What on Earth is this thing?

[eKretz]

I picked this stone up at a local flea market a few weeks ago as a mystery hone - so filthy there was no telling what it was. Now that I have cleaned it up I still have no clue! Any ideas? If you are reading this Sebastian or Peter, on slurry it quite reminds me of the Frankonian. It cuts fast as heck and leaves a bit coarser finish - maybe 4 to 6kish. After about 150 or 200 laps cutting speed drops off and it polishes a little more. Haven't done too much playing with it yet as far as trying straight water or oil yet. Also, lots of sparklies in the stone, you should be able to see them in at least some of the pics. Slurry has a touch of reddish to it, about the same as the pic shows. The stone is not hard, not soft, right in the middle. About the same as a medium-hard JNat.

Sunlight pics



End saw cut


Wet


Slurried with DMT

 

[SliceOfLife]

Looks quite a bit like my "welch" hone.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/433376-Thoughts-on-this-natural?p=6924362#post6924362

 

[eKretz]

Also, the sparklies are NOT pyrite. Maybe mica? They are white or translucent/transparent maybe? Scope shot:

 

[kcb5150]

It almost looks like a pierre levant from the end saw cut.

 

[eKretz]

Ian, did you ever get around to playing with that one any further? What are the dimensions on it? This one is about 1.7" wide x 6.9" long x .5" thick.

 

[SliceOfLife]

6 7/8" x 1 5/8"... same dimensions basically, but much thinner Probably 1/4" originally. It's glued to a piece of walnut.

I've used it a time or two, basically your experience with your stone sounds right on. I use it with oil, though.

 

[RusenBG]

Got the same stone q arived soon .I only hone 2 razors with it , it is a Dragon tongue or so i think but it is quite a good stone .

 

[eKretz]

IanIan, this stone does look quite similar to yours but I don't think it's the same. This one cuts like an SOB on a water slurry, seems close to as fast as a 4 - 5k synth. On straight water and an Atoma 400 lap it barely does anything. On oil and a 400 Atoma lap it cuts barely more. 100 laps on oil with "eraser" pressure netted a tiny amount of swarf on a paper towel wipe and a hazy mirror finish. I'm puzzled. Oh, and when lapped it puts off a scent sort of like some JNats, that sort of earthy/cigarish smell. Pretty sure it's not a JNat though, never seen one with weird sparklies like this.

 

[hatzicho]

It looks like a stone with a matrix based on either slate or fine sandstone with a larger amount of quartz particles in there. Like most stones I have seen, the amount, particle size and form of the included quartz or other abrasive particles determines the cutting speed and end-fineness of the hone. Also the strongness of the binding that hold the quartz particles in the matrix influence the endfinishing capabilities and sharpness.
I have been investigating and playing around a lot with stones originated in the area I live the last month, that exactly fulfill these criterias. Slate or sandstone with quartz in different mixtures and compositions and particle sizes. Some of them are useable for bevel setting, some for the progression and others for endfinishing. Some are not useable at all, others can do the whole thing.
But to come back to your stone - whatever it is - it might be an unknown stone - use it as it is. The most intersting thing in new stones is to find out, what they are able to perform and how they can be used. Thats the thing about it. And I think thats more fun than byuing thuringian no. 23 or find another another well known coticule for the drawer.

 

[eKretz]

Hi Peter, oh I agree fully on that one. I am having fun with it already - it's just SO time-consuming, lol. Pretty sure it's a slate, it sounds very much like one when tapped and has that characteristic smell when lapped. I was just curious if anyone recognized it since it seemed like it was something that must have been sold by a maker at some point somewhere due to the saw marks and regularity of size/shape.

It is very interesting, with a slurry it seems capable of following a 1k or 2k stone no problem, and a dilution I just did gave me a pretty much mirror bevel. Kind of neat.

 

[Doorsch]

Eric are you shure its a slate type stone ? It really reminds me more like some of the finer Sandstone Types, actually i have some of those at home which are:

- two Dalmore Blue stones
- something from US most likely the (Ohio Blue or Queer Creek and another one)
- two german variants
- pierre aiguiser naturelle de Saurat (genre/Type Levant)

The picture from the side cuts really looks more like a sandstone then any slate ive seen,
or is it probably the picture which effects the perspective ?

By the way the smell of cigars is mostly of the house it was stored into, so its again more an indicator for a sandstone.
I hope its ok to tell, i got a lot of stones from Sharpchef for testing, nearly none of the stones (Slates, JNATS, etc.) really s
melled in any way. But both sandstones i got smelled extremely like cigarettes, so i think that the material just absorbs
the air around better then any slate type stones...

