What stones do you have? With your pasted strop you could get a coticule and you'd have all the stone you'll ever need. I hear it can be difficult using a coticule when you first start honing razors but I didn't have to much trouble because I've got experience honing lots of other stuff. You could get a coticule from Ardennes-Coticule, just email them and tell them what you need it for, there's a couple veins that would be useful for your needs(for knives too). If you go that route I suggest getting a les lat, it's all the stone you'll ever need to keep a razor sharp.I am soon going to purchase my 1st real SR. The initial one I bought from Amazon, claiming to be "shave ready" is definitely not, from the discussions I've had on this site so far.
So, as I'm saving for the "real" SR that I want, I'd like to learn what equipment, moderately priced, not the cheapest, but not way overboard either, that I need to possess to hone and strop my own blades.
By way of background, I am a knife nut, and collect, carry, use, and sharpen all of my regular EDC carry knives. I've managed, with the equipment and methods I use, to usually obtain a beyond razor sharp edge on most of them, and for me it really depends on the steel and my patience.
So, in preparation for doing the same for any SR's I may currently/eventually possess, what is the most moderate cost essential equipment I need to do as I need to to maintain the edge on the SR?
I know next to nothing about honing a SR, as it is way thinner than any EDC knives I carry. I'm also certain that I need to learn stropping. I own a strop, mounted to wood, dual sided, that I use on my regular knives. One side is the suede side loaded with CrOx, the other side is smooth leather that I treat with Dia-Spray, .5 micron, for the final polished edge. I'm curious if any of this can be of any use to me in the SR world.
Also own 2 regular leather strops. But, just recently acquired them, when I got the supposedly "shave ready" SR from Amazon. So, this blade I will keep to practice techniques on.
I wish you guys to educate me on the bare essentials I need to maintain a "good" blade. The following link is what I am thinking of getting.
Boker Carbon Elite 3.0 140544 6/8 Straight Razor, Professionally Honed
I have professionally sharpened each of these razors and performed a shave test. These razors are SHAVE READY. The razor will be pre- stropped and oiled - just wipe off the oil and shave!!!Note: These are honed to order, there will be a brief delay in shipping in order to prepare the...maggardrazors.com
So, I'm now ready for my education!
I thank all of you who may participate in this discussion.
Thanks.
What equipment, at moderate cost, do I need...
- Thread starter PittViper
- Start date
Is this always the case, or is it possible to use the 0.1u diamond pasted balsa strop to maintain the edge (mostly) indefinitely? Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I'm finding some conflicting info about this and it's confusing.
I can see how it would be.
One of the variables is shave angle. I have seen under the microscope how a high angle can quickly take divots out of an edge that no 0.1 micron balsa strop will fix. Gotta go to the stones for that.
At some point, you have to just rely on your own experience with your own shaves. Heck, I can barely get three shaves out of a razor before I go back to the finishing stones. It looks fine under the microscope, except for really small divots. But I'm addicted to that clean fresh edge, so I do what works for me.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Once the razor has been honed to a good 12k or 1µ edge and then ran through the balsa progression, .5µ, .25, and .1µ, with the balsa properly set up, THEN yes, you can maintain indefinitely with only the .1µ diamond balsa. That's a fact. But skipping the first two stages is just skipping too much for the final stage to really do very much. It would be like setting the bevel on 600 grit and then trying to maintain the edge on 12k. Generally a shave ready edge on a razor that you buy will only be honed to the 12k level or thereabouts, or a rough equivelant to that, on naturals.
So, you will want three acrylic blocks, 12" x 3" x 3/4" or thicker, and three pieces of 1/4" thick balsa glued to the acrylic plates, all lapped, and all pasted with their different grits of diamond paste. Thenceforth the first two will gather dust until you buy another "shave ready" razor.
