I wanted to clarify, I have no issue with job hopping, just with GQ. GQ is not a place for career advice. As an employee, you have every right to quit a job and find a new one whenever you want, just like an employer can fire you whenever they want. Sure there might be people who don't like this and it will raise "red flags" or whatever when thy are reviewing your resume, but others will be intrigued, see that you are a well rounded person, and if nothing else, may want to meet with you and find out why you are moving around so much. You just gotta' do what you think it right for you and your career. I can tell you right now, if I was in a job I did not like, and I knew I could get another one, I would! Plain and simple. There is no way in hell I would stay in a job I was not happy in because someone down the line might not like the way it looks on my resume if I quit too early or whatever......
Was I being unprofessional. Job interview and follow through.
- Thread starter bmathe02
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It may actually be a generational thing.
Unfortunately, until there's no more old buggers like us making hiring decisions, it's a fact he'll have to deal with.
GQ offers advice. Odd are, it's not good advice; occasionally, they will stumble onto good advice, but it's more akin the the broken clock that tells the correct time twice a day.
Please don't think that way ... you are doing yourself a disservice. Please don't post that way, you are misleading others.
That sounds a bit harsh. Sorry. But this is one time when that old libertarian "it's your right to do whatever you want to do and the rest of the world just has to get used to it" bit is going to do yourself a harm. Employers put a lot of time, effort and money into hiring and training new workers. They don't want to do all that just to have the new worker wander off to a new job a year or two down the line, making the employer start the process all over again.
If you are handing out the résumé of a serial job hopper, you are going to have a lot of your résumés binned ... a lot of them indeed!! ... before anyone is actually "intrigued" enough by your inability to stick with something over the long term that they would an hour out of their very (very!) busy day to meet with you and find out why "such a well-rounded person is moving around so much".
Look, everyone expects a bit of job mobility in a work history, especially in one's younger years. Nobody will begrudge a young professional the opportunity of quitting a post-university job at Starbucks to take a job related to his chosen career path, regardless of how brief his time slinging joe. But let's face it ... most jobs suck. We'd all rather be home or on the golf course ... or wherever. Nobody hangs a "gone workin'" sign up at his favourite fishing hole. A job applicant whose résumé shows someone who has a history of hopping from one unpleasant job to another ... whether it's six months flipping burgers at McDonald's followed by six months at Burger King and a whopping eight months at Wendy's ... or whether it's six months as a junior architect at Smith & Co. followed by eight months as junior architect at Jones & Jones followed by ... yo get the idea ... well, it doesn't set a good precedent.
Ian, I think it also depends on the industry you work in. In several industries, it is completely normal (and even expected) to move to another job after two to three years at one company.
What industry is this normal in that doesn't involve a chromed pole in the center of the stage?
It's your career, do whatever you think is best, but I'm simply saying that The Boomers are still in Managerial Positions right now, and a recent survey found only 39 percent that didn't bin resumes from perceived "job hoppers".
I can tell you that it takes a full year for people I hire to come up to speed in this highly technical field. There's no way on God's Green Earth I'm wasting a year or more of training on a Gen Y upwardly mobile focused guy to have him fly away after a year of work where he's starting to get really useful. There are plenty of young Mechanical and Electrical Engineers that I can afford to toss any resumes that don't fit.
There are a LOT more applicants than there are positions.
While many new age HR advisors are indeed saying change jobs every 2 to 3 years, just because an HR advocate is promoting it doesn't mean Managers are accepting it.
A Head Hunter is interested in getting a fee from someone for placing an applicant in a job position.
Here's a couple of links to articles that talk about the hazards of job hopping, and how there seems to be a disconnect between actual managers and HR advocates on the subject.
Don't just read the articles, read the comments at the end of each made by real life managers.
http://www.askamanager.org/2012/10/job-hopping-is-killing-your-career.html
http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/...b-hoppers-never-they-make-terrible-employees/
http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/17/opinion/job-hopping-schawbel/index.html?_s=PM:OPINION
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Matt, I'm not familiar with any of these industries. Which ones did you have in mind?
What industry is this normal in that doesn't involve a chromed pole in the center of the stage?
Some examples would be public accounting, investment banking, or other careers within the financial services industry. Many Big Four auditors will leave after two years to pursue an industry job. Many investment bankers will leave after two years to pursue a career in other areas of finance or an industry job.
Overall, you are obviously correct. I was just trying to point out that some industries are different
Lol.....I am just going to laugh this one off....it does not sound harsh, just ridiculous. You are the one who needs to re-evaluate his thinking and you are the one doing a disservice to others. You are trying to guilt people into believing that they somehow have an obligation to the company they work for and cannot leave at will because "money" was invested in training them. The employee is investing their time and life in the company as well. Does this mean a company won't ever fire or lay-off the employee? Of course not! It is a two way street. Being "libertarian" and all this other nonsense has nothing to do with it........
