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What do people think of cast steel + Restoration

What are peoples general thoughts on cast steel razors?
Good/Bad, Advantages/Disadvantages.
How they hold their edge.
Rust compared to high carbon.
Etc.

I bought this pig in an auction recently and, being my first cast steel, didn't really know what to expect.

Overall poor condition blade with heavy rust on tang
I think someone went at this with a grinder at some point.
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Very deep pitting on the back of the blade.
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Close up of tang. No name on razor.
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Deconstruction, heavy sanding and assessment.
Scales have a chip missing on inner non-show side near pivot.
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More heavy sanding and up to 2000 grit, initial scales cleanup
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The scales are so thin I'm not going to go hard on them, just a good clean and disinfectant.
Outsides of scales sanded. Lead wedge only lightly sanded on the outer edge. Rough interior left to provide traction as I'm not using glue.
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Reconstruction but this time no collars used, just 1/16 brass pins. No internal washers just like I got it.
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I could probably give this a bit more sanding, looks fine IRL though.
Quite a wedgie profile, this'll be a quiet razor.
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There's no edge on this at the moment, that'll be another day.
 
Looks good, nice job!
I have a cast steel W&B and it is a fine shaver.
Don't confuse cast steel with cast iron. It has carbon in it, plenty enough to achieve a high hardness and make a razor that will hold a fine edge.
 
I didn't include a pic of the back.
The pitting was so deep I had to leave the remaining bit.
It's barely noticeable (about 1cm left of center) so I just poured boiling water over the blade and left it alone.

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Need to hone it at some stage as I'd love to hear others opinions on cast or if anyone prefers them.
During the auction I wasn't sure if the scales were ivory or not, I think they're bone though.
They're by far the thinnest scales in my collection, all the rest are horn, wood, plastic or possibly leather.


Looks good, nice job!
I have a cast steel W&B and it is a fine shaver.
Don't confuse cast steel with cast iron. It has carbon in it, plenty enough to achieve a high hardness and make a razor that will hold a fine edge.
I've seen plenty of cast steel razors but I don't think I've every heard of cast iron razors? (I'd like a W&B Mmm)
This one had serious rust when I got it so I was just wondering if it was more prone to rust than regular carbon steel.


Good job. That came out well.
Cheers mate
 
Last edited:

Legion

Staff member
Cast steel is a type of crucible steel developed by Benjamin Huntsmann in 1740 in Sheffield. Basically it was a way of creating molten steel to remove impurities and make it more uniform. So stamping the blade cast steel was kind of shorthand for pure, high quality steel.
 
I've seen plenty of cast steel razors but I don't think I've every heard of cast iron razors? (I'd like a W&B Mmm)
This one had serious rust when I got it so I was just wondering if it was more prone to rust than regular carbon steel.

I thought you were implying that cast steel was not like carbon steel. It IS carbon steel.
No more prone to rust than any other razor.
 
Cast steel is a type of crucible steel developed by Benjamin Huntsmann in 1740 in Sheffield. Basically it was a way of creating molten steel to remove impurities and make it more uniform. So stamping the blade cast steel was kind of shorthand for pure, high quality steel.
Interesting. Why wouldn't a makers mark be on this razor? Mass produced?
The lack of a maker makes it impossible to date unless someone else can chime in.
 
I thought you were implying that cast steel was not like carbon steel. It IS carbon steel.
No more prone to rust than any other razor.
Yeah, I just meant it's very different to the typical razors we all usually deal with.
When sanding it it was much more "powdery" if that makes any sense.
 

Legion

Staff member
Interesting. Why wouldn't a makers mark be on this razor? Mass produced?
The lack of a maker makes it impossible to date unless someone else can chime in.
Back in the day the bigger makers would rent space in their factory to kind of “freelance” smiths. The ones made by them would not be stamped with the brand, but often just “Warranted”, or nothing at all. I guess they would have been cheaper, no frills razors.

The age is first half of the 19th century. 1840ish, give or take ten years.
 
Cast, Acier Fondue, same thing. Huntsman's process was a big improvement over the old methods, but not readily adapted by everyone. I think French smiths took to it first, IIRC. Change was not always readily accepted back then (if ever) and being the new kid on the block the product still had to prove itself. Fun fact, Huntsman's process is sorta the grandfather of modern crucible steels like S30V and so on.. kinda cool when you think about it.

