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Wanton destruction

There’s an active thread on this site re a Gillette slant that troubles me.
There’s a fellow who makes slant razors out of Gillette Old types. One was destroyed in the process, the others are of doubtful utility. I wrote on the thread that the destruction of these wonderful razors made me sad.
In truth, it makes me mad. No more Gillette Olds are being made. There is a finite supply of these historically significant razors that shave well. They are valuable as artifacts and as useful shavers. To bend them in a metal press into useless bits of metal is sacrilege.
Gentlemen, the insanity has to stop. It’s just shaving. Lather, shave, rinse. This isn’t complicated. We do not need “experimenters” twisting vintage razors into pretzels to remove hair from our faces. For God’s sake STOP!!!
 
I saw that as well. I was really into vintage collecting for a while. One thing I noticed was that a lot of the razors I saw for sale over the years are still being resold over and over. You tend to recognize them. You see this on BST and elsewhere. It is a myth to think that because millions of these razors were produced, millions remain. I think what we see for sale now are the remnants of estate sales over the past 2 decades. I’d be willing to bet that there are probably less than several thousand available for purchase while the others remain with proud owners. Out of those several thousand in attics and basements, probably over half won’t make it to auction and will be eventually thrown out/recycled.

Just in the last 4 years, I’ve seen vintage DE razors almost completely disappear from antique stores and malls. I used to see a lot of Techs and Super Speeds, 1940s and up and the occasional Old Type or New. I just don’t see them anymore. If I do see vintage DE in antique stores now, there are from the 70s and 80s with an occasional zamack Tech. Not too many of them to be seen
 
I've been collecting things for a while. There are a lot of different phases. Look at vintage cars and motorcycles -- some people restore them showroom new, others customize, others make a rat rod or rat bike out of it. Old aircraft, specifically military aircraft from WWII, ruled the unlimited air race circuit for decades. I've been in that game and it truly sucks to see a million-dollar airplane that you've poured a couple years of work into turn itself into a fireball, but that's one aspect of the hobby and all the pressure to keep those old warbirds flying keeps them in front of people as something other than a static display at the local airport covered with bird poop and graffiti.

How many side tables made from antique treadle sewing machine bases have you seen? (Too darn many.) Ditto for cutesy lamps or model tractors or even jigsaws made out of the machine heads themselves. I've been known to slide in and grab a vintage sewing machine out from under the nose of some person who's discussing with her husband what it would take to turn it into a lamp.

I don't think we're going to see a sudden rash of people turning old Gillettes into slants. Frankly, it's still an old Gilette and there are much better slants out there purpose-made to be such. What we have seen with that other thread is creativity and ingenuity, curiosity and engineering exploration. Perhaps there are modern razors out there that could benefit from this treatment, or maybe it's just an interesting experiment that gives some intellectual satisfaction for solving the technical problems.

Point being, I can think of lots of ways the concepts and techniques involved can be used in other ways. As someone who does not engage with plain DE razors much, making a slant out of a common vintage one piques my interest, though more for the engineering challenge. They've already said they did it out of curiosity and aren't going to make a thing out of it.

O.H.
 
I’ll show you a heartbreaking mod that will give you nightmares. Here is picture 1. Everything ok so far, right?
 

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Here is picture two of that Double Ring. I have cleaned it up a bit, but I’m guessing based on the patina that was up top, the original owner or owner’s son liked the look of the New Improved so much, he decided to grind down the top of the baseplate of this razor to make one. He did a fairly good job of it, but didn’t polish it down (Marks remain) probably because he went a little too far down and it isn’t perfectly square. Shaves ok. At first I thought it was a clone, like a Golf, but members here helped me out, found the worn markings on the handle after cleaning and took measurements of the baseplate.
 

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Fear not. I have many vintage razors from 1907 on. They are all lovingly cared for and used. As long as I am alive no harm will come to them. I think I will use one of my old types for shave on Friday.
 
What makes me mad is seeing fine razors sitting unused in somebody's ahem "den". I couldn't care less how they are used as long as they are. There are people who object to my no razor is safe frankenrazoring , and all I can say is get a life. I can indeed appreciate all that the perpetrators of this minor miracle continue to contribute to the hobby and I'm sending them a razor for elective surgery this weekend..

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A razor is an inanimate object. It does not have feelings and does not care what happens to it. Nobody owes it anything. And if they were valuable relics with high demand, then if you wanted to buy one you wouldn’t be able to choose from dozens on eBay at any given moment at prices starting below the cost of a hearty breakfast at the local diner. There are more well-used copies out there than there is demand for them. The world ought not miss the perhaps fewer than 100 that will experience this operation.

