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What did you learn from your coffee brewing method today?

I thought I would start a thread where people could share the insights they learned from their coffee brewing method of the day in the same vein as the thread "What did you learn from your safety razor shave today?".

I learned that using the method of setting the grinds with a stir rod (see 15:50 of the video video below) and using the post final pour quick stir (see 16:46 of the video below) with the V60 and Hario Mugen, I do not have stalling issues on the draw down (and in theory the post pour stir helps prevent channeling).

 
I learned that I was confusing extraction and brew ratio. Of course I know what those two are, but I was apparently under extracting my coffee and trying to compensate with less water(more coffee per unit of water). This wasn't deliberate either and that's why it took me forever to finally figure it out.

TLDR: if you don't have a TDS meter, figure out how much water your grounds are retaining and adjust your grind until it's in the right range before making other changes. It's a good proxy for proper extraction.

I have a pretty well developed pallet for coffee defects, but applying the right solution can be illusive. Generally, grinding finer can fix taste problems, but sometimes you simply need to add more water as well. Then once you figure it out for one brew ratio, grind finer or coarser from there depending on whether you want a lower or a higher brew ratio(more water per unit of coffee). Less water requires a finer grind to hit the correct time, but overall time shouldn't be used to determine much other than consistency.
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
I learned from @Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker that a better scale can make a difference for repeatability. I got the same Timemore Basic Pro 0.01 gram resolution scale he uses the other day.... One coffee bean is around .1 of a gram, give or take. I was using a kitchen baking scale with a resolution of one gram.... quite a bit of difference.

Since I'm using a French Press, the water volume is always the same since I have a fill-line based on a painted orange or red (I'm color blind.. remember?) near the top of the glass as a reference point.

The other day, I had measured two grinds coming out of our Cuisinart DBM-8 ceramic burr mill grinder. One of the grinds measured 54 grams on the kitchen scale.. the other 47 grams... and this was 4 on their "scale"... the lowest setting and the most coarse grind they offer. I ended up getting a KINGrind K-1... the least expensive model they sell. I was able to get a more consistent coarse grind and I weigh the coffee before I fill it up... no longer relying on an electric motor cycling.

I only use 40 grams of beans now, but I have an accurate way to move that up or down to experiment. At the moment, the Bodum 34 ounce French Press, filled near to the top with those aforementioned 40 grams of coarse ground beans gets me a Yeti 30 ounce Rambler filled up near the top. I take a few sips until the volume is down to where the lid will fit on comfortably.

An added benefit? The French Press gets washed after every use. I no longer have to worry about how often to run a clean cycle on a automatic coffee brewing machine.

The only negative? I have 5 boxes of #4 bamboo coffee filters sitting in the garage since I have always bought them in bulk to keep the cost down. ;)
 
The only negative? I have 5 boxes of #4 bamboo coffee filters sitting in the garage
If you have somebody over that you know is picky about coffee, use the basket out of your old machine and one of those filters and run the finished coffee through it! :wink2:

Stealth edit: this comment assumed he was using the French Press and that the heavier body and potential particulate may be too much for some people(like myself).
 
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I learned that I was confusing extraction and brew ratio. Of course I know what those two are, but I was apparently under extracting my coffee and trying to compensate with less water(more coffee per unit of water). This wasn't deliberate either and that's why it took me forever to finally figure it out.

TLDR: if you don't have a TDS meter, figure out how much water your grounds are retaining and adjust your grind until it's in the right range before making other changes. It's a good proxy for proper extraction.

