What Timeless Razor Is Most Aggressive/Efficient? | How do you know?

[jeffmudrick]

I guess I am using blade feel as a way to avoid wading into the debate over efficiency vs. aggressiveness. I don't really mind blade feel or some blade chatter, and I think that is largely of product of my shaving "upbringing." I just like a razor that will get rid of hair in as few passes as possible. By way of explanation, a big chunk of my time wet shaving was with Feather Straight DX razors. Blade chatter with it is guaranteed bloodletting, but after a moment of carelessness with it one morning, I started exploring DE razors and coincidentally around that time the 2011 R41 was introduced, which became my daily driver for 10+ years. It has pretty hefty blade chatter and feel, but it works for me. Now I am on the hunt again - I realized the zamak on my R41 wasn't going to last forever. I like the AC blade format from my DX days for its rigidity, and I had high hopes the Vector might be my new "desert island razor," but it doesn't have enough blade exposure (or whatever) for my preferences/beard. So not a macho thing for me, I'm just at a strange end of the shaving spectrum.

Big caveat - I don't shave my head, just my face.

Going completely off topic but If you're willing to experiment you might want to check out the Enders Speed threads. Can use a Schick B20 Proline blade and set exposure as you wish. I have mine fairly aggressively set and it's a joy to shave with. Nothing like the blade feel on my R41 but a far better shaver .

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[APBinNCA]

I like the AC blade format from my DX days for its rigidity, and I had high hopes the Vector might be my new "desert island razor," but it doesn't have enough blade exposure (or whatever) for my preferences/beard. So not a macho thing for me, I'm just at a strange end of the shaving spectrum.

Colonial General+Feather Super blade

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

There are some very good pictures showing the slim's blade exposure. If you go back to 2-16-2021 under the title "Timeless Stainless Steel Slim (OC+Smooth Cap) | Overview | First Shave Report". This was posted by Cal on 1-8-2021 and it runs 4 pages.

It appears to show Timeless's claim of .05mm blade exposure to be quite a bit more than stated.

Cal and I were certainly speculating that the blade exposure might be larger than stated by Timeless, but that's all it was, speculation.

Having used the Timeless Bronze 78 and both Timeless Slim baseplates I'd say with the certainty of experience the Bronze has a lot more blade feel than either of the Slim baseplates. Of course, that's not a substitute for measuring, and my impressions using the razor might be subjective.

Timeless says the Bronze has a lot more blade exposure than the Slim and I believe it.

In my experience, the Bronze is not an extremely blade forward razor either.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Dovo1695]

There are some very good pictures showing the slim's blade exposure. If you go back to 2-16-2021 under the title "Timeless Stainless Steel Slim (OC+Smooth Cap) | Overview | First Shave Report". This was posted by Cal on 1-8-2021 and it runs 4 pages.

Thanks for the link. Lots of photos and some interesting discussion.

Cal and I were certainly speculating that the blade exposure might be larger than stated by Timeless, but that's all it was, speculation.

Taking photos of razor profiles is brutally difficult. I'm still a very long way from wrapping my head around it. Take these two photos from the link provided above by @Cannon Cocker. They are posted consecutively in a brilliant review of the Slim. I added red lines to show the shave plane and blade exposure. The top picture clearly shows that the blade exposure is negative. The bottom picture of the same razor, loaded with the same blade, taken by the same camera a few minutes later. It clearly shows an enormous blade exposure that I would estimate is well north of 10mm based on the photo. It's the second photo that prompted the discussion that perhaps the Slim has may really have an exposure of 10mm-15mm, and you can certainly see why. Is the razor negative or massively positive? Which one is correct? Is either correct? Which one is more accurate? I don't know anyone who could say for sure.

Here is another photo of the Slim from the Timeless website. It looks like it was taken absolutely perfectly vertically above razor. I added the red line to show the shave plane. It clearly shows negative blade exposure. Is that correct?

Taking photos of razor profiles is brutally difficult. I've been taking photos recently with a simple USB microscope. I feed them into a program called ImageJ, which was developed and supported by the US National Institute of Health for taking measurements within microscope photos. I can measure things with pixel level accuracy. Put more correctly, I can get the wrong measurements with pixel level accuracy. Everything depends on the photo, the lens skew, the focal plane, the centering of the blade apex in the lens, etc. I still have no idea how to do it correctly. Here is a photo I took yesterday of a Lupo .72, with labels and measurements. I have no idea if I'm correct. The only reason I have to think it might be correct is that somebody just got the same measurements independently +/- 0.03mm with their microscope and AutoCad. Was that luck? Are we both wrong? I honestly have no idea.

