What is going on in the wet shaving world?

[sidpost]

Those Alpine sediments are near end of life after thousands of years. Kidding aside, my well water is a good reason to get bottled water. Otherwise it’s nuts. Bottled water was up to $2.49 per gallon. I remember when gasoline was cheaper. In Chicago they put an extra tax on bottled water.

In my case, my well water is super soft and comes from the same place as Nestle Waters in Hawkins, Texas!

When I lived in Oklahoma (North of OKC), our well water was pretty hard and later municipal water was really hard too. The oil boom also killed some rural farmstead wells with salt water. Our personal windmills were all tied to a water well FWIW.

 

[sidpost]

I'm one of those new shavers who has bought in to the newest shaving fads, I guess. I no longer have any Vintage Gillette razors but I have deep respect for them and for the people who enjoy them. Oooopss. I still have the SuperSpeed birth quarter and year razor @luvmysuper PIF'd me. I'll never sell that one.

I'm quite content with the small collection of DE and SE AC razors I've assembled over the past few months. All of them give me a 12 shave, while being comfortable, relaxing and smooth, while shaving that closely.

Modern DE safety razors are nothing to be ashamed of or frowned upon. They work really well and many of them are works of art in addition to being functional shavers.

Heck, I'm looking for a Birch Muhle Mocca handle right now even though my stainless one works fine! If waking up in the morning and seeing that Birch beauty at the sink brings a smile to my face or a flutter to my heart, it is money well spent!

And let's be honest, even my recent Muhle Mocca purchase was less than it costs to fill the gas tank in my car so, in relative terms, buying a razor or two every few months is a pretty minor expense for most people. Most of my Edwin Jagger and Muhle options were ~$30~$45 so for me, less than half a tank of gas. That diesel pickup makes a Muhle Mocca brand new look really cheap!

All that being said, if I turn up a Gilette legacy razor like shown above for ~$30~$50, I'd be all over it at the flea market or antique store! For myself, the old ball-end Gilette I have shaves really well for me.

 

[Dobric]

Cart razors gave me ingrown hairs and bad shaves, then i bought DE razor on aliexpress for 2.5€ and I could have stooped there, shaves were good, but I have sort of collector's soul, so I'm slowly making my razor collection, do I need them? No, but I like it and it 's a hobby. Now I'm using EJ3One6 and I love it.

 

[gpjoe]

I have never really understood the bottled water thing.

I remember a label I read. There was a nice artwork of geological layers, beautifully done. The blurb basically said This water has been naturally filtrating through Alpine sediments since the last Ice Age to bring you the purest experience..or somesuch.

So why was there a 'Best Before End Sept 23' on the cap?

Hmmm...sounds like the millions of gallons of water being sold by my state (Michigan) to Nestle. When the glaciers melted/receded less than 10,000 years ago, the Mitten was left surrounded by the Great Lakes, and our desperately greedy ex-governor sold a large part of our greatest resource - the largest fresh water supply on the planet.

I'm sure Nestle could (may?) claim that the water was filtered caveman water, and they would have a strong argument.

 

[selbedj]

Hmmm...sounds like the millions of gallons of water being sold by my state (Michigan) to Nestle. When the glaciers melted/receded less than 10,000 years ago, the Mitten was left surrounded by the Great Lakes, and our desperately greedy ex-governor sold a large part of our greatest resource - the largest fresh water supply on the planet.

I'm sure Nestle could (may?) claim that the water was filtered caveman water, and they would have a strong argument.

Gpjoe, do you live near Evart?

 

[gpjoe]

Gpjoe, do you live near Evart?

Not too far, about 60mi NE of Evart. I do get to Clare now and then. There's a great antique shop there (found a basket full of Gillette razors, individually wrapped for $10 ea) and of course Jays Sporting Goods.

I'm a transplant from SE Michigan.

 

[mozartman]

I've purchased two NOS nickel plated ball-end Techs on the 'bay for not much more than 15 bucks. They are both essentially brand new razors and they shave great. Being plated brass they will out live me.

I've also got many user-grade Techs (and a pile of Gillette TTOs), found at antique stores 5-10 bucks, that perform flawlessly.