I think it’s safe to assume that no one will put an actual collectible Old through this, and the others are replaceable. I can’t get offended.
 
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As the "fellow" referred to in the original post, I could care less.

Show me a single post where someone was butthurt over the fact that Valencia made their slants out of Leresche razors. And if doing so caused the "wanton destruction" of a Leresche razor, why are Valencia slant razors worth considerably more than a comparable Leresche?

How is what I'm doing any different? If I'd been alive to do it during the 1920's, it would just be an extremely rare and valuable razor varient. But because I'm doing it in 2020, you guys are acting like I'm vandalizing razors...
...
Just in the last 4 years, I’ve seen vintage DE razors almost completely disappear from antique stores and malls. I used to see a lot of Techs and Super Speeds, 1940s and up and the occasional Old Type or New. I just don’t see them anymore. If I do see vintage DE in antique stores now, there are from the 70s and 80s with an occasional zamack Tech. Not too many of them to be seen
The explanation for that is simple. Antique store owners have discovered the joys of selling on eBay.
 
I have been looking for a while for a 1950s Gillette ball-end Tech with a solid etched logo on the head to replace the heirloom one of my late Dad's l gave to my #1 son. Scarce as hen's teeth to get one that even has a faded logo etched on it @ a reasonable price l have noticed when l look for a new to me Tech on the 'Bay, eh? Anything that looks O.K. seems WAY $$$ too rich for me at this moment to pull the trigger on.
 
I have been looking for a while for a 1950s Gillette ball-end Tech with a solid etched logo on the head to replace the heirloom one of my late Dad's l gave to my #1 son. Scarce as hen's teeth to get one that even has a faded logo etched on it @ a reasonable price l have noticed when l look for a new to me Tech on the 'Bay, eh? Anything that looks O.K. seems WAY $$$ too rich for me at this moment to pull the trigger on.
Gold plated or chrome?
 
Show me a single post where someone was butthurt over the fact that Valencia made their slants out of Leresche razors.
Valencia were purposebuilt by Leresche.

The explanation for that is simple. Antique store owners have discovered the joys of selling on eBay.
Or, worse, they look on ebay, price their items the highest ridiculous price found on the bay, then are surprised nobody buys their stuff anymore and figure there's no market for them.

What makes me mad is seeing fine razors sitting unused in somebody's ahem "den".
Having literally hundreds of the buggers that does tend to happen. Should I shave daily and use every razor that I have fitting blades for once it'd take two years before I use the same one a second time.

That said: I consider this an interesting experiment. Way more interesting than making a DEvette out of razors.
 
Valencia were purposebuilt by Leresche.


Or, worse, they look on ebay, price their items the highest ridiculous price found on the bay, then are surprised nobody buys their stuff anymore and figure there's no market for them.


Having literally hundreds of the buggers that does tend to happen. Should I shave daily and use every razor that I have fitting blades for once it'd take two years before I use the same one a second time.
.
If you're me yes that's exactly what you do. I use a different razor every day (have a couple hundred). Of course some see more action in the rotation than others, and I'm not obsessive about logging what gets used. Admittedly family members think I'm nuts and I wouldn't argue the point.



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Like most people I suppose when I find a razor I like it to be in original condition and for that reason I do not modify my own as I assume that future owners may feel the same way. So, I would not swap handles on a Gibbs adjustable nor coat a Fatboy in gaudy gunkote colours. This modification is harmless but I would hate it to catch on and become a trend even if they become the new Valencia. Valencia were not modifying vintage razors of course so the argument is moot. However, people are free to do what they choose with their own possessions just as I am free to have and politely state my opinion.
 
As the "fellow" referred to in the original post, I could care less.

Show me a single post where someone was butthurt over the fact that Valencia made their slants out of Leresche razors. And if doing so caused the "wanton destruction" of a Leresche razor, why are Valencia slant razors worth considerably more than a comparable Leresche?

How is what I'm doing any different? If I'd been alive to do it during the 1920's, it would just be an extremely rare and valuable razor varient. But because I'm doing it in 2020, you guys are acting like I'm vandalizing razors...

The explanation for that is simple. Antique store owners have discovered the joys of selling on eBay.
If you feel that any modifications you make to any razor you own or have been asked to modify by others would be an extremely rare or valuable variant, then you should do whatever you like, that is your prerogative.

My only difference of opinion with you are your statements about numbers. I do not disagree about value, specifically a lower dollar value razor meaning simply that those OT razors in the $30 range on auction are on the lower end of what is available today, what is left so to speak.

