Was I being unprofessional. Job interview and follow through.

[bmathe02]

To start off I recently turned 26. I have a bachelors of architecture (5 years) and a masters of architecture in urban design and regional planning (1.5 years). I went straight through those 7 years with out working so I can primarily focus on university and well I just did not want to work. After university I took a year off to relax.

After the year off I have been self teaching myself new programs and that will enhance my skill set. I have done internships completely unpaid and some with a small stipend in order to build my resume up. The whole point is to land a salaried position so I can move out of my parents home. (I had moved back after bachelors because pops was unwilling to support me bumming around, which is understandable as they paid for everything else).

Currently I am doing a stipend internship 2 days a week at 10 hrs a day for 15 weeks. Pay is $750. The principal paid us intern 200 half way through with the balance at the end. Half way through the principal asked if I'd like to work more hrs. I politely said no reason being 10 hr days are long with transportation it is 13 hrs. Besides doing all the office management tasks would fall on the interns. I need the time to go and further my skill set, apply for jobs etc. of course I did not say this and just politely said no.

The other interns are all students and most by now dropped out of the internship because juggling school and work is hard. The principal offered me a position at the firm after the internship is over. Speaking with other employes all of which were interns at one point I knew exactly his hand. 10$ an hr 2-3 days for a year. I thanked him but did not take him up on the offer to think about it because I have 8 weeks left of the internship.

well I had an interview at a boring residential firm. And got the position of junior architect. I did not have the required experience for the job posting but I applied anyway. I worked my salary numbers to undercut other potential applicants but still great pay considering my limited experience. I immediately tell the principal in person( all the interns that dropped just emailed an associate and never showed up again) that I am going to have to leave the internship shortly after Easter.

He calls me unprofessional for even going on interviews with out telling him. He then berates me saying I'm young and stupid and made the wrong mistake. He goes on about all the large scale various projects he does vs the residential I would be doing and how I just wasted my career. The whole time i kept my head high with a smile on my face. in my mind i was thinking all this man has is a 20 year jump start on me. hell i have a more impressive educational background then he does. He then says i wont match your salary out of principal. i then told him i never expected you to as i already took the offer. He then asks if I could give him 2 weeks. I said no I can give you the week and a half. I don't see what the big deal is I only work 2 days a week plus the internship ends in 5 weeks.

Now I don't see anything wrong in my actions. Myabe its a generational thing. i was trained never to settle whenits about your career. to always move on to bigger and better and never feel complacent. i remebr reading a GQ article that said modern men can not and should not stay and work in the same place for more than 3-4 years. Is it not expected that internships are just a means for one to get employment. It's one thing I guess if your a salaried employee but I can't be expected to be held hostage when you don't pay me squat. I surely won't put this on my résumé but it was not a waste of time as I met some pretty girls my age and made friends.

Sorry for the long post. Please post your feelings as you see fit, I have thick skin. I will follow up with some shorter questions later.

 

[YetiDave]

One thing I would not do is assume that you know better than someone who's been in a field for 20 years longer than you have just because you have a more impressive educational background. To say that 'all' he has is 20 years on you is a bit naive, you can be taught a lot of things but nothing trumps experience

 

[inspiringK]

One thing I would not do is assume that you know better than someone who's been in a field for 20 years longer than you have just because you have a more impressive educational background. To say that 'all' he has is 20 years on you is a bit naive, you can be taught a lot of things but nothing trumps experience

^^Yip.

I think you are right with your intent, but there may have been more effective strategies.

Perhaps scheduling a meeting with your current employer would have been good. Then, you could have explained that you are considering this other job offer, but that you wanted to talk to him about your prospects at the current place first. Your new employer would also have appreciated the loyalty if you let them know that you could not take their position until you had served out the full two weeks promised to your old employer - keep in mind that they see what you do to the old employer and recognize that you may eventually do the same to them.

