the great philospher that said "how do we know what we know?"

I began this journey using coticules, and I still use them. I've never tried honing using a full synthetic progression. Never had to with my coticule experience, but I liked the idea of seeing what was over the hill so I have used lapping film finishing w/Cr0x...but only 3 & 1 u film, nothing finer nor coarser

Last step of this journey for me has been some use finihsing with a J-Nat, after coticule. I like that edge quite a bit

At the risk of repeating myself, what do you want to accomplish?....maintain shave ready edges?, or do you want to take a letter opener (straight razor from the wild) from can't shve to shave ready?

IMO and from what I've seen on this forum, very few guys will go for the hobo honing scheme (lapping film) and stick with it. Just something about rubbing razors on rocks that appeals to most of us, but if all you are looking for is a way to maintain a shave ready edge and you don't want to spend all that much, lapping filmn IMO is a very solid choice. Could be your gateway drug


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

 

[Blorkin]

I think eventually I will want to take a letter opener and turn it into a straight razor But I feel that, to do that, takes many stones. So for now I guess I want something that I can build on later. What I am looking for is i guess clarification that i am on the right track with the four options above and which one of the four is the best choice.

 

[Kentos]

Well if you are only open to your original 4, I guess the Norton 4/8 and lapping stone. But for that price you could get a coticule too.

 

[Blorkin]

What coticule would you recommend and if I get the coticule will I need anything else?

 

[shakin_jake]

