What is the most “Scotch like” Bourbon?

[Whisky]

I guess Weller 12 is gone from the market into unicorn heaven?

It’s out there if you have the money. There’s a liquor store close to me that has the entire Weller line as well as the entire Pappy line. Usually there are at least 2 sets of each. I’ll try to get pics if I go back. The Pappy 23 is $6k a bottle and the Weller 12, if I remember correctly, was $1k a bottle. I don’t go there much because of the insane price gouging. According to staff they sell bottles at these prices “frequently.”

 

[BudgetShaverGuy]

The laws required to make Bourbon are what limits its greatness. They are all very similar to me, but if pressed I’ll drink Bulleit, it’s pretty well balanced for a Bourbon and perfect in an Old Fashioned.

The reason Scotch is Scotch is because it’s much more of a free and creative product, not limited by silly laws. And most ironically some distilleries love using the used first-fill casks that are no longer allowed to be used by American Bourbon distillers!

 

[ByMyBeard]

It’s out there if you have the money. There’s a liquor store close to me that has the entire Weller line as well as the entire Pappy line. Usually there are at least 2 sets of each. I’ll try to get pics if I go back. The Pappy 23 is $6k a bottle and the Weller 12, if I remember correctly, was $1k a bottle. I don’t go there much because of the insane price gouging. According to staff they sell bottles at these prices “frequently.”

While I'd be slightly interested in stepping into this store to see it in person, I'd almost refuse to every purchase anything there. I'd also really question their definition of "frequently". Those bourbon's aren't even what I would consider frequently available.

 

[Whisky]

While I'd be slightly interested in stepping into this store to see it in person, I'd almost refuse to every purchase anything there. I'd also really question their definition of "frequently". Those bourbon's aren't even what I would consider frequently available.

The only reason I go there is because occasionally they get some of the harder to find craft beers. This store is the “flagship” of local chain. Every bottle they get that’s allotted goes to this store. I have wondered what “frequently” means as well but so far have been unable to get a straight answer.

 

[tankerjohn]

The laws required to make Bourbon are what limits its greatness. They are all very similar to me, but if pressed I’ll drink Bulleit, it’s pretty well balanced for a Bourbon and perfect in an Old Fashioned.

The reason Scotch is Scotch is because it’s much more of a free and creative product, not limited by silly laws. And most ironically some distilleries love using the used first-fill casks that are no longer allowed to be used by American Bourbon distillers!

Wow, how many ways can I disagree? First of all, saying bourbon laws limit its greatness is a bit like saying Champaign laws limits Champaign's greatness. It just is what it is. You can play tennis without a net, but you're not playing tennis anymore. Bourbon is bourbon, and if you don't like, there are many other North American whiskeys bursting with creativity not bounded by Bourbon laws. But they ain't bourbon. And that's fine. Bottom's up!

Secondly, I like that bourbon is governed by all these arcane laws. I wouldn't want it any other way. I mean, really, this was the birth of consumer protection laws. Back in the day, whiskey was a huge part of the national economy (remember the Whiskey Rebellion?) and there were a lot of phonies trying to capitalize on the popularity of this particular style of whiskey from Bourbon County, Kentucky. I mean, watering it down, adding brown dye - the works. How were legit bourbon distillers supposed to compete with that in a day and age when it was hard for consumers to get objective information on products? Drinking bourbon, you're drinking history basically. You're drinking a well governed society with protections for makers and consumers. I like that.

Thirdly, sometimes by setting up creative restraints, you can actually increase creativity in others ways. Go listen to Peter Gabriel's third album sometimes, usually labeled "Peter Gabriel 3: Melt". Peter forbade his drummers from using cymbals. The result - an album full of groundbreaking drumming performances, including the first use of the "gated" reverb sound that would dominate 1980's pop and rock music. Bourbon is like that too. By strictly limiting the type of barrels that can used, you enhance the importance of other aspects of the aging process like whether the barrels were on the sunny side of the barn or shady side. There are many varieties of bourbon, just from variations in the mash - wheaters, high-rye, etc. BTW, reselling bourbon barrels for Scotch finishing (and craft beer) is also an important part of the economic model of the bourbon industry these days that further fuels creativity in the market. In fact, I do believe that some of the bigger Scotch brands actually bought bourbon distilleries to get access to the casks. So, I mean, really, its all feeding the same ecosystem.

 

[Whisky]

Wow, how many ways can I disagree? First of all, saying bourbon laws limit its greatness is a bit like saying Champaign laws limits Champaign's greatness. It just is what it is. You can play tennis without a net, but you're not playing tennis anymore. Bourbon is bourbon, and if you don't like, there are many other North American whiskeys bursting with creativity not bounded by Bourbon laws. But they ain't bourbon. And that's fine. Bottom's up!

Secondly, I like that bourbon is governed by all these arcane laws. I wouldn't want it any other way. I mean, really, this was the birth of consumer protection laws. Back in the day, whiskey was a huge part of the national economy (remember the Whiskey Rebellion?) and there were a lot of phonies trying to capitalize on the popularity of this particular style of whiskey from Bourbon County, Kentucky. I mean, watering it down, adding brown dye - the works. How were legit bourbon distillers supposed to compete with that in a day and age when it was hard for consumers to get objective information on products? Drinking bourbon, you're drinking history basically. You're drinking a well governed society with protections for makers and consumers. I like that.