All said and done though, you were cheap labour for someone who never offered anything better to you. I doubt this will negatively affect you in the long run. Besides, earning money and paying rent is waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than earning scraps and living with your parents.

 

[Hunter]

This reminds me a lot of when I was working at a Denny's waiting for my class to start a few years ago. I worked there so I could just be out of the house and drive my buddy to work (he was a cook there and lost is DL). When I first started I told the manager that I would be there until my course started or summer came around and I went back to my summer job at a mine. For those of you that don't know what it is like in a denny's kitchen... there are a few people that are awesome and have great work ethic, the rest I'm pretty sure huff glue. I was a simple dishwasher so my manager decided that he wanted me to be a cook. Eventually the summer came and I gave him my notice, to which he exploded about how I was throwing away an opportunity he handed me on a golden platter.

Sometimes we run into people in life that don't take good news well. You were at the bottom of the barrel at that firm, and it looks like you were going to make a lateral move. Though I always tell me new employers I need two weeks at the current job to settle current issues and start any training new people. Last place I worked they let me finish out the week so I could find a place to live. Good Luck in the new job btw!

 

[Prince]

i remebr reading a GQ article that said modern men can not and should not stay and work in the same place for more than 3-4 years.

Be careful with this. Down the road, no one wants a job hopper. If they see a pattern, you'll be questioned about it.

 

[JayEddie]

Actually if he came right out and literally told you that you were stupid he's the one being unprofessional. If he thinks that anybody with half a brain is going to inform him that they're interviewing somewhere else, then he's the one that's naive. It sounds more like he's not happy about losing his cheap help.

 

[COHunter]

You made a decision that you feel is in your best interest so follow through on it. You can't help how your principal reacted to the news, and it's not your problem frankly to worry about. I'll go against the grain of some of the other guys on the "experience" factor. I have dealt with many types over the course of my working life, and experience doesn't make you good at anything. Some people learn and get better from years of experience, some frankly still suck at what they do, they have just done it for a long time. I was a costruction superintendent for a while and there were times when a job was simply done substandard and I would get the "I've done this for 20 years" response, and to that I would ask them "Have you sucked this bad at it the whole time?" then I would just have them redo it until it was done properly.

I'm not telling you to burn any bridges but it sounds like you have a drive to better yourself based on the education you've pursued at the university level and with self motivated study so if you can apply that to a career path go for it, and don't let some mid-range guy try to intimidate you. I still struggle with the concept of 2 weeks notice too, how often do companies give you 2 weeks notice before they "eliminate/re-structure/streamline etc..." your job? If it was a good company and you're moving on and want them to recommend you then by all means give them that, if the guy is a tool and you don't care what his input is after the fact then just move on.

 

[smalltank]

I have had many job interviews recenetly...I had a very happy and positive attitute...did I get a call back nope..for whatever reason in the world..*sighs*...some hiring managers take advantage of their "status level"..does it help anyone other than themselves..nope...in the long run at least...

 

[Austin]

I have had experience with interns. Exceptional individuals are usually offered a job. Nevertheless, I have never expected an intern to stay very long. I appreciate the grunt work they do for the company. I think you handled it well. You should go to every job expecting to stay with them forever even though you know you won't. You should look out for number one but give each job your full attention and commitment. Good luck.

 

[BeeSeeDub]

"...a year off to relax."

I got stuck on that.

 

[bmathe02]

Thank you all for the responses. I read them all. A few more things. During The new firm's interview the principal mentioned in the past he had an intern start stipend and then moved to pay and stayed a total of 2.5 years and then she moved onto a bigger firm in the city doing larger scale projects at a more senior level position. This is something I intend on doing as well. And I believe I conveyed the message and it is a mutual understanding. However in 2 years or so how do I bring this up. I want to be as proffesional as possible. Do I say I am interviewing because that as we all know can be a 1 week thing or it can be a 1 year thing. I don't want to be phased out because I let an employer know too much in advance. End game is I want to get all I can learn from residential design and use that as a stepping stone to get into commercial and eventually city design but with more responsibility then a part time employe who will never be able to take lead on a project had I stayed at my former job.