Yes, you can. I bought a new Feather ASD2 for $170 that is pretty much a modern Tech clone, that shaves the same, for only 10 times the cost.

I'm not trying to argue, or down modern stuff. I have several modern razors. I'm just trying to illustrate that the vintage razors are just as worthy, and certainly capable, for a LOT less $$$.

I understand what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree. Brand-new razors can be had at a relatively low price that far outperform my Old Type, Tech and Slim, which are the best performing of my oldies. I would add "for me", but the difference is great enough that I can't pretend it isn't there objectively. Though my vintage razors look good to the naked eye, looking at them under high magnification, you can see slight alignment inaccuracies and signs of wear that almost certainly affect performance.

Sure, I could keep hunting for better vintage specimens, and/or pay more than the approximately $15 that I paid for each of mine. But that would take much more time and money. RazoRock (I have no affiliation) had brand new models for as little as $7 (OK, maybe $10 now) that work better, including Old Type and Tech clones with beautiful steel handles that are still only $20. And if the chrome-plated zamak heads bother you, for $30 you can upgrade to one of the high-grade steel Game Changer heads that simply are better made than the original Old Type or Tech heads they are based on and to me perform vastly better.

Don't get me wrong, I think the vintage razor hobby is great, and more power to you if you have managed to snag some truly mint examples. But to suggest that everyone buying new razors is falling for a scam and should use an old Tech instead just isn't telling it like it is. As for those $300-$400 razors, I have no experience and can't comment.

 

[gpjoe]

I understand what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree. Brand-new razors can be had at a relatively low price that far outperform my Old Type, Tech and Slim, which are the best performing of my oldies. I would add "for me", but the difference is great enough that I can't pretend it isn't there objectively. Though my vintage razors look good to the naked eye, looking at them under high magnification, you can see slight alignment inaccuracies and signs of wear that almost certainly affect performance.

Sure, I could keep hunting for better vintage specimens, and/or pay more than the approximately $15 that I paid for each of mine. But that would take much more time and money. RazoRock (I have no affiliation) had brand new models for as little as $7 (OK, maybe $10 now) that work better, including Old Type and Tech clones with beautiful steel handles that are still only $20. And if the chrome-plated zamak heads bother you, for $30 you can upgrade to one of the high-grade steel Game Changer heads that simply are better made than the original Old Type or Tech heads they are based on and to me perform vastly better.

Don't get me wrong, I think the vintage razor hobby is great, and more power to you if you have managed to snag some truly mint examples. But to suggest that everyone buying new razors is falling for a scam and should use an old Tech instead just isn't telling it like it is. As for those $300-$400 razors, I have no experience and can't comment.

You're attributing a statement to me that I never made.

I never have, nor ever will, suggest that "everyone buying new razors is falling for a scam and should use an old Tech".

Please stop, "respectfully".

 

[sidpost]

Yes, finding a mint old Gilette razor is a bit like the talk about finding that magical cast iron skillet at an antique store or flea market for $5.

After hundreds of dollars of gasoline and hundreds of hours spent pawing through junk, you might get lucky and find what you are looking for. Personally, it is cheaper (and easier) to just buy the modern skillet or razor that fits your desires.

 

[kingfisher]

I have never really understood the bottled water thing.

I remember a label I read. There was a nice artwork of geological layers, beautifully done. The blurb basically said This water has been naturally filtrating through Alpine sediments since the last Ice Age to bring you the purest experience..or somesuch.

So why was there a 'Best Before End Sept 23' on the cap?

Bottled water was necessary because there weren't enough microplastics in tap water.

 

[mozartman]

You're attributing a statement to me that I never made.

I never have, nor ever will, suggest that "everyone buying new razors is falling for a scam and should use an old Tech".

Please stop, "respectfully".

My most humble apologies. It was the original post in this thread that I was thinking of in that regard, not yours. Also, I sincerely think it's great you've found some mint vintage specimens for a low price. Good luck to you in the hunt for more.

 

[Calyshaver]

Yes, finding a mint old Gilette razor is a bit like the talk about finding that magical cast iron skillet at an antique store or flea market for $5.