Thirdly, sometimes by setting up creative restraints, you can actually increase creativity in others ways. Go listen to Peter Gabriel's third album sometimes, usually labeled "Peter Gabriel 3: Melt". Peter forbade his drummers from using cymbals. The result - an album full of groundbreaking drumming performances, including the first use of the "gated" reverb sound that would dominate 1980's pop and rock music. Bourbon is like that too. By strictly limiting the type of barrels that can used, you enhance the importance of other aspects of the aging process like whether the barrels were on the sunny side of the barn or shady side. There are many varieties of bourbon, just from variations in the mash - wheaters, high-rye, etc. BTW, reselling bourbon barrels for Scotch finishing (and craft beer) is also an important part of the economic model of the bourbon industry these days that further fuels creativity in the market. In fact, I do believe that some of the bigger Scotch brands actually bought bourbon distilleries to get access to the casks. So, I mean, really, its all feeding the same ecosystem.

That pretty much sum up my response as well. The fact that everybody is playing by the same rules is what makes Bourbon so interesting. Bourbon’s from the same distiller that use the same mashbill can be similar (That’s why Weller is so scarce now) but two distilleries 45 miles away will produce bourbons that taste entirely different.

 

[ChiefHA]

Got this as a Christmas present from my ex-son-in-law this weekend pretty sure it won't taste like scotch...... But it is a reserve so who knows

 

[Doc4]

My dad is a huge Scotch fan as am I. He has zero experience with bourbon except for the odd Jack shot or bourbon and Coke.

I had a neat Buffalo Trace tonight and thought that someone that wasn’t a whisky fan might think it was a scotch. Much more so than any Canadian Rye. My dad was asking why I was such a bourbon fan, and I was hoping to do a little tasting at Christmas.

In your opinion, what is the bourbon that is closest to scotch?

I'd say rather than trying to find him a bourbon that is "like scotch" ... just find good bourbon you like and let him try it. It's not about showing him that the US can make a whisky just like the scots do ... but that the US can make it's own great stuff that is totally different but still high quality and enjoyable.

If I go to Naples, I want a "classic" pizza. If I go to New York, I want a different pizza ... and deep dish in Chicago.





But if he likes Johnnie Walker Red ... get him Jack Daniels. They are both over-hyped mediocrity, so he'll be right at home.

 

[tknx]

I find that Rye might be a better “in the middle” drink. I used to be a big bourbon drinker but now I find Ryes more my speed because they don’t taste as overly sweet.

 

[Buster]

Maybe look at wheat-ed bourbons or other American whiskey with low rye. I’m a big scotch fan and like makers mark cask strength. I’m starting to explore American whiskey And Japanese whisky also. The Japanese seems more scotch like from what I have sampled so far.

I have also started to explore cognac. Remy Martin 1738 , $60 or ABK6 VSOP is $34. the ABK6 is like a nice light scotch with a slightly sweet fruit flavor.

 

[Engineered_Shave]

I've had the luxury of acquiring some Courage & Conviction recently, it is surprisingly sweet and "smooth" for a bourbon. Usually most bourbons have a harsh edge to them, but this is an easy pour by good contrast.

Courage & Conviction American Single Malt Whisky - https://vadistillery.com/courage-and-conviction

Another very easy-drinking bourbon would be Knob Creek 12 or maybe even 15. I only have the 12 now and that's quite tasty, easy to get down. No harsh, bitter edge thankfully. Sweet enough from the first-fill oak that it's almost like a heavily alcoholic Dr. Pepper, but of course there is much more to the flavor profile than that.

 

[TexLaw]

Asking for the most "Scotch-like bourbon" is sort of like asking for the most "cat-like dog." They are different animals. Bourbon and Scotch might both be distilled from mashed cereal grains and aged in barrels, but that's about as similar as they get. No matter how you slice it, the prominent corn character in bourbon quite clearly distinguishes it from Scotch. That doesn't mean someone can't like them both, but it doesn't really serve to think of one while attempting to appreciate the other.

I like the idea of an intermediate whisk(e)y. While I agree that a good rye with a strong malted barley component in the grain bill is a good idea, I dare say that Irish whiskey is a better intermediate between Scotch and bourbon when coming from the Scotch side. The malt character will be more familiar, but there's something about Irish Whiskey that makes me think of bourbon. It could be the sweetness. Like Scotch, Irish whiskey is not the same as bourbon or even all that close, but it's closer and sort of evokes some of the same palate ideas.

Other than that, look for a bourbon that has a strong malted barley component in the grain bill (but "strong" would be something like 8-10%). The aforementioned Angel's Envy is a mighty good start in that regard and for the other reasons mentioned. Four Roses isn't a bad place to start, either, even if the malted barley only clocks in at 5%.

 

[Tirvine]

This is an interesting thread, sort of looking for whiskey/whisky that is in between two different liquors. I find Knob Creek rye very much in that vein, like a high rye bourbon not constrained by the legal definition of bourbon. I love it, but it is more like a bourbon than a traditional rye to me. I am biased towards pretty much any of the Knob Creek products although I have not tried (and likely won't) the maple expression.

 

[FL shaver]

Woodford Rye leans bourbon sweet. It is a smooth sipper and nice mixer if you don't need heavy rye spice.