Welsh "Thuringian"

[Jayber Crow]

I've had one of these for a while and never had any success with it. I happened to watch a video by @drmatt357 on maintaining an edge on your razor. Matt used an ILR in the video, but mentions a few other hones including a purple Welsh slate, so I thought why not give it a try with the so-called Welsh "Thuringian". After getting an edge on a N8k it only took about a dozen laps under running water for the blade to start sticking on the slate; I did about 20 more with light pressure and stropped. The shave was excellent.

This stone for me was one that had languished for years; sometimes being used as a holder for other stones. If you have one of these and have had trouble making it work give this a try.
I hope this helps someone.

 

[gary haywood]

I have a welsh slate and it’s nice stone to have for the price it’s as good as it gets .

How would you say the welsh slate feels Com pared to the shaving of the 8 k?

 

[Seveneighth]

The Llyn Melynllyn / purple slate is a mid range stone, though it still puts a nice edge down. Dr Matt talks about a Dragon's tongue which is a lower grit still generally. (although the Inigo Jones Dragon's Tongue stones can perform to quite a high grit equivalence if you lap them well) There is a finer Yellow Lake both available new or vintage and of course the fabulous Llyn Idwal.

I never understood @drmatt357 's video, because he is quite disparaging of the Welsh stone and it' s hardly a fair fight given that the Dragon's Tongue is so coarse in comparison to the others he talks about.

Personally I refresh on either the YL or the LI and only drop to the purple if there is a problem or as part of a progression.

For maintaining a blade the stones work really well with oil, because:

1) you get a lot more feedback
2) the two finishing stones can be pushed to a very high edge sharpness.

Last year I was swapping them in and out of a Naniwa progression. The Welsh stones are great because they are so easy to use and with water / slurry each can cover a broad range of grits.

The full progression I am using of Welsh stones at the moment:

Gwespyr (natural bevel setter) 1-2k
Dragon's Tongue
Llyn Melynllyn
Yellow Lake
And or Llyn Idwal

The Gwespyr sets a beautiful bevel. It's hazy scratch pattern and easy to polish out.

My vintage Yellow Lake sets an insane edge when used with gun oil.

 

[drmatt357]

Don’t know that I was quite disparaging about the stone. I believe I said it gives a good edge, just not great. I may have referred to it incorrectly tho. The one I have is a Llyn Melynllyn stone and I thought that was synonymous with Dragon’s Tongue.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Seveneighth]

Don’t know that I was quite disparaging about the stone. I believe I said it gives a good edge, just not great. I may have referred to it incorrectly tho. The one I have is a Llyn Melynllyn stone and I thought that was synonymous with Dragon’s Tongue.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Maybe I'm just getting patriotic and over sensitive - didn't mean to misrepresent you.

If you get the chance would really urge you to try out some of the other Welsh stones - I think you would like them because they behave well under running water. They are also great with a little soap in the water as well.

Llyn Idwals quite glassy - not unlike a hard coticule, but easier to use.

Actually - it is a fair point - I don't think the stones were as standard as we would like to think. AJ sells three types. I have two Dragons Tongue from him and they are not completely uniform. Inigo Jones - the only mine I am aware of still producing Dragons Tongue Hones produces one that is slightly different again.

 

[RayClem]

I like hones that become "sticky" as the edge approaches its final state. Not every hone will do that, but several do. That kind of feedback is useful. Sometimes I start out with a little slurry on the stone. When the edge starts to get sticky, I add a little water. I continue this process until I am honing on plain water and the edge gets sticky. Then for the final touch, I hone under running water until it is sticky as well. As long as the bevel was properly set in the first place, the edge will be quite nice, keen yet smooth. I have Welsh Llyn Melynllyn, ILR and Tsushima Ocean Blue stones and all three work well that way.

For my tough beard and sensitive skin, an 8K synthetic stone will not produce an edge keen enough and smooth enough for me to call it shave ready. A 12K Naniwa produces an edge that is keen enough, but too harsh for my face. A Coticule produces a smooth edge, but I have never been able to get the edge sharp enough with the stone I have unless I follow up with another finisher.

