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Wanton destruction

Esox

I didnt know
Ambassador
For those curious about the Fatip Le Sorto vs. Old Type style slants, the Le Sorto is more like a Gillette New than an Old, and we can't bend the New, so they will each offer a unique shaving experience.
There went the vision I had of a NEW SC slant...


That's a big reason why the Gillette Old Type was the razor of choice for this project. This changes the way it shaves. I'd say it "fixes" it, but people might get offended.

Well... more offended. :)
Good God man! TobyC just sat bolt upright in bed and doesnt know why! lol

Old Types can be fickle. I mentioned my Single Ring in the other thread. It was unusable in the condition it was in. Once I worked it a bit it became quite smooth. My #1 DE is a Fatip Grande OC and that Single Ring is at least as smooth.

My made in Canada Old Type on the other hand is perfectly straight.

Canadian.jpg

Thats the smoothest DE I've used. Because it is so straight and the blade is forced against the flats on the tops of the teeth in the comb equally for its width, I never feel the blade, even using it steeply. I only feel the teeth of the comb.

A byproduct of that makes it my most unforgiving DE and possibly even more unforgiving of weakness of technique than my GEM MMOC, which is my top dog. Does an unforgiving razor need 'fixing'? Perhaps, but it makes more sense to me to refine ones technique. That however, is a very high hurdle when using a Feather blade in that Canadian Old.

If you wouldnt mind, describe for myself and likely others how turning it into a slant would "fix" it. I'm not getting my head around the intricacies of it. Its not that I doubt you or am calling you out about it, I just need to understand lol. Theres a reason I'm a founding member of BOSC and it aint because I own 100 razors either ;) haha.
 
There went the vision I had of a NEW SC slant...




Good God man! TobyC just sat bolt upright in bed and doesnt know why! lol
That right there is the funniest thing I have ever read here on the forum. I could picture it perfectly in my minds eye.
C19309A0-BF3D-44D7-9CAE-1E8F6711BE22.gif
 
There went the vision I had of a NEW SC slant...




Good God man! TobyC just sat bolt upright in bed and doesnt know why! lol

Old Types can be fickle. I mentioned my Single Ring in the other thread. It was unusable in the condition it was in. Once I worked it a bit it became quite smooth. My #1 DE is a Fatip Grande OC and that Single Ring is at least as smooth.

My made in Canada Old Type on the other hand is perfectly straight.

View attachment 1137045

Thats the smoothest DE I've used. Because it is so straight and the blade is forced against the flats on the tops of the teeth in the comb equally for its width, I never feel the blade, even using it steeply. I only feel the teeth of the comb.

A byproduct of that makes it my most unforgiving DE and possibly even more unforgiving of weakness of technique than my GEM MMOC, which is my top dog. Does an unforgiving razor need 'fixing'? Perhaps, but it makes more sense to me to refine ones technique. That however, is a very high hurdle when using a Feather blade in that Canadian Old.

If you wouldnt mind, describe for myself and likely others how turning it into a slant would "fix" it. I'm not getting my head around the intricacies of it. Its not that I doubt you or am calling you out about it, I just need to understand lol. Theres a reason I'm a founding member of BOSC and it aint because I own 100 razors either ;) haha.
The Fatip Grande ain't broke either but I'm telling you lo Storto is better. Mo' rigid mo' better is all I got to explain.

Sent from my LG-US998 using Tapatalk
 
There went the vision I had of a NEW SC slant...




Good God man! TobyC just sat bolt upright in bed and doesnt know why! lol

Old Types can be fickle. I mentioned my Single Ring in the other thread. It was unusable in the condition it was in. Once I worked it a bit it became quite smooth. My #1 DE is a Fatip Grande OC and that Single Ring is at least as smooth.

My made in Canada Old Type on the other hand is perfectly straight.

View attachment 1137045

That's the smoothest DE I've used. Because it is so straight and the blade is forced against the flats on the tops of the teeth in the comb equally for its width, I never feel the blade, even using it steeply. I only feel the teeth of the comb.

A byproduct of that makes it my most unforgiving DE and possibly even more unforgiving of weakness of technique than my GEM MMOC, which is my top dog. Does an unforgiving razor need 'fixing'? Perhaps, but it makes more sense to me to refine ones technique. That however, is a very high hurdle when using a Feather blade in that Canadian Old.

If you wouldn't mind, describe for myself and likely others how turning it into a slant would "fix" it. I'm not getting my head around the intricacies of it. Its not that I doubt you or am calling you out about it, I just need to understand lol. There's a reason I'm a founding member of BOSC and it ain't because I own 100 razors either ;) haha.
As for the New LC... I'm going to give that one another try at a later point. A local (to me) member on another forum has an appalling (blade left in it to rust away to nothing, destroying a good chunk of plating) example of a New Improved Tuckaway that he wants to try slanting. I'll let you guys know how that goes.

