What do you think about cholesterol meds?

[shavefan]

I'm always interested in these types of documentaries and will watch it (with an open mind). Thanks for the link

Me and the mrs. just watched it. Very, very interesting. I had no idea about the founding of veganism and some of the reasons why it was thought beneficial (many pubescent teens might take issue!). Some of the content I've heard before in other documentaries but I thought this went a little more in depth to explain the history of the current dietary dogma in the U.S.

A couple things I wish they would have hit on though. For instance the relationship between heart disease and gender. A lot of talk about how males are affected but none about females. Also, this documentary seemed focused on blood sugar levels and cholesterol, I would have liked to have had blood pressure and how it is/isn't affected by dietary changes included.

 

[FarmerTan]

I've got the woman, drink coffee and I have 3 dogs.
In 2016 had a slight heart attack that required a stint.
Been taking my meds since that day and feel pretty good.

Sent from my SM-T387V using Tapatalk

Brother, not long after you posted this, NBC Nightly News had a story on tonight. You could be the poster child! No kidding. It aired tonight, and can be watched for free. I just googled NBC Nightly News and it's about a 2 and a half minute segment. So statins are as effective as a stent in prevention of heart attack or the need for bypass surgery. I recommend everyone watch it. And then do your own research as well, of course. Sounds very promising!

 

[StillShaving]

Brother, not long after you posted this, NBC Nightly News had a story on tonight. You could be the poster child! No kidding. It aired tonight, and can be watched for free. I just googled NBC Nightly News and it's about a 2 and a half minute segment. So statins are as effective as a stent in prevention of heart attack or the need for bypass surgery. I recommend everyone watch it. And then do your own research as well, of course. Sounds very promising!

Interesting. Perhaps I should look up that NBC news report up and compare it to the "FAT a Documentary" section where they pointed out some statistics that claimed that while statins did prevent some heart attacks (not as many as might be assumed) there was no increase in life expectancy.

I think many claims about diet and health have similarity to predicting the weather and economic (governmental policy) outcomes.....too many variables to isolate what is going on.

Edit...I watched the segment and it was addressing a group of people (the study involved 5179 patients in 37 countries) who suffered from a condition known as "stable angina" which is chest pain that might be a percursor to a heart attack, where all were treated with statins and/or aspirin (the news report did not get into details of which only took aspirin) and where half of the patients were additionally treated with a stent/bypass and this second group fared no better in terms of getting a heart attack. Sounds promising and I hope the actual study has more details since one could apply the same basic logic to what was reported and conclude that neither treatment had any affect (neither the drugs or the surgery).

 

[FarmerTan]

Interesting. Perhaps I should look up that NBC news report up and compare it to the "FAT a Documentary" section where they pointed out some statistics that claimed that while statins did prevent some heart attacks (not as many as might be assumed) there was no increase in life expectancy.

I think many claims about diet and health have similarity to predicting the weather and economic (governmental policy) outcomes.....too many variables to isolate what is going on.

Edit...I watched the segment and it was addressing a group of people (the study involved 5179 patients in 37 countries) who suffered from a condition known as "stable angina" which is chest pain that might be a percursor to a heart attack, where all were treated with statins and/or aspirin (the news report did not get into details of which only took aspirin) and where half of the patients were additionally treated with a stent/bypass and this second group fared no better in terms of getting a heart attack. Sounds promising and I hope the actual study has more details since one could apply the same basic logic to what was reported and conclude that neither treatment had any affect (neither the drugs or the surgery).

Thanks for your input! I wondered if I had missed something, and I had. It's almost as if whoever was reading and reporting on it could read stuff into it.

 

[shave/brush]

The first film seems to imply, which I agree with, that the real problem is not cholesterol but carbohydrates.
It mentions that they discovered that in one study but did not publish the results for 16 years. Because not as much money to be made off that as with fighting cholesterol. It all comes down to money sometimes.

 

[beginish]

The first film seems to imply, which I agree with, that the real problem is not cholesterol but carbohydrates.
It mentions that they discovered that in one study but did not publish the results for 16 years. Because not as much money to be made off that as with fighting cholesterol. It all comes down to money sometimes.

Dude, Big Sugar has had us hoodwinked for decades. It’s no coincidence that diabetes and pancreatic cancer have skyrocketed. Obesity is not the only consequence of the modern Western diet.

 

[shavefan]

The first film seems to imply, which I agree with, that the real problem is not cholesterol but carbohydrates.
It mentions that they discovered that in one study but did not publish the results for 16 years. Because not as much money to be made off that as with fighting cholesterol. It all comes down to money sometimes.

Sometimes?

The subject of diet in the U.S reminds me of a recent First Lady that tried to revamp the school lunch program and get junk food and soda vending machines out of schools. Good for her! You'd think given her position she'd have a decent chance at reform, right? Nope, the processed food lobbyists had that squashed quickly. I mean, a watered down, un-effective something or other was passed with great public announcement. But the junk food remains in our schools.

Color me cynical...