 

[SIG9]

I applaud your enthusiasm and drive but you might be getting a little ahead of yourself. No one knows what the future holds. Your new boss may take you under his wing and you may find yourself on the fast track at your new company. Ten years from now you may be running the place. On the other hand, you may find out that they're up to shady dealings and decide to leave six months from now. No need to telegraph what you don't know. Take it one day at a time, do your best, learn what you can and most importantly network. Networking is key in this economy. The rest will take care of itself. Good luck!

 

[Hunter]

Well always keep an open eye for advancement in that company or another but also if you are happy where you are just let the management and co-workers know you are happy. In two years depending on how things are going you can ask about doing other projects or seeing if any other companies have stuff going on that you like. Nothing wrong with looking ahead but never show your cards before you have to.

 

[Dave in the basement]

I'd take anything you read in GQ with a grain of salt. Or a mountain of salt, depending on the subect matter.

 

[chab]

At our company, which isn't architecture, we use the internship program as a learning process for the intern to see if this is the type of work they may want in the long term, and for us to get to 'try out' the person and see if they would be a good fit. The expectation is that if you are doing well and like it, you'll likely get an offer at the end. If this is how your internship is structured, the I can see how the principal got upset because s/he is investing time and energy into something and now has to start over and its out of his/her control.
That doesn't make it right, but it can be frustrating. So I think s/he handled it wrongly, surely, but that may be what's behind his/her poor reaction. I don't think you were being
unprofessional at all and some could argue by telling your principal now that they have more time to adjust to the end of your time there. As others have pointed out, there may be
parts of your thinking or approach that could be re-thought, but with the original question of being unprofessional I think you are doing fine. The principal is just human, and
not well versed in how s/he should treat others and is thinking only of the impact on their own situation. Pursue your plan. Sounds like you have it all thought out and good luck.

 

[John Von Wuggz]

If you know people then you don't have to intern. If you don't know people then you have to watch out for yourself. Overall the whole thing wasn't handled too bad.

 

[Doc4]

To start off I recently turned 26. I have a bachelors of architecture (5 years) and a masters of architecture in urban design and regional planning (1.5 years). I went straight through those 7 years with out working so I can primarily focus on university and well I just did not want to work. After university I took a year off to relax.

Good time to relax ... lord knows you won't get many chances for the next few decades.

After the year off I have been self teaching myself new programs and that will enhance my skill set. I have done internships completely unpaid and some with a small stipend in order to build my resume up. The whole point is to land a salaried position so I can move out of my parents home. (I had moved back after bachelors because pops was unwilling to support me bumming around, which is understandable as they paid for everything else).

Currently I am doing a stipend internship 2 days a week at 10 hrs a day for 15 weeks. Pay is $750. The principal paid us intern 200 half way through with the balance at the end. Half way through the principal asked if I'd like to work more hrs. I politely said no reason being 10 hr days are long with transportation it is 13 hrs. Besides doing all the office management tasks would fall on the interns. I need the time to go and further my skill set, apply for jobs etc. of course I did not say this and just politely said no.

I'd have taken him up on the extra hours ... "always willing to do more" on a letter of reference can look good.

The other interns are all students and most by now dropped out of the internship because juggling school and work is hard. The principal offered me a position at the firm after the internship is over. Speaking with other employes all of which were interns at one point I knew exactly his hand. 10$ an hr 2-3 days for a year. I thanked him but did not take him up on the offer to think about it because I have 8 weeks left of the internship.

