What am I Trying to Prove?

[joeschmeau]

I've been shaving with a double-edged safety razor for about two months now. I've got an EJ DE89L, I've tried about seven different blades, and four different creams and soaps. While I've found one or two blades that are better than the rest and one cream that I like above all the others, even my best combination leaves a lot to be desired.

I decided to try this kind of shaving because a lot of times I find that doing things the "old fashioned" way is a lot better than the modern way. I liked the low cost, less waste, and the fact that I was going to slow down and enjoy shaving rather than treat it as an obligation.

In the past 10-15 years, I've mostly shaved with a Braun electric. Here's my experience after two months.

DE Shaving

• Takes me 20-25 minutes and at least four passes to get a decent shave.
• Gets a little closer than my electric in some areas, mainly on the cheeks.
• Slightly fewer ingrown hairs.
• Irritates my face enough that I can only shave every other day. Every day is just not possible.
• No local suppliers

Electric Shaving

• Takes 5 minutes.
• Leaves no irritation so I can shave every day.
• Costs slightly more
• Slightly more ingrown hairs

So this morning after looking in the mirror and seeing all the razor burn, I started wondering: Why am I doing this? What am I trying to prove? I know I can eliminate the discomfort by using fewer passes or only going with the grain, but then my shave still takes 15 minutes and isn't as close as my electric. I'll probably experiment with this for another month, but right now I'm leaning toward going back to an electric.

 

[bmc1979]

Every persons experience is different and it's not for everyone. Hopefully your next month goes better then it has so far.

 

[AceByTerror]

Don't know what to tell you. I've had the opposite experience. Like you I have shaved with electrics and carts and had always been frustrated by the frequent burn and crappy shaves of both methods. I looked at other people who shaved without issue with jealousy. Shaving was a complete and annoying burden to me.

Until I started down this path.

I now enjoy effortless and thoroughly enjoyable shaves using DE (currently the same Edwin Jagger as you). I wish I could shave more often - it's that much of a change for me. I now LOVE shaving.

I wish I had the answer for you. My experience through this board and personally introducing this world to others is that the **vast** majority of people eventually get "there". By "there" I mean shaving Nirvana, or at least well on their way.

Commonly, the phrase "no pressure" seems to be key to some people. The concept is foreign to new wet shavers, so it might take a while to get it.

Try cold water shaving - worked miracles for me and others. Maybe try different soaps, creams and variations of blades.

The bottom line is there is no one true set of rules that works for everyone. Is there a chance that wet shaving is not for you? Absolutely. But I'd bet against it. The odds are in your favor.

Do you want to go back to electric and be moderately happy with your shaves, or explore the possibility of something **much** better? That's all up to you sir.

Good luck - I wish you the kind of success that I found with it. This wet-shaving world is literally is changing much about my life in a good way.

 

[moto_mike]

If you're not getting the results you are looking for when you start something new, it's easy to get discouraged. I'd say stick with it. To me it sounds like you haven't quite gotten the technique down. I started back in Jan (?) maybe and luckily was able to get a pretty good shave right off the bat. A few nicks and some razor burn, but once I figured it out, things started getting better. So, maybe you just haven't found the right touch quite yet.

As far as the experience, I switched over mostly cause of cost of cartridges, but also an allure of the old school. There is technique involved with DE/SE shaving, it's not mindless like the carts and electric (never used one). So I personally enjoyed the learning process and getting better at being able to do something with my hands. Even if it's only shaving (blasphemy 'round these parts). At the end of the day though, even it if takes a half hour, consider it time for yourself. Enjoy it. Turn on some tunes, and focus on your blade angle and no pressure on the razor. Once you hit it, you'll feel a sense of bliss and accomplishment. Give it another go. If you finally decide this ain't your thing...so be it, live and learn.

 

[stmaryja]

I was where you are now at one point, frustrated and thinking of giving up and also shaving only every other day. I find that two passes, north to south and south to sorth (both are more or less with/across the grain on the neck for me except under the chin where I replace south to north with center to outside) plus touch up is enough to get me nice and smooth. As far as irritation goes it's not necessarily the razor, although you really do need to watch your blade angle (lower is better for me) and make sure that you're not pushing the razor into your face. If you're face lathering try bowl lathering, if you're using alum try not using it, and try using warm water rather than hot for prep and rinsing the razor, and lukewarm to cold water to rinse your face. The last 3 things helped me out big time with irritation. Make sure it's not the soap/cream either, some can cause irritation. Also try sticking with your best razor/blade, brush, and soap/cream for a while until you are happy with the shaves you are getting.