If anybody knows how to take great photos of razor profiles, for the purpose of measuring exposure and gap I would love to hear about it. The more photos I take, them more I realize I'm not even sure how to evaluate whether a photo is an accurate representation of reality.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Thanks for the link. Lots of photos and some interesting discussion.



Taking photos of razor profiles is brutally difficult. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Take these two photos from the link provided above by @Canon cocker. They are posted consecutively in a brilliant review of the Slim. I added red lines to show the razor exposure. The top picture clearly shows that the exposure is negative. The bottom picture of the same razor, loaded with the same blade, taken by the same camera a few minutes later. It clearly shows an enormous blade exposure that I would estimate is well north of 10mm based on the photo. It's the second photo that prompted the discussion that perhaps the razor has an exposure of 10mm-15mm, and you can certainly see why. Is the razor negative or massively positive? Which one is correct? Is either correct? I don't know anyone who could say for sure.

Here is another photo of the Slim from the Timeless website. It looks like it was taken absolutely perfectly above razor with the apex of the blade centered in the photo. It clearly shows negative blade exposure. Is that correct?

Taking photos of razor profiles is brutally difficult. I've been taking photos recently with a simple USB microscope. I feed them into a program called ImageJ, which was developed and is still supported by the US National Institute of Health for taking measurements within microscope photos. I can measure things with pixel level accuracy. Put more correctly, I can get the wrong measurements with pixel level accuracy. Everything depends on the photo, the lens skew, the focal plane, the centering of the blade apex in the lens, etc. I still have no idea how to do it correctly. Here is a photo I took yesterday of a Lupo .72, with labels and measurements. I have no idea if I'm correct. The only reason I have to think it might be correct is that somebody got the same measurements +/- 0.03mm with their microscope and AutoCad. Was that luck? Are we both wrong? I literally have no idea.

If anybody knows how to take great photos of razor profiles, for the purpose of measuring exposure and gap I would love to hear about it. At this point, I really don't even know how to be sure that a photo is good, much less take one myself!

I have in the past taken some photos with my phone, photos which at least seemed to be pretty good for this sort of purpose. Not saying they were actually worth spit (agreeing with you; how can one be sure).

In the past few days my photographic efforts have produced absolutely abysmal outcomes. Not even worth uploading to my computer.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Dovo1695]

If anybody knows how to take great photos of razor profiles, for the purpose of measuring exposure and gap I would love to hear about it. The more photos I take, them more I realize I'm not even sure how to evaluate whether a photo is an accurate representation of reality.

I have in the past taken some photos with my phone, photos which at least seemed to be pretty good for this sort of purpose. Not saying they were actually worth spit (agreeing with you; how can one be sure).

I actually figured out how to be absolutely certain that the focal point of your lens is perfectly perpendicular to the apex of the blade, removing any skew that will affect measurement accuracy. In accordance with BOSC principles, it can be done at home in about 10 minutes, with scissors, an old CD, and a power drill. Just for good measure it uses optics and laser beams and whatnot. It really works!

Here is a link to the brief tutorial with lots of cool pics.

DE razor geometry. A system for measuring aggressive razors.

That was an ingenious idea Nick! I only have one question, who was holding the light bulb over your head when it came to you? LOL Lol, that's pretty much what happened. It as a floor lamp that was producing a glare on my iPad and it was annoying me.

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I actually figured out how to be absolutely certain that the focal point of your lens is perfectly perpendicular to the apex of the blade, removing any skew that will affect measurement accuracy. In accordance with BOSC principles, it can be done at home in about 10 minutes, with scissors, an old CD, and a power drill. Just for good measure it uses optics and laser beams and whatnot. It really works!

Here is a link to the brief tutorial with lots of cool pics.

DE razor geometry. A system for measuring aggressive razors.

That was an ingenious idea Nick! I only have one question, who was holding the light bulb over your head when it came to you? LOL Lol, that's pretty much what happened. It as a floor lamp that was producing a glare on my iPad and it was annoying me.

www.badgerandblade.com

Nick, it's amazing what you've come up with. I'm not sure I understand much of it, but I understand that you do, and that others are assisting you, correcting you, helping you, and that together you gentlemen are furthering the science wing of our asylum.

Thanks for sharing that particular link with me. I read it and the subsequent posts. Great stuff.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[muzichead]

@Chan Eil Whiskers

How is the Slim baseplate working out for you now that you've had it for a short time?

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

@Chan Eil Whiskers

How is the Slim baseplate working out for you now that you've had it for a short time?