I can easily shave off the Yellow Lake, ILR, and TOB stones or even a finer Chinese Guangxi hone. However, I currently get my best edges from a Greek Vermio slate and a Zulu Grey using shaving lather as a lubricant. A hard black Arkansas can produce a fine edge, but I do not have the patience needed to use one.

 

[Seveneighth]

However, I currently get my best edges from a Greek Vermio slate and a Zulu Grey using shaving lather as a lubricant. A hard black Arkansas can produce a fine edge, but I do not have the patience needed to use one.

Where did you source the Greek Vermio? - it is a stone I'm interested in.

 

[Lord Fatboy]

The old Yellow Lakes are lots of different types of stones as far as I can see.

 

[Jayber Crow]

I have a welsh slate and it’s nice stone to have for the price it’s as good as it gets .

How would you say the welsh slate feels Com pared to the shaving of the 8 k?

I haven't shaved off an 8K Norton edge, although maybe I should lol. I don't usually use a synthetic hone in a progression; I usually use a soft Ark for bevel, hard, then trans black. The shave was as good as I get from an Ark, maybe not as "skin smart" I did get a weeper on my upper lip, but that could have been me too.
I'm still enjoying the feel of my shave 12 hours post shave this AM.

As I recall the Welsh "Thuri" is the finest one AJ was/is selling though I don't think he calls them that anymore. I don't have any experience with a DT, Purple slate, or yellow lake. I've got an old Lyn Idwal that is nice with oil after an Ark progression and used in place of the trans black. It seems a little slower, but I'm not timing anything.

I think the key to @drmatt357 's technique is jointing and bringing back the edge on a 3µ hone, i.e. the Norton 8k. I tried using an 8k Ohishi hone, but it was taking too long to get an edge, or at least to long for me. Not sure what the micron size is on the Ohishi, but if it's JIS it's probably about 1.6µ

 

[Seveneighth]

The old Yellow Lakes are lots of different types of stones as far as I can see.

You are probably right. I have come across two distinct types. A more common yellow box and a salmon colour. The salmon is a lot finer. I have one and a relative has another. Both are very fine.

 

[Seveneighth]

I haven't shaved off an 8K Norton edge, although maybe I should lol. I don't usually use a synthetic hone in a progression; I usually use a soft Ark for bevel, hard, then trans black. The shave was as good as I get from an Ark, maybe not as "skin smart" I did get a weeper on my upper lip, but that could have been me too.
I'm still enjoying the feel of my shave 12 hours post shave this AM.

As I recall the Welsh "Thuri" is the finest one AJ was/is selling though I don't think he calls them that anymore. I don't have any experience with a DT, Purple slate, or yellow lake. I've got an old Lyn Idwal that is nice with oil after an Ark progression and used in place of the trans black. It seems a little slower, but I'm not timing anything.

I think the key to @drmatt357 's technique is jointing and bringing back the edge on a 3µ hone, i.e. the Norton 8k. I tried using an 8k Ohishi hone, but it was taking too long to get an edge, or at least to long for me. Not sure what the micron size is on the Ohishi, but if it's JIS it's probably about 1.6µ

AJ sells a set of three which he calls : Dragons Tongue, Llyn Melynllyn, and Yellow Lake, and which I think he gives a grit rating of 8k, 12k, and 15k, respectively. Comparing each with Naniwas I think they are more like 4-6, 8-10, 10-12 although I have got finer finish with oil. One of the Llyn Melynllyn stones pushes higher than the other. I think I get more like 12k from it.

My vintage Yellow lake goes higher still.

Inigo Jones have an interesting stone:

Slate Honing Stones for sale by Inigo Jones Slate printed wall plaques for sale by Inigo Jones

It comes unlapped. It took a while to get it honing well - I lapped it on progressive wet N Dry. It creates a really nice progression prior to a finisher.

 

[RayClem]

Where did you source the Greek Vermio? - it is a stone I'm interested in.

Matt at Griffith Shaving Goods sells Vermio hones. All of my interactions with Matt (razors, strops, stones, etc. ) have been first rate. He does a great job of describing this items on his web site.