 

[shave/brush]

The subject of diet in the U.S reminds me of a recent First Lady that tried to revamp the school lunch program and get junk food and soda vending machines out of schools. Good for her! You'd think given her position she'd have a decent chance at reform, right? Nope, the processed food lobbyists had that squashed quickly. I mean, a watered down, un-effective something or other was passed with great public announcement. But the junk food remains in our schools.
Color me cynical...

I think a big part of that was the kids revolted against it. They rather have their cupcakes than an apple.

 

[shavefan]

I think a big part of that was the kids revolted against it. They rather have their cupcakes than an apple.

I'm sure many kids didn't like the idea. But so what? They don't get a vote. They certainly don't set USDA policy. Adults are supposed to be in charge, right? So instead of meaningful reform we got the USDA to consider pizza, ketchup and french fries as vegetables. Well done adults!

Follow the money...

 

[Esox]

I just googled NBC Nightly News and it's about a 2 and a half minute segment.

I watched that and it left me a bit confused.

They said that taking STAIN drugs and aspirin could replace surgery and is as effective as placing a stent.

I understand they can only cram so much into the short time they had but there are so many conflicting things in that information.

As I'm sure you're aware, just taking a low dose aspirin every day or even every other day can save your life.

In my own case, it wasnt the buildup in my artery that caused the blockage it was the clot that attacked that build up when it burst due to overexertion. The same as my friend with the double bypass. It happened to him when he lifted an 8 foot long concrete window sill while bricking a house.

When my cardiologist removed the blockage he showed it to me. It was virtually all clotted blood and there was only one place, the green line below, any of my arteries had any build up at all.

After I was moved to the CCU he came around he told me how lucky I was that I had come in because I wouldnt have survived the night if I didnt. He went on to explain that the LAD is only the size of the inside of a Bic pen.



What I got from that news segment was, if one was to take a STATIN med, combined with aspirin, they may be able to avoid the entire ordeal. Thats great, but how does one decide if they need to take the med in the first place. Will they be injecting dye into the person and doing an ultrasound to measure blood flow or just suggesting them to people at a certain age, weight, whatever? I see the rationale behind the idea, but that was loaded information.

STATIN drugs work by, literally, poisoning an enzyme in the blood that creates LDL cholesterol. That also has an effect on the muscles and muscle mass. That can be monitored by having CK levels added to the blood test.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.118.312782

Creatine Kinase (Blood) - Health Encyclopedia - University of Rochester Medical Center - https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=167&ContentID=creatine_kinase_blood

Would a regimen of STATIN med use in the years prior to me having the heart attack have prevented it from happening? Possibly, but at what cost.

Would changing my diet and taking better care of myself without any use of medications have prevented that from happening? Yes.

Stay away from junk food and heavily processed foods. They will kill you. They do it slowly and silently so you dont even notice until its too late.

As the saying goes, you are what you eat. Eat fresh and eat well.

 

[shave/brush]

I agree with Esox, junk food and processed foods will kill you. And a little exercise goes a long way.

 

[FarmerTan]

I agree with Esox, junk food and processed foods will kill you. And a little exercise goes a long way.

And it's amazing how just a little exercise can do so much good. Our bodies were not designed to be so sedentary.

My health has always been not the best, congenitally. But through staying active I was in decent shape until my mitral valve finally had enough.

Then years later the replacement valve just finally became less effective. I felt like I had a constant flu. Then I had to go on disability at the top of my game professionally. Then I got depressed and wallowed in self pity, put on 40 pounds and am just now coming out of that dark spot.

So: my bad attitude and my high fatazzium diet has really put me behind the 8 ball. I can't allow myself to have another winter like the last one, or it may be my last one, lol. And in all honesty, I'll have no one to blame but me.

So I hope to press myself in walking every day this winter, and eating more raw carrots and less carrot cake.

 

[StillShaving]

Saw this short clip this morning. Basically contains the same information as in the Saturday night NBC news report, but framed a little differently:

Stable patients 'should not rush' into unnecessary stent, bypass procedures: Dr. Marc Siegel

Stable patients 'should not rush' into unnecessary stent, bypass procedures: Dr. Marc Siegel | Fox Business Video

Dr. Marc Siegel on heart health

video.foxbusiness.com

Stents, bypass surgery no more effective than drugs for heart disease patients: Study | Fox Business Video

Dr. Nesheiwat on heart disease

video.foxbusiness.com

 

[FarmerTan]

Saw this short clip this morning. Basically contains the same information as in the Saturday night NBC news report, but framed a little differently:

Stable patients 'should not rush' into unnecessary stent, bypass procedures: Dr. Marc Siegel

Stable patients 'should not rush' into unnecessary stent, bypass procedures: Dr. Marc Siegel | Fox Business Video

Dr. Marc Siegel on heart health

video.foxbusiness.com

Stents, bypass surgery no more effective than drugs for heart disease patients: Study | Fox Business Video

Dr. Nesheiwat on heart disease

video.foxbusiness.com

Hey! Thanks for posting these. Seemed to have more information.

 

[Tanuki]

About statins. Lifesavers for many, I am sure.