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It may actually be a generational thing.
Unfortunately, until there's no more old buggers like us making hiring decisions, it's a fact he'll have to deal with.
I am not as old as you Phil but close. I just celebrated my 29th year with my company. I too hire people and question job hopping almost more than an employment gap.
To the OP good luck with your new career.
Yep, like I said, real managers who do the hiring know the truth. The me first rampant attitude is what I'm trying to avoid, and so far it has worked out splendidly.
The folks I hire believe that they have an obligation to the company they work for. Just as we have an obligation to them.
I can see it being more acceptable in the banking and financial industry, but I can tell you it is not that way in the technical fields.
And of course, if you're talking about flipping burgers or such, it's certainly not a big deal.
Interesting conversation.
I've worked for the same company now for 13 years. I wouldn't dream of working anywhere else.
I treat them well and they treat me well.
It's all how you look at it. Glass half empty or half full kind of thing.
I guess my glass is half full.
I've worked for the same company now for 13 years. I wouldn't dream of working anywhere else.
I treat them well and they treat me well.
It's all how you look at it. Glass half empty or half full kind of thing.
I guess my glass is half full.
You misunderstand.
It's not a "guilt trip" ... it's a fact of life. Good jobs don't grow on trees nowadays. There are lots of capable applicants for any decent job. The interviewer, sifting through his pile of applications, will be looking to find the best candidate for the position, and part of that "best" includes "not likely to bail on us in a few years".
That's why workers should do their due diligence and investigate the employer before applying. Avoid bad employers.
Some examples would be public accounting, investment banking, or other careers within the financial services industry. Many Big Four auditors will leave after two years to pursue an industry job. Many investment bankers will leave after two years to pursue a career in other areas of finance or an industry job.
Overall, you are obviously correct. I was just trying to point out that some industries are different
Thanks, Matt, good to know which industries you were thinking about.
This is essentially your first real industry job. Focus on getting the most out of it.
My advice to you is to spend some time with your new boss on defining and setting your career goals for the next 6 months and 12 months. You should have a solid set of milestones and actionable goals. Have the habit of a bi-weekly 101 meeting with your boss to track you progress, get constructive feedback and see how your goals, commitments and expectations are met. Don't mention you intend to leave in 2 years. Who knows, you might decide to stay longer. When you feel it is time to move on, it would come naturally and if you have a healthy relationship with your management, there is no reason why they wouldn't support your decision. Also, unless you have an offer letter in hand, you don't let you current employer know on your intent to leave. That is one card that you keep close to your heart.
Good luck!
I did not read the whole thread yet, but some comments..
This sounds fine. You and him should have been on firm ground about expectations then, since you turned down his offer.
Good luck!
Is that $750/20 hours or $750/300 hours?? A big difference in pay. Either way its great that you are doing the internship.
This sounds fine. You and him should have been on firm ground about expectations then, since you turned down his offer.
This was the most worrisome comment. Unless the paycheck is very high, money is not a good motivator in the long term. An interesting job is what is needed. Maybe you just anticipate it will be boring?? It is hard to imagine that a new graduate would find a job in the real world boring without having the perspective of what it really entails. I know you did not tell your old employer or perspective employer this, but if I were hiring you this would be a serious concern. Both for me and you, as we both need to be happy about the work.
Two weeks is standard notice, even more might be expected in the professional ranks (i.e. when you are a architect with 10 years experience). You were not being unprofessional for going on these interviews without telling him, but from your comment I can't tell if your boss is just feeling angry and betrayed, or if he really thinks it would be in your best interest long term to stay at your current position. (But of course you need better full time work and not internship working for low pay 2 days a week).
For a new grad, it is expected that not every job will be a good fit, or that some employers cannot provide right environment, so one will not be punished for moving jobs for good reason. But if there are too many short stints on your resume then fairly or not it will look like you are a person who cannot be satisfied, or a person who cannot fit into different work environments. But don't take that comment too seriously as there are all kinds of acceptable reasons to change job which are explainable. I just caution that having 4-5 different jobs in your first 5-6 years will raise suspicion unless you are doing fixed cycle jobs like internships or contract work.
Good luck!
Where I work, complaining about my company has become a cottage industry. But over the years, my company has paid off over a million mortgages (two of them mine), purchased perhaps ten million cars, and paid for untold college educations. You bet your *** I have an obligation to them.
Nah. Bigger.
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