Second-hand info isn't the best to rely on ... he may have intended to offer you a better position. Maybe he valued you more than others, maybe he is tired of losing young recruits. There's nothing wrong with asking "what's the pay for that position?" when offered a job. (If you get into asking about all the perks like how many holidays and how long is the lunch break, you start looking less professional, though.)

well I had an interview at a boring residential firm. And got the position of junior architect. I did not have the required experience for the job posting but I applied anyway. I worked my salary numbers to undercut other potential applicants but still great pay considering my limited experience. I immediately tell the principal in person( all the interns that dropped just emailed an associate and never showed up again) that I am going to have to leave the internship shortly after Easter.

I hope that you do not soon regret taking a job somewhere boring. I trust, as well, that you were up front about your experience level. (And of course, there is always the risk that if you cannot perform at the expected level due to inexperience, regardless of how "cheap" you are being paid, they may want to let you go.)

He calls me unprofessional for even going on interviews with out telling him. He then berates me saying I'm young and stupid and made the wrong mistake. He goes on about all the large scale various projects he does vs the residential I would be doing and how I just wasted my career. The whole time i kept my head high with a smile on my face. in my mind i was thinking all this man has is a 20 year jump start on me. hell i have a more impressive educational background then he does. He then says i wont match your salary out of principal. i then told him i never expected you to as i already took the offer. He then asks if I could give him 2 weeks. I said no I can give you the week and a half. I don't see what the big deal is I only work 2 days a week plus the internship ends in 5 weeks.

It would be unprofessional for you to duck out of work at the internship for interviews, but if it was on your own time, then he should not have an issue with it. He shouldn't have berated you for your decision to work for a different firm in a different area of the industry; I suspect that he was motivated at least in part in a desire to "set you straight" so you don't make a long-term mistake, but still, that should come in the form of "concerned but friendly advice from a mentor".

I am troubled that you would bail on the last 3½ weeks of your internship. I know you want to appear eager to your new employer and all that, but I'd have negotiated a start date with them to allow you to finish your internship ... or if there was some pressing need for your services at the new place ASAP, at least give your old employer as much notice as possible. Most interviewing employers "get it" that what goes around comes around ... do unto others as you would have others do unto you ... and if they won't let you give your old employer a decent notice period then ... are these the kind of people you want to work for ??

Now I don't see anything wrong in my actions. Myabe its a generational thing. i was trained never to settle whenits about your career. to always move on to bigger and better and never feel complacent. i remebr reading a GQ article that said modern men can not and should not stay and work in the same place for more than 3-4 years. Is it not expected that internships are just a means for one to get employment. It's one thing I guess if your a salaried employee but I can't be expected to be held hostage when you don't pay me squat. I surely won't put this on my résumé but it was not a waste of time as I met some pretty girls my age and made friends.

Sorry for the long post. Please post your feelings as you see fit, I have thick skin. I will follow up with some shorter questions later.

I see that GQ's career advice is as half-baked as their style advice.

Jobs are like girlfriends ... you don't "have to" marry your highschool sweetheart, but ... it'd be asinine to break up with a perfectly good girl just because you had spent four years with her and some glossy magasine told you that you shouldn't spend more time with a girl than that. (Jobs are also NOT like girlfriends in many ways, and you can change jobs several times in your life all the while married to the same woman. But still ...)

 

[franz]

I think you are right with your intent, but there may have been more effective strategies.

Perhaps scheduling a meeting with your current employer would have been good. Then, you could have explained that you are considering this other job offer, but that you wanted to talk to him about your prospects at the current place first. Your new employer would also have appreciated the loyalty if you let them know that you could not take their position until you had served out the full two weeks promised to your old employer - keep in mind that they see what you do to the old employer and recognize that you may eventually do the same to them.

I think you can treat this situation as a lesson-learned on the importance of finesse. I agree with the comments above. The ideal outcome is one in which you leave your old position on the best possible terms (without compromising your goals). There's no telling whether in the future you may end up working with your former boss or someone he knows.

Congrats on the new job and good luck!

 

[Tannhauser]

I would also advise against the advice from GQ. These days, you should count yourself lucky just to have a job...

 

[Jim]

We make plans and the gods laugh, best of luck to you.