As you noted, condition matters quite a bit to an old type. Dents in the corner of the caps would warp and even shatter blades. It was even part of the legal arguments that ASR (american safety razor) used in their lawsuit against Gillette. One function of the jig is to hold the baseplate and cap in alignment with each other and presses both into an ideal "shape," or at least a nearly ideal shape. In that sense, it corrects flaws imparted to the razor by 100 years of use and travel.

Taking a nearly perfect old type example, you mentioned that it is the smoothest, but also most unforgiving razor you own.

Slanting and comparing the two, you would probably say that slanting it made it more forgiving. You would still have blade feel, but not the sense of an imminent bite. I would say it's smoother, and you might disagree.

As for TobyC, he has made his thoughts on the matter quite clear on another forum. He didn't use the words "wanton destruction," but the sentiment was there.

Yeah....

Not a happy camper.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Ambassador
As for the New LC... I'm going to give that one another try at a later point. A local (to me) member on another forum has an appalling (blade left in it to rust away to nothing, destroying a good chunk of plating) example of a New Improved Tuckaway that he wants to try slanting. I'll let you guys know how that goes.

As you noted, condition matters quite a bit to an old type. Dents in the corner of the caps would warp and even shatter blades. It was even part of the legal arguments that ASR (american safety razor) used in their lawsuit against Gillette. One function of the jig is to hold the baseplate and cap in alignment with each other and presses both into an ideal "shape," or at least a nearly ideal shape. In that sense, it corrects flaws imparted to the razor by 100 years of use and travel.

Taking a nearly perfect old type example, you mentioned that it is the smoothest, but also most unforgiving razor you own.

Slanting and comparing the two, you would probably say that slanting it made it more forgiving. You would still have blade feel, but not the sense of an imminent bite. I would say it's smoother, and you might disagree.

As for TobyC, he has made his thoughts on the matter quite clear on another forum. He didn't use the words "wanton destruction," but the sentiment was there.

Yeah....

Not a happy camper.
The LC might be the better choice but those bases are still pretty thick. The SC base is quite substantial and would take a lot of pressure to impart that curve.

More forgiving would be a good thing. Its a razor I can really enjoy with a fresh Feather blade but that combination is definitely unforgiving. I've found myself bleeding, profusely, and I didnt feel a thing.

Yes... I'm sure he has haha.
 

Raven Koenes

My precious!
Contributor
For those curious about the Fatip Le Sorto vs. Old Type style slants, the Le Sorto is more like a Gillette New than an Old, and we can't bend the New, so they will each offer a unique shaving experience. Any gripes I have about Fatip is purely related to my misgivings about the razor's build quality, not it's shaving ability. From everything I've read, the Le Sorto is one of the few Fatip razors that offers consistent and even blade exposure.
Design wise Fatip OC's are based off the Old Type. The only way it may be like the New Type is it's thick. The New has gap the Fatip does not. I'm with TobyC that gap is the enemy. I'm sure he does have a bit to say about your project lol. He's rarely at a loss for words. I for one like your project. :thumbsup:

Here's a gratuitous phote of a 1980's twelve prong Fatip unlike the 11 prong Mk1 and Mk2 Fatips. I bought it from a person who acquired it in estate sale in Italy. They hold up. It had years of soap scum. Whoever owened it did not believe in cleaning it. It did clean up well:
018_22.jpg
 
Design wise Fatip OC's are based off the Old Type. The only way it may be like the New Type is it's thick. The New has gap the Fatip does not. I'm with TobyC that gap is the enemy. I'm sure he does have a bit to say about your project lol. He's rarely at a loss for words. I for one like your project. :thumbsup:

Here's a gratuitous phote of a 1980's twelve prong Fatip unlike the 11 prong Mk1 and Mk2 Fatips. I bought it from a person who acquired it in estate sale in Italy. They hold up. It had years of soap scum. Whoever owened it did not believe in cleaning it. It did clean up well:
View attachment 1138198
Jmudrick brought up that point in a different thread as well, that the Fatip shares more with the old type than the New, at least in shaving profile.

I conceded him that point, and to you as well. Despite those similarities, the one person (Jmudrick) who has used both said the razors do not feel or shave the same.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Ambassador
Jmudrick brought up that point in a different thread as well, that the Fatip shares more with the old type than the New, at least in shaving profile.

I conceded him that point, and to you as well. Despite those similarities, the one person (Jmudrick) who has used both said the razors do not feel or shave the same.
The curve in the bases and the shapes of the teeth, along with the blade exposure and guard span distance is completely different between a Fatip and an Old Type.

My Fatip Grande.

Fatip.Gap.Guard.Span.jpg

Canadian Old. Which has no blade gap at all. If anything, it might have .002" 'edge gap', assuming the blade edge is in the very center of the blade, but thats about it.

Canadian.jpg

Fatip Grande compared to a NEW SC.

IMG_2111.jpg IMG_2114.jpg

NEW SC. @rabidus measured several, I think 7, NEW SC bases and found they all had the exact same .023" blade gap. Whereas blade gaps among NEW LC bases varied by .017" or more.

