Water Hardness: Details, Recipes, and Experimental Results on Lather Quality

[Mick]

Great work

If you get your water from a municipal source (city water), by law they must publish an annual water quality report.

Ask your water and sewer authority for a copy. If they don't supply you with one, Google for it, as it more than likely is published online.

Knowing what comes out of the tap is half the battle

This is mine. I have GREAT water.

.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Great work

If you get your water from a municipal source (city water), by law they must publish an annual water quality report.

Ask your water and sewer authority for a copy. If they don't supply you with one, Google for it, as it more than likely is published online.

Knowing what comes out of the tap is half the battle

This is mine. I have GREAT water.

.

Thanks, Mick. You're right about how we should look up public records to find out our water hardness. The last time that I looked, which might have been last year, I found out that my tap water hardness ranged from 75 mg/L to 111 mg/L over five months with an average hardness of about 95 mg/L. That's how I know that my water hardness is "moderately hard", at least here in the United States. It's not bad at all. Distilled water does seem to make a little better lather than moderately hard water like mine. For those with hard and very hard water, I'm sure that they'd feel better with distilled water in their lathers.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Grant, this might be the most BOSC science project ever. Congratulations, my friend.

This glass contains soft water made hard and hard water made soft.

Spoiler: How can that be?

Soft water was frozen. Some was melted.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[MaineYooper]

View attachment 848729

Grant, this might be the most BOSC science project ever. Congratulations, my friend.

View attachment 848732

This glass contains soft water made hard and hard water made soft.

Spoiler: How can that be?

Soft water was frozen. Some was melted.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Oh, very well played!!

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Oh, very well played!!

Agreed!

View attachment 848729

Grant, this might be the most BOSC science project ever. Congratulations, my friend.

View attachment 848732

This glass contains soft water made hard and hard water made soft.

Spoiler: How can that be?

Soft water was frozen. Some was melted.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Thanks, Jim, for the most clever BOSC compliment I've seen yet.

 

[Darkknight79]

How much citric acid should one add to sink full of water?

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

How much citric acid should one add to sink full of water?

I don't know. I've read that a "pinch" is good. Maybe someone else with experience using citric acid could chime in?

 

[MaineYooper]

How much citric acid should one add to sink full of water?

I use less than 1/4 teaspoon and that works for my well water. Experiment!

Sent via my Samsung

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I use less than 1/4 teaspoon and that works for my well water. Experiment!

Great advice, Eric! Thanks!

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Out of curiosity did you measure the temp and ph of your water?

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Also, something to note is that MWF contains Magnesium Sulfate (epsom salt) for whatever reason. The trace amounts in the soap itself could be the reason folks have a hard time with it. Furthermore, it could be affecting your analysis, for example in your 0mg/L trial the "net lather" could be something higher. The EDTA is meant to counteract the ions, but it is still curious.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Out of curiosity did you measure the temp and ph of your water?

The temperature was room temperature, which was around 73 °F (23 °C) during testing. I measured the pH of the distilled water and 1000 mg/L water as both being around 5.5 or 6, which surprised me at first because I expected values around 7, but then I learned that water absorbs carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and forms carbonic acid, dropping the pH. For distilled water, the pH "may be as low as 4, although pH 5.0 to 6.5 is more usual" (URL).

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Also, something to note is that MWF contains Magnesium Sulfate (epsom salt) for whatever reason. The trace amounts in the soap itself could be the reason folks have a hard time with it. Furthermore, it could be affecting your analysis, for example in your 0mg/L trial the "net lather" could be something higher. The EDTA is meant to counteract the ions, but it is still curious.

Good point! Since more magnesium sulfate makes harder water and makes worse lather, it makes sense that magnesium sulfate in MWF could be causing a problem, at least for those that have a problem of airy lather with MWF. The presence of magnesium sulfate in MWF doesn't affect my analysis with MWF or L&L Grooming, since the hardness of water used in building lather was not represented as a total hardness of any kind, but ingredients make a difference, of course, in lather quality. EDTA is in MWF, too, as you pointed out. There are other ingredients that affect water hardness, either by increasing it or apparently decreasing it through chelation. I've taken the last several ingredients of MWF and added some notes:

Sodium Chloride = salt
Sodium Gluconate = chelator
Sodium Silicate = coagulant/deflocculant
Tetrasodium EDTA = chelator
Magnesium Sulphate = increases water hardness
Tetrasodium Etidronate = chelator

It's possible that the chelators in MWF might successfully counteract the magnesium sulfate in MWF, and that whatever airiness that I or anyone else encounter with MWF could be due to other ingredients used to make the soap, such as coconut oil, but your point is well taken. Thanks!

 

[Runnin_Ute]

I reviewed my most recent Water Quality Report, and couldn't figure out what number would be the "hardness" indicator. Any ideas?

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Good point! Since more magnesium sulfate makes harder water and makes worse lather, it makes sense that magnesium sulfate in MWF could be causing a problem, at least for those that have a problem of airy lather with MWF. The presence of magnesium sulfate in MWF doesn't affect my analysis with MWF or L&L Grooming, since the hardness of water used in building lather was not represented as a total hardness of any kind, but ingredients make a difference, of course, in lather quality. EDTA is in MWF, too, as you pointed out. There are other ingredients that affect water hardness, either by increasing it or apparently decreasing it through chelation. I've taken the last several ingredients of MWF and added some notes:

Sodium Chloride = salt
Sodium Gluconate = chelator
Sodium Silicate = coagulant/deflocculant
Tetrasodium EDTA = chelator
Magnesium Sulphate = increases water hardness
Tetrasodium Etidronate = chelator

It's possible that the chelators in MWF might successfully counteract the magnesium sulfate in MWF, and that whatever airiness that I or anyone else encounter with MWF could be due to other ingredients used to make the soap, such as coconut oil, but your point is well taken. Thanks!

Thanks so much for this detailed response!

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I reviewed my most recent Water Quality Report, and couldn't figure out what number would be the "hardness" indicator. Any ideas?

If it is there, the hardness might be in ppm instead of mg/L. (They are virtually identical.) Here is a good source for interpreting a water analysis report:

How to Interpret a Water Analysis Report

If hardness is not there, I'd expect that total dissolved solids (TDS) would be there. Also, if you can find the ppm or mg/L for calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg), you could add them up and that would be your hardness.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Thanks so much for this detailed response!

You're welcome.

 

[Runnin_Ute]

If it is there, the hardness might be in ppm instead of mg/L. (They are virtually identical.) Here is a good source for interpreting a water analysis report:

How to Interpret a Water Analysis Report

If hardness is not there, I'd expect that total dissolved solids (TDS) would be there. Also, if you can find the ppm or mg/L for calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg), you could add them up and that would be your hardness.

I saw total dissolved solids.
Ground water wells: 244-508 mg/l (2014)
From treatment plant: 96-300 (2016)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I saw total dissolved solids.
Ground water wells: 244-508 mg/l (2014)
From treatment plant: 96-300 (2016)

There is no strict relationship between total dissolved solids and hardness. TDS can be much higher than hardness, especially if the water is high in sodium, but TDS could be slightly more than the hardness value. I've read that hardness is usually around 1/2 of the TDS for untreated water, but I've also read that one should take TDS and divide by 10 to get an estimate of hardness. I don't know what the average factor is between TDS and hardness. As far as your water goes, does your water quality report detail specific molecules in the water?

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I'm curious if there is a difference in the interaction of these minerals in soaps produced with Sodium Hydroxide vs. Potassium Hydroxide. Other than the softness of the bar itself is one better than the other for "hard" water?