I have a pretty well developed pallet for coffee defects, but applying the right solution can be illusive. Generally, grinding finer can fix taste problems, but sometimes you simply need to add more water as well. Then once you figure it out for one brew ratio, grind finer or coarser from there depending on whether you want a lower or a higher brew ratio(more water per unit of coffee). Less water requires a finer grind to hit the correct time, but overall time shouldn't be used to determine much other than consistency.
This is very interesting in light of the conversation we had in the other thread around brew temp and French presses. I’ve been landing on the side and over extracting the darker roasts I’ve been sampling (using too much water, I believe). Lots of good advice in your post that I plan on following. I’ve gotten in the habit of also tweaking the temperature and it’s easy to get lost in the woods when fiddling with too many variables at once. I just received some very light roast Ethiopian beans from Happy Mug that will require water as hot as I can deliver in the V60, so this is all very timely for me.
 
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This is very interesting in light of the conversation we had in the other thread around brew temp and French presses. I’ve been landing on the side and over extracting the darker roasts I’ve been sampling (using too much water, I believe). Lots of good advice in your post that I plan on following. I’ve gotten in the habit of also tweaking the temperature and it’s easy to get lost in the woods when fiddling with too many variables at once. I just received some very light roast Ethiopian beans from Happy Mug that will require water as hot as I can deliver in the V60, so this is all very timely for me.
I am afraid that I was wrong again, there is no replacement for a refractometer. There is only the Wild West of taste and preference. I also found that this supposed rule that coffee retains a specific amount of water(within a range) completely unreliable.

I spent literally hours yesterday staring at this chart and others like it. There are others that might be more useful for those that use 1:X ratios(search: brewing control chart).


I knew that I was somewhere on the upper left side of the box, possibly outside it when I started. What I was trying to do was get to the upper right and I just finally did it, I can taste it for sure now, but I am not sure if I am at 22 or 23% extraction. I am pretty sure it's not higher as it doesn't tase excessively strong, I have an average sensitivity to bitterness(another rabbit hole). This is pushing the maximum extraction and I probably should back it off from here.

What I can do after I find an extraction level I like is either leave it, increase my ratio to make it taste more concentrated or decrease my ratio to make it taste less. What the left column is telling you is the TDS in the final beverage as a percent, that's what a meter reads. The fun part is you can tweak your finished beverage with hot water as I have advocated in the past if you start out strong(concentrated). But, then you are not on the ratio that you think any more!

I am brewing at 60g/L(1:17), but adding a T of milk at the end reduces the TDS down. Extraction(percent of coffee weight) is fixed once you have brewed, pretty sure you can't change that without pouring your coffee back through the grounds! So I use the 55g/L line, I calculated this. If I was to add a full OZ, I would be down to the 50g/L mark. So at this point, I know for sure that I need to use less water(lower ratio) to get back into the upper right of the box. To keep the same brew time, I will have to grind even finer since I don't want to reduce the strength. I am getting closer...
 
I am afraid that I was wrong again, there is no replacement for a refractometer. There is only the Wild West of taste and preference. I also found that this supposed rule that coffee retains a specific amount of water(within a range) completely unreliable.

I spent literally hours yesterday staring at this chart and others like it. There are others that might be more useful for those that use 1:X ratios(search: brewing control chart).


I knew that I was somewhere on the upper left side of the box, possibly outside it when I started. What I was trying to do was get to the upper right and I just finally did it, I can taste it for sure now, but I am not sure if I am at 22 or 23% extraction. I am pretty sure it's not higher as it doesn't tase excessively strong, I have an average sensitivity to bitterness(another rabbit hole). This is pushing the maximum extraction and I probably should back it off from here.

What I can do after I find an extraction level I like is either leave it, increase my ratio to make it taste more concentrated or decrease my ratio to make it taste less. What the left column is telling you is the TDS in the final beverage as a percent, that's what a meter reads. The fun part is you can tweak your finished beverage with hot water as I have advocated in the past if you start out strong(concentrated). But, then you are not on the ratio that you think any more!