I have to admit i own none of these with a reddish type slurry....and the pattern is quite unusual...

I own this one which is still unidentified, which is a fine sandstone typed stone....cant remember the color of the slurry...
it for shure has another pattern on one side....

 

[Alum of Potash]

In wanting to know whether or not it's a Queer Creek, I just slurried one (which I normally would not do). Interesting thing is that the stone is very porous, like a synth, and very homogenous, again like a synth. By porous, in starting with the stone (dedicated water use) in a completely dry state, water on the surface from the running tap sunk in in stages, taking several seconds to evenly saturate the surface. When dry, the stone has a warm, sandy grey quality, when wet it becomes more of a slightly darker blue grey. Slurry is warmer though, more like the color of the stone when dry, and not unlike the slurry shown in the first post, but again, the surface shots in the first post show more irregular patterning than the two Queer Creeks I've got. Also, I would be inclined to call a Queer Creek more of a bevel-setting stone than a mid-range stone, although in use the feeling is quite similar to the Dalmore Blue I tried from Sebastian while I was in France. Oil used with the second Queer Creek (dedicated oil use) leaves it a darker blue grey. They are soft stones, very easy to lap.

 

[Doorsch]

I can underline Alans statement i tested all available Sandstones i own. The first what youll see is that if the stones werent used with oil, it will drink the water away like hell...its like beeing sucked into the stone....this is different for shure when oil was used.

The color on all slurries of the sandstones i tested was more whittish to a darker white/grey....

What i did realize that creating slurry on a Sandstone is mostly a bit more difficult then on a Slate Stone...this is not to be meant in general for all stones, but normally 1-3 laps with my DMT 1200 are enough on a slate stone so that slurry is created, on the all sandstones it took me around 10-14 laps and a bit more pressure until a well visible slurry was created....

Why do i think Erics stone is a Sandstone? I think the picture with the slurry shows it the best...you see the water in the slurry was already a bit soaked into the stone...it just looks to different for me then slurry on a slate type stone would look a like....

 

[kcb5150]

Not mine.. It really looks a hell of a lot like a levant to me.

 

[Doorsch]

Not mine.. It really looks a hell of a lot like a levant to me.

Yes shure Erics stone ;-)

 

[eKretz]

I'm not sure how to call it really but I do know it doesn't drink much water at all and doesn't seem to get thirsty with slurry that I've noticed - that slurry in the pic was a dry slurry, the stone was barely even wet - that took all of about 4 or 5 swipes with a worn out diamond plate with barely more than weight of the plate pressure to make and it has that slateish smell that many slates seem to have. I have several JNats that have this sort of smell and several stones that I know for a fact were never in a smoking household (I dug them out if the ground) that have the sort of cigar-ish smell. I can't definitively say one way or the other though. The end cut pic does sort of resemble sandstone grain, but I'm not sure if that's just the oblique angle of the sun and the way it's lit. I'll take a closer look.

The color dry is more of a gray-brown, and wet more of a dark brownish black. Do the Creek stones or Dalmores have sparklies? Are they showing up on the pics for you guys? I should get some better pics with my real camera.

 

[eKretz]

Forgot to also say I gave the stone a day long heated Simple Green ultrasonic bath to make sure it was fully clean. There is no sign of oil on or in the stone, nor was there when I first got it before the bath.

 

[Alum of Potash]

There are some faint traces of garnets on my water-use Queer Creek, but not what I would call its chief characteristic. If your stone was not used with oil, and it's not thirsty, then it's probably not a Queer Creek.

Just played with my oil-use Queer Creek and it too seems thirsty for oil (needs to be saturated in advance). Faint trace of garnets are not noticeable there, but that's probably because it remains dampened by the oil. These are sandy in feel, like the Dalmores.

Would be nice to have a side view shot and a close-up of some chipped edges corners if there are any...

 

[eKretz]

Nope, no chips and someone lapped the sides - no trace of sedimentary layering that I can make out though. The "tap test" sounds just like a similar hardness JNat in pitch/tone. My sandstone hones sound much more hollow, not that that couldn't vary. I just ran a couple more tests and it's pretty clear that this stone is not optimally used with straight water. Cuts great (very very fast on 1200 Atoma slurry compared to on oil) on slurry, cuts pretty finely but slowly on oil. When finished/lapped with a 1200 Atoma I'd say it will easily be able to put on a shaveable edge with oil.

 

[eKretz]

Couple more photos - as you can see the sparklies are pervasive - they're everywhere. Anything that looks white is one of the sparkles - looks kind of like glitter.