I think we get so excited about this that we introduce way too many variables all at once and then can't figure out what's causing a problem.

 

[vocalistbob]

I understand exactly what you're saying, especially the length of time it takes to shave. I was convinced at one point that a shave would never take less than 20 minutes from start to finish (from whipping up the lather to cleaning up) but that changed little by little to the point that a shave takes (depending on the razor) 2.5 or 3.5 passes and 10 - 12 minutes start to finish. It used to take me about 4 minutes to shave with a Fusion or 7 minutes with an electric, so in my mind, the extra 5 minutes it takes me now is well worth it. And by the way, if I'm in a bit of a hurry, I can cut the time down to 7 - 8 minutes.

 

[kingfisher]

Wow. Sorry to hear that.

I have finally found great shaves on a DAILY basis using two passes plus touch-up with a DE. Can't imagine going back.

However, it took me about a year and a half before I really got comfortable and began to really internalize exactly what I needed to do to get those comfortable shaves. I'm apparently a slow learning; maybe you are, too. Try mixing it up a little and see what happens.

 

[insomniac]

If you get a better shave with an electric - use an electric.

 

[chiefmate]

You have not found the right combination for your face. But if you do not enjoy the process......stop

 

[Chester]

I think we get so excited about this that we introduce way too many variables all at once and then can't figure out what's causing a problem.

This is soooo true, and one of the foundation errors that new shavers make. "Change one thing at a time." is the best route to learning.

I have found that wet shaving (most of the time with a DE) gives me way less irritation than I had with multi-blade carts. Though I do not shave every day (it's every other day, basically), it's not because of irritation, rather it's because I like having more to mow down.

It sounds like the OP is struggling with having too many options, and not being able to pinpoint where the problem is. My gut tells me that it's in the lather.

My suggestion to the OP is to get a canned foam like barbasol (I like the aloe version) and use it for a few weeks and see if it gives better results. The idea here is not to take up the "canned goo" thing per se, but to give yourself a consistent lather to use. Barbasol is one of the best canned creams, but Proraso also makes a good canned cream. During that timeframe, practicing with one kind of brush-built cream (not soap -- let's keep it easy), and learning how to make good quality slick lather repeatedly without thinking about it is the mission. Try making a bowl of brush built lather every night (wash 'em all down the drain!) and get a feel for when it goes from too dry to just right, and from just right to too wet. Focus on that middle range of consistency that is thick and slick. Then, when you have it dialed in on auto-pilot, switch away from the canned cream.

Do that, and just try and get decent, clean 2-pass shaves that keep you looking sharp. Forget BBS. Sure, you might miss a spot here and there, but that's okay.

You want to look great, have no cuts, and have good skin. You can do it. The rest will take care of itself, and in six months you'll have it down pat.
Lot's of people report problems in the 4-8 week timeframe. You're not alone. Ask questions in the newb forum if you get stuck.

Hope it helps,
-- Chet

 

[joeschmeau]

I appreciate the encouragement. This next month I'm going to use a new Astra SP and my Omega cream with every single shave. I'll take out all the variables and work on improving my lather and getting the right blade angle. I have a feeling that I'm actually rushing, which leads to missing massive patches of beard, which leads to more passes, which actually takes longer and causes more irritation. Thanks again for the encouragement.

 

[inspiringK]

Yip, if you get better results from the electric, happily move away from the DE.

It does take a while to learn how to use a DE, so you may being bowing out prematurely, especially if you introduce the amount of variables you have. Many of us shave every day and get a close shave in three passes or less. I use a single blade because an electric cannot shave my face and because cartridges cause irritation. I now enjoy the shaving experience whereas I dreaded it before. If you have found the opposite - no need to fight it, enjoy the electric.

Edit: Your post appeared while I was typing. Reducing the variables sounds like a good idea - good luck!

 

[PugslyCat]

We can offer some advice here, but in the long run if it isn't working for you the electric razor is always an option. Nobody else is holding a sharp object to your throat forcing you to do this.

It sounds like the OP is struggling with having too many options, and not being able to pinpoint where the problem is. My gut tells me that it's in the lather.

I think Chet nailed it. The OP had an earlier thread about problems lathering.

My suggestion to the OP is to get a canned foam like barbasol (I like the aloe version) and use it for a few weeks and see if it gives better results. The idea here is not to take up the "canned goo" thing per se, but to give yourself a consistent lather to use.

DOH!!! My advice to cartridge/disposable razor users is to transition by learning the lathering while still using the old razors and proceed to the DE razor after they have the lathering pretty well figured out, if not mastered. Otherwise use the same canned lathering product they had been using for a while and just have the DE razor to figure out. An earlier post by Joe had me wondering what advice to give somebody transitioning from an electric who had no go to canned goo or razor.