I like it pretty well, but have been distracted by the Mühle Rocca R95 which is definitely more efficient, and also smooth feeling, and also not prone to biting me. I'm figuring out whether the R95 can be used as a Daily Driver. It might be a razor which leaves my skin feeling "overdone" (which is in the direction of razor burn but not that far along the continuum). It might be I just need to dial in my technique (lighten up even more) with the R95.

I didn't use the Slim much. That doesn't mean I don't like it. I think it more efficient than the 95 OC, but not a lot more efficient. The Ti Slim SB is more to my liking than the SS Slim OC I tried for only eight shaves around last Christmas time. The Ti Slim SB is also much more to my liking that the Bronze 78 OC. I like all these baseplates, but I'm looking for the best in terms of Daily Driver.

I have by no means given up on the Ti Slim SB (or the Ti 95 OC for that matter; the 95 OC is a damn good baseplate - super mild feeling & pretty efficient & certainly Daily Driver good - but I want even more efficiency (meaning a better ability to smooth my soul patch).

I might be looking for the Pegasus Unicorn of course.

I know that's not a very good answer. I've also not yet used the Timeless Aluminum (I have one though so I will).

The Mühle Rocca R95 is a very good razor but perhaps not for me a Daily Driver although that remains undetermined.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[never-stop-learning]

I like it pretty well, but have been distracted by the Mühle Rocca R95 which is definitely more efficient, and also smooth feeling, and also not prone to biting me. I'm figuring out whether the R95 can be used as a Daily Driver. It might be a razor which leaves my skin feeling "overdone" (which is in the direction of razor burn but not that far along the continuum). It might be I just need to dial in my technique (lighten up even more) with the R95.

I didn't use the Slim much. That doesn't mean I don't like it. I think it more efficient than the 95 OC, but not a lot more efficient. The Ti Slim SB is more to my liking than the SS Slim OC I tried for only eight shaves around last Christmas time. The Ti Slim SB is also much more to my liking that the Bronze 78 OC. I like all these baseplates, but I'm looking for the best in terms of Daily Driver.

I have by no means given up on the Ti Slim SB (or the Ti 95 OC for that matter; the 95 OC is a damn good baseplate - super mild feeling & pretty efficient & certainly Daily Driver good - but I want even more efficiency (meaning a better ability to smooth my soul patch).

I might be looking for the Pegasus Unicorn of course.

I know that's not a very good answer. I've also not yet used the Timeless Aluminum (I have one though so I will).

The Mühle Rocca R95 is a very good razor but perhaps not for me a Daily Driver although that remains undetermined.

Happy shaves,

Jim

You cannot escape.....Embrace your inner Shaving ADD.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I like it pretty well, but have been distracted by the Mühle Rocca R95 which is definitely more efficient, and also smooth feeling, and also not prone to biting me. I'm figuring out whether the R95 can be used as a Daily Driver. It might be a razor which leaves my skin feeling "overdone" (which is in the direction of razor burn but not that far along the continuum). It might be I just need to dial in my technique (lighten up even more) with the R95.

I didn't use the Slim much. That doesn't mean I don't like it. I think it more efficient than the 95 OC, but not a lot more efficient. The Ti Slim SB is more to my liking than the SS Slim OC I tried for only eight shaves around last Christmas time. The Ti Slim SB is also much more to my liking that the Bronze 78 OC. I like all these baseplates, but I'm looking for the best in terms of Daily Driver.

I have by no means given up on the Ti Slim SB (or the Ti 95 OC for that matter; the 95 OC is a damn good baseplate - super mild feeling & pretty efficient & certainly Daily Driver good - but I want even more efficiency (meaning a better ability to smooth my soul patch).

I might be looking for the Pegasus Unicorn of course.

I know that's not a very good answer. I've also not yet used the Timeless Aluminum (I have one though so I will).

The Mühle Rocca R95 is a very good razor but perhaps not for me a Daily Driver although that remains undetermined.

Happy shaves,

Jim

It's possible I may end up voting (which I've not done yet) for the Timeless Aluminum.

SOTD tells what I'm thinking and why.

Happy shaves to you,

Jim

 

[gdawg55]

I just acquired a Ti Slim SB and have shaved with it 3 times so far. It is super smooth, but I wouldn't call it very efficient. So far I would say the regular .68 is more efficient and the .95 is much more efficient. I'm kind of disappointed as I thought the Slim was their most aggressive/efficient razor. So far not seeing it.....it's not aggressive or efficient. It is smooth though.

 

[Ckmaui]

I just acquired a Ti Slim SB and have shaved with it 3 times so far. It is super smooth, but I wouldn't call it very efficient. So far I would say the regular .68 is more efficient and the .95 is much more efficient. I'm kind of disappointed as I thought the Slim was their most aggressive/efficient razor. So far not seeing it.....it's not aggressive or efficient. It is smooth though.