After hundreds of dollars of gasoline and hundreds of hours spent pawing through junk, you might get lucky and find what you are looking for. Personally, it is cheaper (and easier) to just buy the modern skillet or razor that fits your desires.

Yes, for many of us, it is the thrill of the chase. The thrill of the kill wears off pretty quickly, at least for me. Then there is the whole historical and nostalgic facet of vintage items that appeal to some more than others.

Many home buyers cherish the Craftsman homes, for example, versus the track homes here in SoCal that have 1/8" stucco exterior skin on top of another 1/2" of foam insulation and then the framing and interior drywall. Tear open a early or mid 20th century East coast interior wall and it is built better than these houses. Both work as shelter, just in different ways and levels of performance.

 

[timetofly]

So far as I can tell nobody has revolutionized wet shaving by creating the greatest razor ever. Gillette did that in the middle of the last century.

Agree 110%

 

[lasta]

Bottled water in Europe is a thing because of early waterborne illnesses from poor sanitation practices from human and animal wastes primarily but, other wastes too from what today we would call industrial processes (think tanning and similar things).

Back before modern medicine, people would go to areas in the "mountains" for "fresh air" and "healing waters" because it was upstream from the wastes making them sick.

The waterborne illness issue is also a big reason for beer and ciders being such an integral part of the culture early on because the alcohol killed off a lot of things that made people ill from the available water sources.

Today, beer is essentially a staple like bread in some areas because it provides the calories needed for a lot of manual labor. Not so different from frying foods in the American South when agriculture and forestry were essentially manual labor occupations.

That legacy still largely holds today from my experience in Europe because people generally don't drink "still water" and normally consume mineral waters. Beer is also treated much differently than in the USA. Beer in the USA is treated less like a food staple and more like a biblical sin from our puritan ancestors and to me generally lacks flavor unless you get away from the mass produced beers. Bottled water in the USA has become a convenience because water fountains are few and far between. Later, the flavored water varieties caught on and essentially become competitive with soda pop but with a healthier perception (less sugar and pseudo-fruit flavorings).

Personally, I'm drinking a lot more bottled tea and to a certain extent, milk/cream-based canned coffees. Being a bachelor, brewing a full pot of coffee is generally wasteful because I just don't drink that much. Beer has gotten so expensive locally, sadly, I don't get a chance to buy much of the tasty 'craft' varieties with inflation taking such a bit bite of my disposable income for recurring food-related purchases. In my case, a descent 1.75L bottle of bourbon costs less than a 12-pack of something like Shiner Bock, Modelo, or similar beers.

Yeah, inflation sucks!

Soon, I might have to trade in a Tech a week to keep up with my weekend 24's of Labatt!

 

[timetofly]

I have never really understood the bottled water thing.

I remember a label I read. There was a nice artwork of geological layers, beautifully done. The blurb basically said This water has been naturally filtrating through Alpine sediments since the last Ice Age to bring you the purest experience..or somesuch.

So why was there a 'Best Before End Sept 23' on the cap?

Because it is no longer naturally filtrating through Alpine sediments from the last Ice Age.

 

[mozartman]

gpjoe said:
So far as I can tell nobody has revolutionized wet shaving by creating the greatest razor ever. Gillette did that in the middle of the last century.

Agree 110%

I'm not going to argue with that. It's hard not to notice how nearly all the "new" razors are based on those old designs. My first "new" DE razor, a Merkur 34C, is basically a Gillette clone that came out in the 1920s, shortly after Gillette's original 1903 and 1904 patents expired. The new DE razor makers haven't come up with some vastly better and significantly new design, at least not one I've tried or can afford. Nor can they duplicate Gillette's ingenious vintage methods for stamping brass parts, though that may be due to lack of economies of scale. But they do have the advantage of modern technologies like CNC machining, that make it possible to achieve greater precision and use materials that are stronger and lighter than brass, like 316L stainless steel and type 2 titanium.

People who are lucky enough to live near a good antique shop or patient enough to hunt online may find some mint condition old brass razors, and that's great. But brass does deform and corrode over time, especially with the rough treatment of many razor users back in the day, my own father included. I don't know why some here refuse to acknowledge those basic facts of physics and chemistry.