Do that, and just try and get decent, clean 2-pass shaves that keep you looking sharp. Forget BBS. Sure, you might miss a spot here and there, but that's okay.

Learning to let go of BBS is a big deal. Sometimes trying too hard can be a cause of exerting too much pressure on the razor.

 

[Go West Young Man]

I'll agree that two months barely gets you out of the Newbie category, you're still on the early part of your learning curve.
IF you decide to tough it out, in a few more months you'll be amazed at how much better your face looks and feels.

 

[Azarius]

I would agree with what everyone else has said. If you get get a better shave from an electric, then switch back to it, as it is all about the end results of looking clean and presentable.

I have never used an electric except for a beard trimmer so for me it was a switch from disposable razors back to the traditional razors I had started with when I began shaving 35 years ago.

Good luck in whatever you do.

 

[SteveWY]

If you choose to continue with DE shaving, please do report back in another 2, 4, 6 months and let us know if:

1. Your shave time has decreased (20+ minutes seems long, most report 1-15 total)
2. Your shave quality has improved or stayed the same.
3. You are experiencing less ingrown hairs and other skin issues.

I thought about starting a thread.... "When did it all click for you?" In my experience my technique, comfort and enjoyment really hit the mark at about 4-5 months in. During that time, I learned much from B&B, fought the ADs, and eventually eliminated variables and settled into a good prep, lather, and shave routine that works for me. Of course, YMMV.

 

[bluesbishop]

You should be able to get your shave time down, my average shave takes about 6-7 minutes....with a R41, slightly more with other razors because I may have to add a pass.


If you are getting irritation, go back to the basics. Good prep, good lather, and NO PRESSURE

A few of the brothers here suggested trying barbasol canned goo.....and I say...heck...why not! It's all I ever seen my father use....and he always had a BBS shave using a Flare tip or his Slim.....I prefer the lanolin version....but not bad at all for canned goo.

 

[Chester]

DOH!!! My advice to cartridge/disposable razor users is to transition by learning the lathering while still using the old razors and proceed to the DE razor after they have the lathering pretty well figured out, if not mastered. Otherwise use the same canned lathering product they had been using for a while and just have the DE razor to figure out. An earlier post by Joe had me wondering what advice to give somebody transitioning from an electric who had no go to canned goo or razor.

We're really saying the same thing -- change one thing at a time. It doesn't especially matter which thing changes first. From the perspective of someone on the outside looking in, adopting wet shaves has got to look like a holistic shift -- brush, bowl, lather, razor, AS/ASB -- everything must change!

When I first began, I, too, tried to attack the problems with a shotgun, changing everything at once. A few weeks later, I re-set, changed only my razor (keeping the blade the same) and got comfy there as I learned how to make consistent brush-built lather. It really helped pull myself out of the ditch, and my overall results were much better when I put the can away in the cupboard.

In the case of the OP, having a consistent lather seemed to point towards using the canned foam not just as a way to help focus on one thing at a time, but to allow him to not have to focus on cream as a variable until he was ready, with plenty of practice. As much as we may disparage canned creams (some of that is probably a bit of puffery, too), they do deliver a familiar, consistent product that's easy to meter. Even if nothing changes in technique, consistency in "the slick" may soften or remove his irritation challenges without changing anything else. Maybe canned cream will work best for him over the long run. Only he will be able to tell, but getting some breathing room for brush-built practice will allow a better informed choice, by experience.

Hope it helps,
-- Chet

 

[nuclear_shaver]

I'm quite new to DE razors, but have used a cartridge and electric razor in the past. I can say that after only 3 shaves with a DE, I get a much closer shave than with an electric (I basically have a constant 5 o'clock shadow with an electric) and a much less irritation. It *does* take more time, but it can be kind of fun. I will definitely stick with it.

That said... everybodys face and skin is different and responds differently to razors et cetera. So you should do whatever a) is the most fun, b) feels the best on your face c) whatever works best for your scheduled/budget.

The Nuclear Shaver

 

[Vickers]

Man, that's a drag.

There have been two times I had awful shaves since returned to DE (after a 30 year break): once I was drunk shaving with an R41, and the other I had a Feather in a Slim that I neglected to tighten down.

Oops!

Take a break for a week or two and use the electric. In the meantime, rewatch all of mantic59 and Geofatboy's YouTube videos, practice making lather, film yourself shaving with a blade-less razor to check your angles, whatever. Somewhere your technique needs work, but I truly feel the effort will have big dividends for you.

Think of it as a detective story!