What you see in the $30 range are the beat up versions of really all there is. Their plating is gone or mostly gone, teeth bent and or missing, handles cracked (It is a myth that all OT ball handles are cracked, I have 4 examples which aren’t), bent baseplates, bent top caps and stripped/worn threads. These examples stay on auction for long periods of time and are constantly being re-listed and resold. The ones well over $100 up to several thousand are those you would find in very good to true mint condition. These are rare simply because people hold onto them. When they are sold, the prices are astronomical even though they are the same model. As an example, the same holds true for vintage cars.

The razors you mention in the $30 range, some of which without significant damage/issues can be replated, but this is very costly. That ok condition OT without plate you purchased will end up costing well over $100 depending on the plate and the quality of the work.

I also speak frequently with antique dealers. My wife is really into antique furniture so we travel both locally and out of state and meet with many people. Most if not all of the antique vendors I talk to do not use auction websites as a rule. This is because they pay rent at a space at a mall location or own/lease the store property to sell the antiques. eBay is also very pricey to sell on and sellers have to deal with many hassles.

These vendors obtain the vast majority of their inventory from estate sales. Although most of their bread and butter is furniture sales, they specialize in other things as well.

When I observed the steep decline in vintage razors manufactured prior to the 1960s at these locations, I started asking these vendors about the decline. One thing I’ve heard repeatedly is simply that these razors are no longer found during estate sales. Persons passing away now might have owned a 195, Slim or Super Speed, but the majority tossed those razors in the late 70s and 80s.

The bottom line is that these razors aren’t really found anymore after people pass away. As explained to me repeatedly, they had large cases of these razors for years and there was a buying boom and most were sold within the last several years after DE made a comeback.

Ultimately I’m not trying to convince you to do anything otherwise nor have I ever offered any opinion, I’m just telling you that comments on your other thread about millions of these razors out there is not true. Your decision to alter a few or a hundred of these razors is simply yours or the decision of the other owners of those razors.
 
If you feel that any modifications you make to any razor you own or have been asked to modify by others would be an extremely rare or valuable variant, then you should do whatever you like, that is your prerogative.

My only difference of opinion with you are your statements about numbers. I do not disagree about value, specifically a lower dollar value razor meaning simply that those OT razors in the $30 range on auction are on the lower end of what is available today, what is left so to speak.

What you see in the $30 range are the beat up versions of really all there is. Their plating is gone or mostly gone, teeth bent and or missing, handles cracked (It is a myth that all OT ball handles are cracked, I have 4 examples which aren’t), bent baseplates, bent top caps and stripped/worn threads. These examples stay on auction for long periods of time and are constantly being re-listed and resold. The ones well over $100 up to several thousand are those you would find in very good to true mint condition. These are rare simply because people hold onto them. When they are sold, the prices are astronomical even though they are the same model. As an example, the same holds true for vintage cars.

The razors you mention in the $30 range, some of which without significant damage/issues can be replated, but this is very costly. That ok condition OT without plate you purchased will end up costing well over $100 depending on the plate and the quality of the work.

I also speak frequently with antique dealers. My wife is really into antique furniture so we travel both locally and out of state and meet with many people. Most if not all of the antique vendors I talk to do not use auction websites as a rule. This is because they pay rent at a space at a mall location or own/lease the store property to sell the antiques. eBay is also very pricey to sell on and sellers have to deal with many hassles.

These vendors obtain the vast majority of their inventory from estate sales. Although most of their bread and butter is furniture sales, they specialize in other things as well.

When I observed the steep decline in vintage razors manufactured prior to the 1960s at these locations, I started asking these vendors about the decline. One thing I’ve heard repeatedly is simply that these razors are no longer found during estate sales. Persons passing away now might have owned a 195, Slim or Super Speed, but the majority tossed those razors in the late 70s and 80s.

The bottom line is that these razors aren’t really found anymore after people pass away. As explained to me repeatedly, they had large cases of these razors for years and there was a buying boom and most were sold within the last several years after DE made a comeback.

Ultimately I’m not trying to convince you to do anything otherwise nor have I ever offered any opinion, I’m just telling you that comments on your other thread about millions of these razors out there is not true. Your decision to alter a few or a hundred of these razors is simply yours or the decision of the other owners of those razors.
I don't know about $30 being a thing, it took me about 5 minutes to buy one in solid shape for $13 on eBay on Sunday, which is the one I'll slantify (Another one is packed up). People who know enough about razors to list as "Old Type" might ask $30, and those are the ones showing up in Completed Sales but one certainly can do better with very little trouble.



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