I am brewing at 60g/L(1:17), but adding a T of milk at the end reduces the TDS down. Extraction(percent of coffee weight) is fixed once you have brewed, pretty sure you can't change that without pouring your coffee back through the grounds! So I use the 55g/L line, I calculated this. If I was to add a full OZ, I would be down to the 50g/L mark. So at this point, I know for sure that I need to use less water(lower ratio) to get back into the upper right of the box. To keep the same brew time, I will have to grind even finer since I don't want to reduce the strength. I am getting closer...
I respect your dedication to seeking perfection in this. Please keep me updated as you progress. I’m always looking for new techniques to improve and your efforts will surely yield some of those! I have a TDS meter somewhere so I’ll try to dig it up and see where I’m at with my various beans and brew methods.
 
Here's what I found out today with some fun and simple experimenting.

I brewed up 4 cups of Chock Full O Nuts in my Bunn brewer. Typical "mild" recipe that the can offers- 1 tbs per 6oz cup. I'm a little heavy handed so it came out to 31g. I used that as my base coffee with a paper filter. Two minutes later I had a nice and mild cup. Typical "diner" coffee flavor- no berries or anything interesting- maybe a hint of chocolate. Nice aroma. Clear. No complaints.

Then pulled out the French Press immediately after brewing this and went with the same ratios. I didn't fool with any Hoffman techniques- I was just more interested in making it the way I would at 4am when I get the day started. Bloomed the coffee for about 20 seconds, stir, filled the carafe with the other 3 cups of water, put the plunger on and hit the timer for 4 minutes. Much bolder darker flavors- a touch of smoke and some dirt/earth. Probably what Hoffman and Kenneth Davids (the original Hoffman and a much more entertaining author) would call defects of cheap coffee. Much hotter cup. A little too much sediment and an overall huge difference in taste. I won't say it's better this way for me but definitely different. The Press will get some more use than it did before, though- time permitting.

Hopefully, I'm not bouncing off the walls this evening because I have a long day ahead of me tomorrow.

Anyway, just wanted to chime in with what I found out today while killing time on a day off. :)
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
As I posted in the other thread.. today, I learned.. don't push the plunger all the way in... stop when the grounds just touch the bottom of the glass. That changed things quite a bit for me. I am making much weaker coffee than is recommended. I use 40 grams to 950 grams of water...an inch down from the 34 ounce Bodum French Press.
 
That seems awfully short of a brew, I bet if you could get it above three minutes you could start reducing the amount of coffee to taste. :wink2:
Let me tell ya, these Bunn brewers were the Keurig of their day. I guess they're still the fastest brewing drip machine out there now. When it was brand new, it would brew a whole pot in 4-5 minutes. It can be finicky and I had to email them when I got it (probably 10 years ago) to get new "shower heads" because it agitated the coffee so much it would shoot all out of the filter and into the cup. The newer shower heads (sent for free) slow down the brew time a bit but make less mess. I'm amazed it still works as well as it does given its age. I would definitely buy another if the need arises.
 
I just learned that overly fruity natural process coffees can be made drinkable(for me) with a lower extraction(and higher ratio). Technically, I am moving away from sweetness and toward sourness, but maybe that makes more sense than I would have thought ahead of time. This was accidental, like everything good, when I had ground too course and the only solution was to keep adding water.
 

Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker

Likes a fat handle in his hand
What yall doing on this side of the cafe hood? You know what time it is? Its coffee time! Thats right, don't you know every time is coffee time. If it aint got no coffee in it, it just aint worth drinking it. 🤪 Thats what I am talking about, you feel me? :lol: ( I know, I am such a goofball, I should put that title on my resume )

OK, so this is my first time making a post here, about what I have learned making coffee, and slowly upgrading my journey towards coffee bean enlightenment. 😁 Now take a close look at all 3 grinds...