At any rate, branding the tang with the type of steel was typical, esp when the smith was using 'the new new' stuff and they wanted that to be what set their products apart from others. Very early Greaves blades can be seen with both his name and the steel type - either Cast Steel or Acier Fondue. I think I remember reading that at least one registered maker's mark was nothing more than 'warranted' over the name of some kind of steel. I forget who.. might have been the guy that used the Masonic compass... not important I guess. Point is the type of steel really was a big deal because it made such an improvement in the finished product; better longer lasting edges. Later on this practice became a farce though, makers would etch whatever they wanted to on blades.

At any rate - I've had a bunch of blades just like the one above, I found the spines to be, usually, very thin compared to blade width. The steel itself has been, usually, a bit softer than what I'd expect from a mid-to-late 1800s W&B. Hard enough to hone, sure; but maybe not hard to enough to take the keenest edge. Good enough for gov't work, as they say. I prefer razors made later on but the early blades are cool for their antiquity and history, for sure. I actually own a Huntsman blade, and while it's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, it shaves well enough and I really like knowing I'm using a blade from the mid 1700s.
 
Very interesting, thanks

Cast, Acier Fondue, same thing. Huntsman's process was a big improvement over the old methods, but not readily adapted by everyone. I think French smiths took to it first, IIRC.

I could be completely making this up but when you mention steel and France in the same sentence didn't Benjamin Franklin have something to do with early steel formulas when he was ambassador to France?

I think I remember reading that at least one registered maker's mark was nothing more than 'warranted' over the name of some kind of steel. I forget who..

I always wondered about the "warranted" and and just assumed it meant it was of an accredited standard.
When I see it I also thing "old" (Legion estimates 1840's) and mass produced (maybe blanks)

The steel itself has been, usually, a bit softer than what I'd expect from a mid-to-late 1800s W&B. Hard enough to hone, sure; but maybe not hard to enough to take the keenest edge.

I noticed this when sanding. I described it as more "powdery" than usual. I'll be interested to know what kind of edge I can get on it.

I prefer razors made later on but the early blades are cool for their antiquity and history, for sure. I actually own a Huntsman blade, and while it's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, it shaves well enough and I really like knowing I'm using a blade from the mid 1700s.

That's what it's all about for me, a bit of history.
I picked it up for cheap on ebay as I felt sorry for it but it has a good home now where it'll be treated with a bit of respect.

Is the Huntsman a snubtail by any chance? I think I say one of those a while ago but didn't bid and still regret it.
 
I do not believe my Bengall is of the softer nature.
It has a quality in the steel that is reminiscent of early Ern razors. It actually reminds me of an old proper butcher knife my father owned when I was a kid. Don't really know what it is in the steel but it has a certain sound and feel to it. A raw simple steel.
Sound of course is primarily due to the grind but combined with feel - it takes me back.
In light of this thread I shaved with the Bengall about an hour ago. I have no idea what edge was on it but it was a superlative shave. It takes a killer edge and seems receptive to different mediums.
Softer steel is very particular as is super hard steel, so medium hardness I believe it is and still... an excellent shaver.:)
For a roughly 170 year old razor with original horn (I believe) It stands in a class by itself.
 
I do not believe my Bengall is of the softer nature.
Don't really know what it is in the steel but it has a certain sound and feel to it. A raw simple steel.
Sound of course is primarily due to the grind but combined with feel - it takes me back.
In light of this thread I shaved with the Bengall about an hour ago. I have no idea what edge was on it but it was a superlative shave. It takes a killer edge and seems receptive to different mediums.
Softer steel is very particular as is super hard steel, so medium hardness I believe it is and still... an excellent shaver.:)
For a roughly 170 year old razor with original horn (I believe) It stands in a class by itself.
Restoring this razor, it definitely had a duller sound to it. It's a small (I presume 5/8ths, I dunno I haven't actually measured) yet hefty blade but I've restored enough to tell the difference. It's about a 1/4 hollow but other 1/4rs I have done had a higher pitch to them.

If it's convenient, throw up a picture of the Bengal. I'd like to see a similar (same steel) blade. Don't go to any trouble though.
It just reminds me I have a Bengal somewhere around here in the to-do pile. It's actually in pretty good nick but I'll have to make some scales for it which is putting me off. (I do EVERYTHNG by hand, including scale making)
 
don't know about Ben F, France, steel, etc. Could be possible.

The Huntsman is a 'no tail'.

Warranted was, I think, originally supposed to reference quality, or some sort of standard. But some makers registered a mark including the term, I suppose for those reasons but I don't know if it was just marketing or what. I have seen it used on cutlery to indicate the amount of silver; Warranted 12 dwt, etc. I seem to think W&B also used the word in one of their marks. I forget a lot of this stuff, i don't spend much time researching it anymore.
 
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