NEWSC_Gap-Exposure.JPG

I believe the SC bases were machined and the LC bases were stamped. Which is also, at least in part, why the correct SC cap will only fit the SC base. Where the LC cap is much the same as the other NEW caps as well as the Tech. Most if not all are interchangeable, with the SC cap being the only exception I'm aware of.

The Fatip base is the most substantial of them all.
 
They are asking what I payed for my Roedter 1909 (destroyed Fatip) with shipping from the Netherlands lol.
This is an apt thread for that razor to be mentioned. For any guests who might stumble on this thread, the Roedter 1909 is a modified Fatip. The inside of the top cap is ground down. The blade is held nearly horizontal, and mostly unsupported. The resulting shave can best be described as "riding the razor's edge."

It's one of, if not the most aggressive DE razor ever made. Polarbeard, a noted fan of aggressive razors, binned his for being unusable.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Ambassador
This is an apt thread for that razor to be mentioned. For any guests who might stumble on this thread, the Roedter 1909 is a modified Fatip. The inside of the top cap is ground down. The blade is held nearly horizontal, and mostly unsupported. The resulting shave can best be described as "riding the razor's edge."

It's one of, if not the most aggressive DE razor ever made. Polarbeard, a noted fan of aggressive razors, binned his for being unusable.
Yeah, not exactly confidence inspiring.

18028610ml.jpg

1645949.jpg
 
Looking at the close-ups, it reminds me a lot of the first gen shake sharp razors, at least exposure wise. A lot of people like to stack two blades (not shims) in those, and claim that the resulting shave is one of the best attainable. I wonder if the same could be done with that razor.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Ambassador
Looking at the close-ups, it reminds me a lot of the first gen shake sharp razors, at least exposure wise. A lot of people like to stack two blades (not shims) in those, and claim that the resulting shave is one of the best attainable. I wonder if the same could be done with that razor.
A ShakeSharp with twin blades is @jmudrick's best setup I believe.

I tried in my Grande. It didnt work very well with Polsilver blades.

*Disclaimer*

I accept no responsibility for anyone other than myself in trying this. If you try it, you're on your own the same as I am.
:)
______

Well, theres no other way to do it, than to do it..

Two Feather blades loaded.

All pics are cropped, but left at their original 10mp resolution.

IMG_2505.JPG IMG_2506.JPG IMG_2507.JPG IMG_2508.JPG IMG_2509.JPG IMG_2510.JPG

They're both quite secure. The camera can see better than I can and they loaded without a problem really. I didnt even have to fiddle with blade alignment. Aligning the blades to each other was more a challenge and even not that much of one.

I held them as I would any blade between thumb pad and the pad on my index finger, pinched them together lengthwise, then gently used needle nose pliers to align them equally edge to edge by carefully squeezing the edges of the blade tabs. Perfectly aligned in less than 5 seconds.

Both blades were previously used so either because of the left over soap residue and/or the wax on the blades, they stuck together, but were easily aligned with little chance of that changing loading them with care.

Aligning blades in Fatip razors is not the chore many seem to think it is. I just did it with two blades without any issues...

Feather blades are on the thick side for DE blades being 0.00410”/0.104mm thick. Only 4 other blades are thicker of the 36 we measured.

The edges are so close together I'm honestly not sure how much of a difference it will make. When I do try this it will be with Polsilver blades, that are even thinner being 0.00400”/0.102mm thick.

I suspect this will work at least as well as a single blade and perhaps, quite a lot better as @jmudrick suggested.


Polsilver SI Twin.

48 1/2 hours since last shave.

Proraso Red face lathered. Go buy some. Dont make me tell you again! lol

I loaded a fresh blade on top of a single use blade, squared them up. Wiped my face with a wet hand and started lathering.

410928.gif


I thought I'd start a more traditional shave, WTG first pass. Starting right side, top of my side burn and stroked straight N-S. Tuggy! I did the right side of my face from top of cheek to my jawline and quite tuggy. Not comfortable at all. When I got to the side of my mouth I gave up and pulled the new blade and loaded it in my Regent for next shave.

I finished the WTG pass, lathered again and started S-N for the second pass.

I only had to do my neck after that so I started buffing ATG as usual. Finished with a nice BBS shave.

No surprises in the shave itself, but the stacking DE blades theory is gone. Curiosity satisfied.
As I understand it, the ShakeSharp stacks the blades differently and the edges align differently.
 

Raven Koenes

My precious!
Contributor
This is an apt thread for that razor to be mentioned. For any guests who might stumble on this thread, the Roedter 1909 is a modified Fatip. The inside of the top cap is ground down. The blade is held nearly horizontal, and mostly unsupported. The resulting shave can best be described as "riding the razor's edge."

It's one of, if not the most aggressive DE razor ever made. Polarbeard, a noted fan of aggressive razors, binned his for being unusable.
I have yet to try out my Roedter 1909. My hopes are that it is quite unusable. I'd really like to pair it with a Graham Field blade for a trial run.
 
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