The only Vermio is currently lists on his web site is a 5 3/4" x 2 3/4". The one I have is slightly longer and cost a little more. However, there is sufficient real estate on the hone in stock to get the job done. I find that I can get a really keen, really smooth edge off the stone. I will get the edge nearly shave ready on other stones and then use the Vermio coated with either a few drops of liquid soap or shaving lather using light pressure to put the finishing touches on the edge. The Vermio is quite hard and pretty slow, so I do not try to do anything other than the final polish on that stone. However, with patience, I am sure it would do more if necessary.

The Vermio is also a good stone to use for refreshing a edge that is starting to tug. However, if the edge has deteriorated too far, you might need to use a another hone to prepare the edge for the Vermio.

 

[Seveneighth]

Matt at Griffith Shaving Goods sells Vermio hones. All of my interactions with Matt (razors, strops, stones, etc. ) have been first rate. He does a great job of describing this items on his web site.

The only Vermio is currently lists on his web site is a 5 3/4" x 2 3/4". The one I have is slightly longer and cost a little more. However, there is sufficient real estate on the hone in stock to get the job done. I find that I can get a really keen, really smooth edge off the stone. I will get the edge nearly shave ready on other stones and then use the Vermio coated with either a few drops of liquid soap or shaving lather using light pressure to put the finishing touches on the edge. The Vermio is quite hard and pretty slow, so I do not try to do anything other than the final polish on that stone. However, with patience, I am sure it would do more if necessary.

The Vermio is also a good stone to use for refreshing a edge that is starting to tug. However, if the edge has deteriorated too far, you might need to use a another hone to prepare the edge for the Vermio.

Thanks!!

 

[Lord Fatboy]

You'r

Thanks!!

You'r'e in the UK tho', so maybe cheaper I think to use 'thuringian dot de' to get a Vermio, as the VAT would be included & postage cheaper. Check it out and see what you think.

 

[Alum of Potash]

I like AJ's purple stone off a coticule, both used with water. These along with a Suehiro 1k/3k combo for early work have been a very consistent progression for me over the past three years or so. Sometimes, for a little more finesse off the Welsh purple, I'll use his "15k" "Welsh Thuringian" afterwards. Doesn't seem to hurt, and it can pick up things a little. I have a set that measures 130mm x 35mm, including an AJ dragon's tongue. But as others have mentioned, if I'm going to use a dragon's tongue, I use an Inigo Jones instead. Definitely the poor man's coticule, without being as versatile.

P.S. a small AJ Welsh purple, lapped to 600x and used with Singer sewing machine oil is the cat's meow...

 

[Seveneighth]

I like AJ's purple stone off a coticule, both used with water. These along with a Suehiro 1k/3k combo for early work have been a very consistent progression for me over the past three years or so. Sometimes, for a little more finesse off the Welsh purple, I'll use his "15k" "Welsh Thuringian" afterwards. Doesn't seem to hurt, and it can pick up things a little. I have a set that measures 130mm x 35mm, including an AJ dragon's tongue. But as others have mentioned, if I'm going to use a dragon's tongue, I use an Inigo Jones instead. Definitely the poor man's coticule, without being as versatile.

P.S. a small AJ Welsh purple, lapped to 600x and used with Singer sewing machine oil is the cat's meow...

Great post.

 

[mr_houston]

FYI, I noticed that today is a good time to search for the Yellow Lake Oilstones in the red box. I already have one and it is a very nice, fine stone.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Don't have one of the moderns. But the vintage Yellow lakes have a handful of razors that really like them. Not enough I bother to get it out much though. Probably should give it a little more attention than it gets, to be fair.

 

[RayClem]

I have one of the Llyn Melynllyn (Yellow Lake) Welch slates. It is one of the stones I have that produces very nice edges. The others are Greek Vermio, South African Zulu Grey, and from parts unknown Imperia la Roccia. I do not use the Welch slate very often as it is a very narrow hone. I prefer wider hones for most razors, but the narrow hone is great for smiling blades.