What coticule would you recommend and if I get the coticule will I need anything else?

~~~I like the 40X150mm size. As for which vein, I'm told La Grise is on the soft side, too soft if you want to de-ebay those types of razors, but I've never honed with La Grise. Why not give Jarrod at the superior shave a phone call and ask him what he would recommned to you. Jarrod sells the majority of coticules here in the states and he wont steer you wrong

If your goal is to buy vintage blades from places like ebay, invaribly you run into blades with small chips, and that's where a 1 K synthetic hone will come in handy. Regular old micro chipping a coticule can deal with but the large micro chips are best removed with a syn 1 K hone. What do you ahve in the way of razors currently to hone, or need honing? What do the edges look like, are they shave ready and you are only needing something to maintain sharpness?

A single coticule with a slurry stone may very well handle all of your honing chores for the moment but if you seriously get into buying razors from the wild and want to gain experience going over a variety of blades, those 1 K syn stones really help out with that kind of work, but if you were only to maintain some current shave ready straights, I'd say the coticule would be all you need, and all you would want to learn for the time being.

Learning to hone using a coticule is not difficult (I'm proof of that= but anyone here that uses them will be the first to tell you that the best way to learn how to use a coticule is to concentrate using that one stone only until you get it down, then try to learn another stone, but the rule of thumb when learning how to hone using a coticule, be prepared to spend some time with it

My first coticule (first hone too) was/is (I still ahve it) a la petit blanc. i didn't catch on right away. In fact what tripped the light fantastic for me was using a piece of BBW after bevel correcting with the LPB, then I polished the edge on BBW, went back to the LPB on straight water only and there I was. Success!

In case you were wondering, there is a primer to learn the mighty coticule. Read all of the chapters on this page-

http://www.coticule.be/straight-razor-honing.html



Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

 

[mainaman]

I think eventually I will want to take a letter opener and turn it into a straight razor But I feel that, to do that, takes many stones. So for now I guess I want something that I can build on later. What I am looking for is i guess clarification that i am on the right track with the four options above and which one of the four is the best choice.

4/8k Norton and lapping plate with pasted strop is a decent starting set up.
You can work a knife on that set up as well.

 

[Wid]

I would suggest lapping film, cheap, cheap, cheap. But works very well.

 

[Kavik79]

4/8k Norton and lapping plate with pasted strop is a decent starting set up.
You can work a knife on that set up as well.

I wouldn't suggest that. The Norton stones are pretty soft, you'd end up needing to lap them after any knife sharpening before razor sharpening again


I like the 4k/8k well enough, the 1k is good for bevel setting, I've even used the 220 side for major chip removal (carefully and lightly). However, I found the Norton flattening stone to be beyond useless, it wasn't close to flat when I got it, and even after I flattened it it was pretty harsh on the other stones. So that makes buying the whole set a little less of a bargain, but still overall cheaper than buying the two combo stones separately.
It's a decent set though combined with the DMT8C for flattening, or use a flat tile/glass and wet/dry paper for a cheaper route. But you may still want something higher than 8k for finishing. Cheaper options include a Chinese 12k. But that still puts you up over $200 with the DMT

That spyderco set isn't going to do it for you. It says it includes 200, 1800 and 2000 grit stones.....1800 is a bit fine for bevel setting (could work, but take longer) and 2000 isn't even close to a finishing grit, not by a long shot


I've only just recently started playing with lapping films, but I agree that it's a great place to start cheaply

 

[Blorkin]

... What do you ahve in the way of razors currently to hone, or need honing? What do the edges look like, are they shave ready and you are only needing something to maintain sharpness? ...

I currently only have one razor but I ordered a second (its a gold dollar) for practice. The edge for my main one (Tom Keen) is still doing fine, not as good as it was when I first got it; it was shave ready. Also I guess my main reason was for my chef knifes, they are really dull. But I figured if I am going to get something for my knives it might as well be able to to a razor, why waste money and have multiple hones when I can get a few that will be able to do both tasks.

... That spyderco set isn't going to do it for you. It says it includes 200, 1800 and 2000 grit stones.....1800 is a bit fine for bevel setting (could work, but take longer) and 2000 isn't even close to a finishing grit, not by a long shot ...

According to joel's guide they are equivalent to 3-4k, 8k, and 13-14k girts.




After much research (other shaving forums, kitchen forums, and wood carving forums) on what will best accomplish both task, I am thinking the Spyderco is the best bet. The biggest problem that I found was that they are not flat, but that was back in 2008 and early 2009. Some of the more recent reviews have stated that the flatness has been fixed. As per lapping film, I want to do it the "difficult" way...I mean it is one of the reasons I use a straight razor

If anyone has anything testimonials that will convince me otherwise please let me know. Also any constructive criticism would also be appreciated.

 

[shakin_jake]

I don't know anyone that uses spyderco to hone straight razors....you must be reading that over on SRP. BTW, a $40 BBW will do a good job putting edges on your chef knife...here's the one I use

measures 40X150mm...like I said, I paid $40 for it, through thesuperiorshave

I use one side for the kitchen knives, the other side is reserved for razors. Now I don't often use it for honing razors but when I do I use it right after bevel correction, 100 X strokes on wet slurried BBW, then approx. 100 x strokes on straight coti/water (no slurry)...got the idea from Bart http://www.coticule.be/progressive-honing-method.html


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Film. Wow.

A Norton set of 220/1000 and 4k/8k will gitter done, but no wow. Finish with a C12k, and you still don't get wow, but you will get a hmmmm.... or maybe a MMMMMmmmm!

Film gives you the wow. And it is cheap and easy. No stones to lap, either. You can have an entire setup for full progression for $20 or so.

 

[Wid]

I don't know anyone that uses spyderco to hone straight razors....you must be reading that over on SRP.




Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

Well, I have a Spyderco UF that will put a very nice edge on a razor. They can be used with success.

 

[Doc226]

Film. Wow.

Film gives you the wow. And it is cheap and easy. No stones to lap, either. You can have an entire setup for full progression for $20 or so.

I find film edges sharp but not very smooth.

 

[shakin_jake]

Originally Posted by shakin_jake I don't know anyone that uses spyderco to hone straight razors....you must be reading that over on SRP.

Well, I have a Spyderco UF that will put a very nice edge on a razor. They can be used with success.

~~~I said I don't know anyone that uses spyderco to hone straight razors...BTW, who are you?



Best,


=
Jake
Reddick Fla.

 

[Wid]

Originally Posted by shakin_jake I don't know anyone that uses spyderco to hone straight razors....you must be reading that over on SRP.






~~~I said I don't know anyone that uses spyderco to hone straight razors...BTW, who are you?



Best,


=
Jake
Reddick Fla.

I'm me

 

[Slash McCoy]

I find film edges sharp but not very smooth.

I won't be home for some time, but when I get home I'll send you one of my GD cosmetically flawed specials for you to check out, honed on film. Once in a while I mod a GD or a batch of them and one or more just don't come out pretty but the edge works out too good to just toss it. There are a few tweaks for getting the most out of your film. Most important is to have everything squeaky clean, and a very very smooth lapping plate. Also the damp paper trick helps a lot, as does a finishing set with lather on the film. When I first started, my edges were wicked sharp right off the bat, but a bit harsh. I had to set aside the .3u film and just use 1u for the finish. Most everybody finds this the case. But now I find that I am okay with my .3u edges, off paper and with lather. A little refinement in technique made the difference. I think you will find a really good film edge can be just as nice or nicer than your Jnat edges, and not lacking in smoothness, either. You might even detect a faint whiff of mojo rising from the blade. I think it's from the lather. VDH applied with a 30mm chinese silvertip, you know.