My doctors have been recommending them to me for years, based solely on my age and serum cholesterol numbers. I had a complete heart workup several years back and passed with flying colors, so I was skeptical. My doctors agreed that side effects were probably underreported. I value my unworried, unmedicated, active life.

I grew tired of the repeated pitch and agreed with my doc to go on statins - if imaging of my heart, coronary vessels or carotids showed signs of arteriosclerosis. He ordered the imaging, it all came back negative for problems (positive for me!) so the doc said no statins for this kid.

All I am saying is - get some actual diagnostic testing. Serum cholesterol numbers are just one part of a complex picture. There are better, readily available tests that are far more diagnostic and predictive of heart and vascular problems.

 

[persistent analyst]

I expect my doctor to be better informed that me, even after consulting Google!

 

[StillShaving]

While I expect my doctor to be much better educated and experienced, I also believe there is some art of when to apply certain medicines or procedures and the field of medical knowledge is too deep and board and incomplete for most to be a real expert. Hence the advice about getting a second or third opinion.

I believe that everyone is much better informed about themselves (their personal and family history) than a doctor ever could be based on a short office visit, so I believe it is wise for someone to google or read as much as they can about a topic in order to have a better discussion with their doctor.

 

[FarmerTan]

If you have a doctor who tells you that he considers the practice of medicine to not be both an art and a science, you NEED another doctor.

On two separate occasions I diagnosed my son's pneumonia and he disagreed. Both times x-ray confirmed it. He is a great doctor. I got lucky twice is the way I look at it. I was trained in lung sounds by an old nurse. It is unfair to think that your doctor is infallible. He is overworked and on call 24/7. He is ALWAYS in need of sleep.

But we are all responsible for anything we put in our bodies, unless we are force fed, lol.

 

[Esox]

If you have a doctor who tells you that he considers the practice of medicine to not be both an art and a science, you NEED another doctor.

I can see my doctor about one thing per 10 minute appointment. If theres something else I want to talk about or go over with him I need to make another appointment and come back another time. He's just got up and left the exam room and left me sitting there wondering until the receptionist finally came in and told me I could leave.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/phar...ian-payment-disclosure-transparency-1.4169888

The practice of medicine is an art and a science but when making money is the bottom line all the rest goes out the window. Passion for the craft and compassion for the patient, no longer exists.

Its not easy finding another doctor either. Theres a severe doctor and nurse shortage in Canada and most GP's arent taking new patients. That leaves the multitude of existing and new walk in medical offices, and the ER of a hospital.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-doctor-shortage-medical-fees-1.4100251

Most go to the US where the money is better. My previous doctor moved to Saudi Arabia 30 years ago. The doctor I have now took over his practice when he did.

If you go into the ER, like a friend did with left side weakness, slurred speech and blurred vision, be prepared to wait. He had to wait 9 hours with those symptoms. That was reasonably quick by comparison.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/june-hallway-medicine-data-1.5271281

Two weeks later, he went back in and had an ultrasound done on his heart. He was 59 I think at that time. All his arteries were 100% clear, to the doctors amazement given his age, but he was still given 40mg of the most widely prescribed drug in the world. He doesnt ask why because you're not suppose to question authority.

 

[FarmerTan]

I can see my doctor about one thing per 10 minute appointment. If theres something else I want to talk about or go over with him I need to make another appointment and come back another time. He's just got up and left the exam room and left me sitting there wondering until the receptionist finally came in and told me I could leave.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/phar...ian-payment-disclosure-transparency-1.4169888

The practice of medicine is an art and a science but when making money is the bottom line all the rest goes out the window. Passion for the craft and compassion for the patient, no longer exists.

Its not easy finding another doctor either. Theres a severe doctor and nurse shortage in Canada and most GP's arent taking new patients. That leaves the multitude of existing and new walk in medical offices, and the ER of a hospital.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-doctor-shortage-medical-fees-1.4100251

Most go to the US where the money is better. My previous doctor moved to Saudi Arabia 30 years ago. The doctor I have now took over his practice when he did.

If you go into the ER, like a friend did with left side weakness, slurred speech and blurred vision, be prepared to wait. He had to wait 9 hours with those symptoms. That was reasonably quick by comparison.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/june-hallway-medicine-data-1.5271281

Two weeks later, he went back in and had an ultrasound done on his heart. He was 59 I think at that time. All his arteries were 100% clear, to the doctors amazement given his age, but he was still given 40mg of the most widely prescribed drug in the world. He doesnt ask why because you're not suppose to question authority.

Yeah, my GP here in the states would like to retire. The shortage of folks wanting to go into that specialty is saddening. They just don't make the money a cardiologist can. Also, lots of docs are not the most social people. More clinical in how they approach life, not personal. It's easy to think of the heart as a pump, like a pump in your basement. A GP has more of a tendency to think holistically about a person.

And people here in the US want socialized medicine. Our system is broken, but repairable. I sure wouldn't want to be a doctor if I made nurses wages. But that's where we're headed. Medicare doesn't pay much now. It won't get better later.