Stirling Kenya Level 6 Grind Stirling Kenya Level 7 Grind Stirling Kenya Level 8 Grind
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Stirling CO Kenya Level 8 Grind Coffee.JPG

Now, I gotta say, the older I get, the worse I am able to see. You know why I love camera's that have MACRO functionality? They allow me to see the grinds up close, so I can tell the difference!​

OK, so here's what I have learned. For those who don't know, I have been brewing coffee lately, for just nearly a year now, using a Hamilton Beach 49987 single serve brewer, better known as, The Scoop. When I got my 1ZPresso K-MAX grinder, I began grinding Stirling Kenya at level 6, for a medium fine grind. This yielded surprisingly, excellent results for me. I was able to achieve a full bodied extraction, rich in flavor, and in strength, all while maintaining an excellent water in to out ratio! 😍

The brewer is an auto drip, and when you select the 14oz brew setting, and enable the BOLD button, it takes rough 3 minutes and 4 seconds. Thats considered a fast brewing cycle, when compared to all drip brewers on the market. And then my scoop filter decided to self destruct itself, cause it didn't like that I was having too much fun.

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Now I know why people like the gold filters! 😢

I started noticing that my coffee filter was beginning to get overrun by the extra workload of either 22 grams of Kenya, or 26 grams of Ethiopian Yirgacheffe. So I decided that I would switch things up, and raise my grind to level 7, to make the grounds courser, and thereby closer to what is considered acceptable for drip. Please note, this was the only change that I made, everything else stayed the same!

The result, is that my coffee was now weaker tasting, however, still contained most of the Kenya flavor, so while a bit of a flavor loss, still acceptable. I am doing some early coffee science testing, so today I decided that I would raise the grind further, and nail a medium grind right smack dab in the middle, using a level 8 grind. Now were talking right? WRONG! 🤮

While level 8 is indeed a good proper medium grind setting for drip brewers, unfortunately, with the sheer limit of grounds I can fit in this tiny scoop filter, it no longer had enough grounds, to compensate for the courser grind setting. When I tasted the coffee, it tasted watered down, pretty much lost all body, flavor, and strength. This I considered a supreme failure, but overall, a good teacher.

The verdict? If you have the same coffee brewer that I have, and you plan to drink specialty coffee, and you plan to do your own grind, please use setting 6 on your K-MAX grinder. I even did these tests with Ethiopian Yirgacheffe as well, and suffice to say, it went even worse with that. So to wrap this all up, what have I inevitably learned from experience, that somebody warned me about previously?

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These single serve brewers, while convenient and all, their tiny filter baskets, will doom you to fail, one way or the other. They are novelty brewers at best, and they are not designed to be your main use only brewer. Because eventually, that filter is gonna tear on you, and you will be up coffee's creak without a coffee scoop to paddle by.

And because your limited by the size of the filter scoop, you are limited by how much grounds that you can use, and that will greatly impact your ability to achieve proper extraction. Yes, I have indeed had some successes with this brewer, I aint gonna lie. But you got to remember folks, arn't auto drip brewers supposed to be all about convenience, to making things easy?

But how easy is it, if I have to tip toe on the edge of the abyss, to reach a balance of achieving a full bodied extraction, to causing a niagra falls all over the desk surface from overflow, and then getting a tear in the filter, thereby insuring that my grounds get all over the place making a mess anyways? It is clear that this brewer was designed to be a supplemental use to the main coffee pot brewer anyways. And its also obvious, that this brewer was designed for people who like to drink weak supermarket coffee.

___________________________________________________________________________________

So guess what SWCT is gonna do? I am going to cut my loses with this brewer, and next month, I am going to be upgrading to a full sized, much higher quality, and technically famous, auto drip brewer. Yes, I still want the convenience of an auto drip, but I don't wish to my have coffee dreams stiffed, and make me work hard for it, as if I was trying to dial in an espresso. So until then, pre-infuse your thoughts, let the suspense bloom, so they may be extracted full bodied, when I show you pictures next month. 😍
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
What yall doing on this side of the cafe hood? You know what time it is? Its coffee time! Thats right, don't you know every time is coffee time. If it aint got no coffee in it, it just aint worth drinking it. 🤪 Thats what I am talking about, you feel me? :lol: ( I know, I am such a goofball, I should put that title on my resume )

OK, so this is my first time making a post here, about what I have learned making coffee, and slowly upgrading my journey towards coffee bean enlightenment. 😁 Now take a close look at all 3 grinds...