Well that is interesting
is it the cap or the bar ? Thought it was just the cap

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Well that is interesting
is it the cap or the bar ? Thought it was just the cap

This is the 95 OC Ti baseplate with the cap and handle of the Bronze.​

The cap is the same on the 68, 95, and the Slim. Only the baseplates are different.

All the SS, Ti, and Bronze parts are interchangeable.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[never-stop-learning]

I just acquired a Ti Slim SB and have shaved with it 3 times so far. It is super smooth, but I wouldn't call it very efficient. So far I would say the regular .68 is more efficient and the .95 is much more efficient. I'm kind of disappointed as I thought the Slim was their most aggressive/efficient razor. So far not seeing it.....it's not aggressive or efficient. It is smooth though.

Interesting. To me, The Ti Slim is more efficient than the Ti or Stainless .68 and the Bronze .38. The Stainless .95 and the Ti Slim are somewhere in the same ballpark (now that I have the Slim, I have to shave with my Stainless .95 OC to reset my memory). The Bronze .78 is most efficient of all.

Just my opinion.

 

[gdawg55]

Interesting. To me, The Ti Slim is more efficient than the Ti or Stainless .68 and the Bronze .38. The Stainless .95 and the Ti Slim are somewhere in the same ballpark (now that I have the Slim, I have to shave with my Stainless .95 OC to reset my memory). The Bronze .78 is most efficient of all.

Just my opinion.

That's what I was thinking that it should be close to the .95 or better, but that's not what I'm getting as far as results. With the Slim I'm having to do a 4th pass with touch ups and still have stubble remaining (like stubble 7 hours or so after a good shave) which is too much for me. I'm going to try a few different blades to make sure it's not the Astra that's causing it....but that's my go to blade for all new razors and I typically get fantastic shaves with them. On a positive note, I find the Slim super smooth.

On the efficiency scale, the Slim so far doesn't rank within my top 10 razors which is disappointing. I'm hoping this changes with different blades and more practice with it. I do like the feel and smoothness as well as the slimmer profile head.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

That's what I was thinking that it should be close to the .95 or better, but that's not what I'm getting as far as results. With the Slim I'm having to do a 4th pass with touch ups and still have stubble remaining (like stubble 7 hours or so after a good shave) which is too much for me. I'm going to try a few different blades to make sure it's not the Astra that's causing it....but that's my go to blade for all new razors and I typically get fantastic shaves with them. On a positive note, I find the Slim super smooth.

On the efficiency scale, the Slim so far doesn't rank within my top 10 razors which is disappointing. I'm hoping this changes with different blades and more practice with it. I do like the feel and smoothness as well as the slimmer profile head.

What are your top ten on the efficiency scale?

Asking for a friend.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[gdawg55]

What are your top ten on the efficiency scale?

Asking for a friend.

Happy shaves,

Jim

For me, my top efficient razors are as follows (the order may change from time to time):
Tatara Nodachi
Henson Ti22 (Med)
EJ 3one6
Muhle Rocca (v4)
H&S 316-P076
Blackbird
Yates M-921
ATT Windsor (CR1 base)
Lupo 95
Timeless 68 OC

The top 8 are all so close, it really depends on the blade and soap being used as which might be the most efficient. Numbers 9-10 drop off a little from the the others, but are still pretty smooth and efficient.

 

[Ckmaui]

View attachment 1288448

This is the 95 OC Ti baseplate with the cap and handle of the Bronze.​

The cap is the same on the 68, 95, and the Slim. Only the baseplates are different.

All the SS, Ti, and Bronze parts are interchangeable.

Happy shaves,

Jim

thanks that is a optical illusion for my eyes

also fun to see that two tone as I want to make one of those

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

For me, my top efficient razors are as follows (the order may change from time to time):
Tatara Nodachi
Henson Ti22 (Med)
EJ 3one6
Muhle Rocca (v4)
H&S 316-P076
Blackbird
Yates M-921
ATT Windsor (CR1 base)
Lupo 95
Timeless 68 OC

The top 8 are all so close, it really depends on the blade and soap being used as which might be the most efficient. Numbers 9-10 drop off a little from the the others, but are still pretty smooth and efficient.

Thank you. Interesting to see the Timeless 68 OC there instead of the 95 OC or the Slim, Bronze, or Aluminum, but I've not used the 68 at all.

Of the ones you list I have the Blackbird in SS, the Lupo 95, and the Mühle Rocca R95.

Happy shaves,

Jim