I keep my edges spiffy with just the .1µ balsa, and many others here do likewise. But it won't do much good to a 12k or equivalent edge. You have to run the progression first, and I highly recommend that you do. The edge will absolutely delight you. Skip the first two stages, or do it wrong, and you will wonder what the fuss is all about.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
You are right that a high shave angle can possibly overwhelm a .1µ edge and the same media for maintenance. However a properly done edge at that grit quickly teaches the shaver to use a low angle, simply because an edge that sharp will be prone to giving cuts, weepers, and just plain sensitive and touchy skin. Honestly, I very nearly drag the spine on my face when I shave. a gap of half the spine thickness is the usual advice for that edge. Similar to using a Feather half DE blade in a shavette. The low angle gives a nice comfortable one pass shave. A high angle punishes.
Thanks for clarifying. That makes sense. I have the balsa and paste, just waiting on the acrylic.
I’m no expert but over these last years I’ve travelled happily along the straight razor road and now am at the stage where I can hone and maintain the things and shave well daily. I’ve tried pasted strops, then lapping films, then a synthetic finisher, then some natural stones, coticule, slate, jnat, then the diamond pasted balsa method then back to stones and I’m happily still learning.
My progress to a great edge could definitely have been quicker but I find the journey up the mountain to be a lot of fun.
If you’d like a helicopter straight to the top then the ‘Method’, as described by @slashmccoy is for you. Sharpest edge you’ll probably ever see in your lifetime when you get it right and the method is crystal clear, simple, no nonsense. It’s brilliant.
If you’d like to explore your way up and choose your own route enjoying little stops along the way then this forum is your oyster really. There’s deep knowledge on here which I myself have referred back to and leaned from almost every step of my way it’s an amazing resource to have at your fingertips.
You said that sharpening and honing is something you enjoy anyway so maybe the scenic route is for you.
The most simple and cheap method of maintenance is probably some good quality Chromium Oxide paste on the back of a reasonable strop. If the razor dulls a little then 8-10 strokes on that then 50 on leather will bring it back.
You have a paddle strop which is of course very usable but a hanging strop is nice to use.
If you want to spend a little more then a Naniwa 12k stone is a great buy for around £50 and will maintain your shave ready razor almost indefinitely and it’s very easy to use.
You could get a set of lapping films for about £15 and a flat block of acrylic, or even just one sheet of 1micron lapping film which would do you for a year easy and are fine to learn on.
If you like stones you can buy a Welsh slate finisher for under £50 for a big 8x3 slab.
I started with a piece about 5x1 inch for £15 as my first natural stone. I still use it as the edges from it are brilliant.
You can get a small coticule stone for about £50. Smaller stones take a little getting used to to do an x stroke and keep the edge on the stone but once learned you can hone on anything size wise.
You can keep these flat on a sheet of 600 grit sandpaper once in a while or can buy a useful diamond lapping plate for about £30.
If you’ve only got 2 razors these stones probably wouldn’t even need lapping more than once a year.
Either way with a diamond plate it takes a few seconds.
If you want to spend more then Japanese natural stones are great finishers and they’re very versatile.
Once learned, it’s easy to go from a 1k stone then straight to a jnat with slurry and dilute all the way up to the finish.
This can also be done with the slate if desired.
Either way there are some good options to get started with and all will get a brilliant shaving edge once you learn to use them.
Best of luck
My progress to a great edge could definitely have been quicker but I find the journey up the mountain to be a lot of fun.
If you’d like a helicopter straight to the top then the ‘Method’, as described by @slashmccoy is for you. Sharpest edge you’ll probably ever see in your lifetime when you get it right and the method is crystal clear, simple, no nonsense. It’s brilliant.
If you’d like to explore your way up and choose your own route enjoying little stops along the way then this forum is your oyster really. There’s deep knowledge on here which I myself have referred back to and leaned from almost every step of my way it’s an amazing resource to have at your fingertips.
You said that sharpening and honing is something you enjoy anyway so maybe the scenic route is for you.
The most simple and cheap method of maintenance is probably some good quality Chromium Oxide paste on the back of a reasonable strop. If the razor dulls a little then 8-10 strokes on that then 50 on leather will bring it back.
You have a paddle strop which is of course very usable but a hanging strop is nice to use.
If you want to spend a little more then a Naniwa 12k stone is a great buy for around £50 and will maintain your shave ready razor almost indefinitely and it’s very easy to use.