Stirling Kenya Level 6 Grind Stirling Kenya Level 7 Grind Stirling Kenya Level 8 Grind
proxy.php
proxy.php
View attachment 1622788
Now, I gotta say, the older I get, the worse I am able to see. You know why I love camera's that have MACRO functionality? They allow me to see the grinds up close, so I can tell the difference!​

OK, so here's what I have learned. For those who don't know, I have been brewing coffee lately, for just nearly a year now, using a Hamilton Beach 49987 single serve brewer, better known as, The Scoop. When I got my 1ZPresso K-MAX grinder, I began grinding Stirling Kenya at level 6, for a medium fine grind. This yielded surprisingly, excellent results for me. I was able to achieve a full bodied extraction, rich in flavor, and in strength, all while maintaining an excellent water in to out ratio! 😍

The brewer is an auto drip, and when you select the 14oz brew setting, and enable the BOLD button, it takes rough 3 minutes and 4 seconds. Thats considered a fast brewing cycle, when compared to all drip brewers on the market. And then my scoop filter decided to self destruct itself, cause it didn't like that I was having too much fun.

proxy.php

Now I know why people like the gold filters! 😢

I started noticing that my coffee filter was beginning to get overrun by the extra workload of either 22 grams of Kenya, or 26 grams of Ethiopian Yirgacheffe. So I decided that I would switch things up, and raise my grind to level 7, to make the grounds courser, and thereby closer to what is considered acceptable for drip. Please note, this was the only change that I made, everything else stayed the same!

The result, is that my coffee was now weaker tasting, however, still contained most of the Kenya flavor, so while a bit of a flavor loss, still acceptable. I am doing some early coffee science testing, so today I decided that I would raise the grind further, and nail a medium grind right smack dab in the middle, using a level 8 grind. Now were talking right? WRONG! 🤮

While level 8 is indeed a good proper medium grind setting for drip brewers, unfortunately, with the sheer limit of grounds I can fit in this tiny scoop filter, it no longer had enough grounds, to compensate for the courser grind setting. When I tasted the coffee, it tasted watered down, pretty much lost all body, flavor, and strength. This I considered a supreme failure, but overall, a good teacher.

The verdict? If you have the same coffee brewer that I have, and you plan to drink specialty coffee, and you plan to do your own grind, please use setting 6 on your K-MAX grinder. I even did these tests with Ethiopian Yirgacheffe as well, and suffice to say, it went even worse with that. So to wrap this all up, what have I inevitably learned from experience, that somebody warned me about previously?

proxy.php

These single serve brewers, while convenient and all, their tiny filter baskets, will doom you to fail, one way or the other. They are novelty brewers at best, and they are not designed to be your main use only brewer. Because eventually, that filter is gonna tear on you, and you will be up coffee's creak without a coffee scoop to paddle by.

And because your limited by the size of the filter scoop, you are limited by how much grounds that you can use, and that will greatly impact your ability to achieve proper extraction. Yes, I have indeed had some successes with this brewer, I aint gonna lie. But you got to remember folks, arn't auto drip brewers supposed to be all about convenience, to making things easy?

But how easy is it, if I have to tip toe on the edge of the abyss, to reach a balance of achieving a full bodied extraction, to causing a niagra falls all over the desk surface from overflow, and then getting a tear in the filter, thereby insuring that my grounds get all over the place making a mess anyways? It is clear that this brewer was designed to be a supplemental use to the main coffee pot brewer anyways. And its also obvious, that this brewer was designed for people who like to drink weak supermarket coffee.