 

[robertj298]

I'm not going to argue with that. It's hard not to notice how nearly all the "new" razors are based on those old designs. My first "new" DE razor, a Merkur 34C, is basically a Gillette clone that came out in the 1920s, shortly after Gillette's original 1903 and 1904 patents expired. The new DE razor makers haven't come up with some vastly better and significantly new design, at least not one I've tried or can afford. Nor can they duplicate Gillette's ingenious vintage methods for stamping brass parts, though that may be due to lack of economies of scale. But they do have the advantage of modern technologies like CNC machining, that make it possible to achieve greater precision and use materials that are stronger and lighter than brass, like 316L stainless steel and type 2 titanium.

People who are lucky enough to live near a good antique shop or patient enough to hunt online may find some mint condition old brass razors, and that's great. But brass does deform and corrode over time, especially with the rough treatment of many razor users back in the day, my own father included. I don't know why some here refuse to acknowledge those basic facts of physics and chemistry.

That’s funny I’ve never seen a brass razor deform or corrode even after 100 years

 

[gpjoe]

Yes, finding a mint old Gilette razor is a bit like the talk about finding that magical cast iron skillet at an antique store or flea market for $5.

After hundreds of dollars of gasoline and hundreds of hours spent pawing through junk, you might get lucky and find what you are looking for. Personally, it is cheaper (and easier) to just buy the modern skillet or razor that fits your desires.

I've found many nice razors in antique shops for $5 and $10, very few were "mint", though some were close.

I've found a like-new condition boxed Fatboy in a shop, a boxed Aristocrat in good condition in a shop, an unboxed Aristocrat in good shape, a mint lady's Blue Star Superspeed, an Old Type Bulldog for 10 bucks in a shop. It was black with tarnish but polished up nicely. A Slim ($6), a Senator ($10), a Milord, two 40s Superspeeds, two New Long Combs, a New Short Comb, a Red Tip ($5), 3 or 4 Techs ($10 or less) in excellent used condition. Several Gem SE razors, and 5 Schick SE razors. Full bottles of Avon aftershave for $2, and glass bottles of Old Spice for $10. All in shops near my home over the last year.

And I've shaved with nearly every one of the DE razors.

My NOS Techs both were part of two unused mens travel kits I found on the 'bay. Both came to me with the paper "blade" installed in the head. I know that doesn't mean that they were unused, but they both look time-capsule new.

They aren't hen's teeth, you just need to look, and use creative Ebay search terms like "vintage men's travel kit" instead of the obvious "vintage Gillette Tech" or "vintage Gillette razor".

...and I'm retired, so I have plenty of time, and enjoy combing through antique stores and shows - not just for razors. I find it fascinating, and nothing beats seeing that box that says "Gillette" on it and opening it to find...???

 

[gpjoe]

I'm not going to argue with that. It's hard not to notice how nearly all the "new" razors are based on those old designs. My first "new" DE razor, a Merkur 34C, is basically a Gillette clone that came out in the 1920s, shortly after Gillette's original 1903 and 1904 patents expired. The new DE razor makers haven't come up with some vastly better and significantly new design, at least not one I've tried or can afford. Nor can they duplicate Gillette's ingenious vintage methods for stamping brass parts, though that may be due to lack of economies of scale. But they do have the advantage of modern technologies like CNC machining, that make it possible to achieve greater precision and use materials that are stronger and lighter than brass, like 316L stainless steel and type 2 titanium.

People who are lucky enough to live near a good antique shop or patient enough to hunt online may find some mint condition old brass razors, and that's great. But brass does deform and corrode over time, especially with the rough treatment of many razor users back in the day, my own father included. I don't know why some here refuse to acknowledge those basic facts of physics and chemistry.

The most common deformity that I've seen is bent teeth on the old open combs, which I suppose is from dropping a soft brass razor onto the floor or (*gasp*) banging it on the sink to clear it, but deformities can happen to modern brass razors too, if mistreated or handled carelessly.

 

[gpjoe]

My most humble apologies. It was the original post in this thread that I was thinking of in that regard, not yours. Also, I sincerely think it's great you've found some mint vintage specimens for a low price. Good luck to you in the hunt for more.

I'm fine, thank you.