You could get a set of lapping films for about £15 and a flat block of acrylic, or even just one sheet of 1micron lapping film which would do you for a year easy and are fine to learn on.
If you like stones you can buy a Welsh slate finisher for under £50 for a big 8x3 slab.
I started with a piece about 5x1 inch for £15 as my first natural stone. I still use it as the edges from it are brilliant.
You can get a small coticule stone for about £50. Smaller stones take a little getting used to to do an x stroke and keep the edge on the stone but once learned you can hone on anything size wise.
You can keep these flat on a sheet of 600 grit sandpaper once in a while or can buy a useful diamond lapping plate for about £30.
If you’ve only got 2 razors these stones probably wouldn’t even need lapping more than once a year.
Either way with a diamond plate it takes a few seconds.
If you want to spend more then Japanese natural stones are great finishers and they’re very versatile.
Once learned, it’s easy to go from a 1k stone then straight to a jnat with slurry and dilute all the way up to the finish.
This can also be done with the slate if desired.
Either way there are some good options to get started with and all will get a brilliant shaving edge once you learn to use them.
Best of luck
Note Slash's use of the word "good". I can testify to the fact that a properly honed-to-12k edge can be maintained with the 3-step balsa progression. I can also testify that a not properly honed-to-12k edge cannot, and therein lies the challenge.
If you buy enough razors, you will encounter a not properly honed edge. For this, there are (at least) two options:
- Send the razor to an expert hone meister like @Doc226, or
- Journey down the rabbit hole of edge-leading honing uses materials like film and/or stones
“Is this always the case, or is it possible to use the 0.1u diamond pasted balsa strop to maintain the edge (mostly) indefinitely? Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I'm finding some conflicting info about this and it's confusing.”
-Ed
It depends.
In theory, yes you should be able to maintain a razor with a strop, pasted or unpasted indefinetly, but…
Diamonds no matter how small are aggressive, not all steels can handle diamonds, especially at low bevel angles. If the bevel gets too thin it can micro-chip.
It also largely depends on your stropping skills. Any pasted strop is way more aggressive than a plane strop, and both can ruin an edge with a single stroke.
Even when you think you have master stropping, you will find your edges will improve a year later.
The conflicting, confusing part is/are all the variables, the razor, paste, paste quality, technique, bevel angle, substrate, pressure and honer/stroppers experience. No two of us has exactly the same stones, razor, bevel angle, technique, or experience.
I know for a fact, stropping on Chrome Oxide daily for a year with the same razor, maintained a smooth shaving, keen edge with no measurable wear to the razor. Chrome Oxide is .50um about 20k, aggressive but way less aggressive than .10 Diamond.
Hard to say if it will work for you.
-Ed
It depends.
In theory, yes you should be able to maintain a razor with a strop, pasted or unpasted indefinetly, but…
Diamonds no matter how small are aggressive, not all steels can handle diamonds, especially at low bevel angles. If the bevel gets too thin it can micro-chip.
It also largely depends on your stropping skills. Any pasted strop is way more aggressive than a plane strop, and both can ruin an edge with a single stroke.
Even when you think you have master stropping, you will find your edges will improve a year later.
The conflicting, confusing part is/are all the variables, the razor, paste, paste quality, technique, bevel angle, substrate, pressure and honer/stroppers experience. No two of us has exactly the same stones, razor, bevel angle, technique, or experience.
I know for a fact, stropping on Chrome Oxide daily for a year with the same razor, maintained a smooth shaving, keen edge with no measurable wear to the razor. Chrome Oxide is .50um about 20k, aggressive but way less aggressive than .10 Diamond.
Hard to say if it will work for you.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
That theory is gonna be a tough sell. Especially the "way less" part.
^^ definitely this. I prefer to try the well known and proven-by-my-peers solution first. After I master it, then, maybe, I'll try experimenting on my own.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
@Eben Stone there is still time to stop this foolishness of SR shaving. Think carefully of where this is leading you.
Sorry, maybe I didnt make myself clear. I'm not planning on actually shaving with them. I just like looking at the pretty scales and use them as letter openers. I just want them sharp cause this one time at samurai camp they taught us that everything we own should be sharp.