___________________________________________________________________________________

So guess what SWCT is gonna do? I am going to cut my loses with this brewer, and next month, I am going to be upgrading to a full sized, much higher quality, and technically famous, auto drip brewer. Yes, I still want the convenience of an auto drip, but I don't wish to my have coffee dreams stiffed, and make me work hard for it, as if I was trying to dial in an espresso. So until then, pre-infuse your thoughts, let the suspense bloom, so they may be extracted full bodied, when I show you pictures next month. 😍
Chris,

If you want an easier way to brew just one cup.... get a 34 ounce French Press (Bodum "Brazil" glass French Press) for around $20. You won't have to fill it all the way up.... use the amount you want, but you'll have the flexibility to make a larger cup as well. Easy to clean.... no build-up of anything because you are washing and drying it between uses. You already have the other stuff... that great Timemore scale you recommended and I bought, a great manual grinder, etc....

@Eric_75 inspired me to try the French Press we had sitting around for around a decade: a gift from our oldest son. I didn't have the guts to try it.... but it turns out, it's a piece of cake to use. ;)
 

Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker

Likes a fat handle in his hand
Chris,

If you want an easier way to brew just one cup.... get a 34 ounce French Press (Bodum "Brazil" glass French Press) for around $20. You won't have to fill it all the way up.... use the amount you want, but you'll have the flexibility to make a larger cup as well. Easy to clean.... no build-up of anything because you are washing and drying it between uses. You already have the other stuff... that great Timemore scale you recommended and I bought, a great manual grinder, etc....

@Eric_75 inspired me to try the French Press we had sitting around for around a decade: a gift from our oldest son. I didn't have the guts to try it.... but it turns out, it's a piece of cake to use. ;)

Not the worst idea I ever heard indeed, lots of success stories from folks like you, and other's, who are really enjoying their French Presses's. And I will admit, those large glass ones, look absolutely gorgeous, no doubt there. Having said that however, things changed in my life since just under a year ago, and I am now making coffee for another person. This means, my path to a full size drip brewer makes sense.

BTW, I think its really cool that you have a Yeti Rambler Kim. I have their 30OZ Yetti Tumbler, which can fit 22 ounces in comfortably, allowing room for sweetener and creamer. Another thing that I have had to do with my current brewer, because its so small, is I have to first run a 14oz brew, then empty the filter, then add more grounds, and then do an 8oz brew, in order to fill my Yeti tumbler.

Its gonna be so nice to just poor all that I need at once, going to make my life so much easier. BTW, speaking of French Presses's, I am happy to hear that you found yourself a solution, by not pushing the plunger all the way down to MAX. But I do find it interesting, how you are running a lower water temperature, as typically you need 195 degrees F minimum, for proper coffee extraction. And of course, you adjust the water temperature higher or lower 195F to 210F, based on the type of roast your brewing, and your altitude level.
 
... But I do find it interesting, how you are running a lower water temperature, as typically you need 195 degrees F minimum, for proper coffee extraction. And of course, you adjust the water temperature higher or lower 195F to 210F, based on the type of roast your brewing, and your altitude level.
I do this same thing on darker roasts. It works well with immersion brews like the French press, aeropress and Clever (presumably the Hario Switch as well, but I’ve never used one). It’s a YMMV thing, but basically it’s a good technique for beans roasted dark enough that you don’t actually want to extract every last bit of flavor compounds out. Once you extract past the initial roast there are the pleasant nutty, caramelized sugar and dark chocolate notes that are so desirable in dark roasts. The goal is to get those without pulling out the burnt wood and astringent charcoal flavors just beyond. It can make for an amazingly smooth cup. Just be sure to use enough coffee so that it isn’t weak.

With lighter roasts I will go all the way up to boiling if needed. Under extracted light roasts are not my thing at all. At a certain point with some of those you lose so much heat when the water contacts the coffee bed and brewer it can be hard to extract enough.
 
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