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Want to Make Logo Stamp for Razor Tangs

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
I want to carve out a stamp for my own brand logo, for stamping razor tangs. Will case hardened mild steel do, or do I need to use my tool steel? What temper color/temp for O1? Thanks. I will be stamping annealed O1, maybe some 1095 on occasion.
 
I would be cautious about stamping cold steel with an impact based delivery. Maybe a rolling press would work well on cold, but that's a pretty involved setup. The risk you run is cracking/breaking either the punch or the target (even if annealed, high carbon steel will still be fairly hard compared to mild steel.)

ideally, just heating up the tang to even a dull red (orange preferred) will be much better.

O1 would be a better choice than mild, research the hardness of the S-series steels, they are designed to resist shock. If they can get rockwell of 55 or better that would be a great way to go.

If not hitting heated tangs, I would temper into the purple/blue range... letting the back of the stamp get MUCH hotter, and letting the heat walk up to the 'cutting' head. If you decide to stamp hot, only soften the hammer side, and leave the business end untempered, it will auto-temper itself in contact with hot steel.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Thanks for the informative reply. Stamping the tang while hot won't be a problem. I don't have to do it cold.
 
This is a little old, but... you do not need to stamp the tang hot. Cold will be just fine for unhardened steel through up to steel hardened at low-30's Rc. Make your stamp from tool steel, do NOT use case hardened mild steel. If you do, the stamp will deform under the case and your stamp will not last long at all. You want pretty close to 60Rc at your punch surface - but it's important to use an impact resistant tool steel. A good choice of tool steel for a punch would be from the S or D series. Others may chip. I would also only harden the business end, leave the impact end soft so it doesn't chip/damage your hammer. Another thing you might want to look into is electrical etching. Logos made with that method are a little nicer looking.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
This is a little old, but... you do not need to stamp the tang hot. Cold will be just fine for unhardened steel through up to steel hardened at low-30's Rc. Make your stamp from tool steel, do NOT use case hardened mild steel. If you do, the stamp will deform under the case and your stamp will not last long at all. You want pretty close to 60Rc at your punch surface - but it's important to use an impact resistant tool steel. A good choice of tool steel for a punch would be from the S or D series. Others may chip. I would also only harden the business end, leave the impact end soft so it doesn't chip/damage your hammer. Another thing you might want to look into is electrical etching. Logos made with that method are a little nicer looking.

Thanks. I thought I would use either electrical or chemical etching on the blade but I was leaning toward a stamp for the tang. The razors will mostly be O1 and the steel will be annealed for primary grinding.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Waiting to see the outcome of this adventure.

You will be waiting for a while. I still haven't built the shop yet. It is all in pieces in a storage building. GF took delivery, I am at sea. Slab is poured. When I get home the building goes up, then I got to make or buy grinders and a HT oven. And build a boat like I promised. But eventually...
 
You will be waiting for a while. I still haven't built the shop yet. It is all in pieces in a storage building. GF took delivery, I am at sea. Slab is poured. When I get home the building goes up, then I got to make or buy grinders and a HT oven. And build a boat like I promised. But eventually...

I've got time.

Good things are worth waiting for.

.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
I've been in a few workshops of. Traditional knifemakers (I did a three day course with one of them), and they all did marking the same way - AFTER treatment and final grinding.

They uses a press similar to this...

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HP1000x Heavy Duty Hand Press

... a good heavy duty cast iron one, usually with a bespoke Edward Pryor marking stamp, and they bring the rack down with their offhand onto the workpiece and bear down, then give it a good whack on top of the rack with a lump hammer to drive the stamp in.

It lets you be very precise in the stamp location, and stops the stamp bouncing out of your hand, or only partially stamping if you've got got everything perfectly square.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Nice. But the stamp site says only good to 37rc. My razors will probably be too hard for the stamp to last for any reasonable time. So it still looks like hot stamping is gonna be my preference, or at least cold stamping before HT. I do like the press idea though and it is on my get it list, now, and I would rather let Edward Pryor make my stamp as I am no great shakes as a carver. Plus they could probably make me an identical new one when the first one wears too much. So thanks for those links.

I wonder if I could stamp both sides same time? Made In USA on back side, logo on show side? Then maybe etch a serial number on the tail. This is not gonna be a one off thing so I want professional grade details rightt from the start. No more bbq grill & hair dryer forge for me. And the Dremel will get kinda lonely. I might have 50 or 60 descaled GD66 blanks for sale cheap too, once my blades are coming out good enough to suit me.
 
Hey Slash when you get this all done hope your going to take photos, and show us as it sounds like your going to have loads of fun.

And I'm going to be following you on it as I love the ideas behind it all.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Nice. But the stamp site says only good to 37rc. My razors will probably be too hard for the stamp to last for any reasonable time. So it still looks like hot stamping is gonna be my preference, or at least cold stamping before HT. I do like the press idea though and it is on my get it list, now, and I would rather let Edward Pryor make my stamp as I am no great shakes as a carver. Plus they could probably make me an identical new one when the first one wears too much. So thanks for those links.

I wonder if I could stamp both sides same time? Made In USA on back side, logo on show side? Then maybe etch a serial number on the tail. This is not gonna be a one off thing so I want professional grade details rightt from the start. No more bbq grill & hair dryer forge for me. And the Dremel will get kinda lonely. I might have 50 or 60 descaled GD66 blanks for sale cheap too, once my blades are coming out good enough to suit me.

What will you be treating them to? High 40s, low 50s? I would imagine they'd lose their edge flex and springiness much above that.

Here's a couple of others to consider...

Steel Stamps and Dies, Handstamps - Permanent Marking Equipment from Eyre and Baxter

Steel Marking Punches from NCB Marking Equipment Limited

Might be worth firing them an email enquiry off. Worst case scenario is you need to stamp after rough grinding, before the hardening and tempering. If there's anything you want me to have a chat with any of them about for you, I'm local so I can give them a call quite easily. One of them might be able to provide the press too, if you can't source one locally.

I wouldn't try to stamp both sides together, as you'll either need more force, or get less penetration. Also, the blade will be "held" between the two stamps, so no stable base for the blade, and they might both penetrate to different depths based on the surface area and geometries of each stamp. For the sake of a few seconds, I'd do them as two seperate ops.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Hey Slash when you get this all done hope your going to take photos, and show us as it sounds like your going to have loads of fun.

And I'm going to be following you on it as I love the ideas behind it all.

I'll post all I can post without breaking forum rules, but only after I am making razors I can be proud of. In the meantime, stay tuned for the current batch of Gold Dollar mods, to be completed when I get home in September.

But for a teaser, the first batch of my own blades will look a lot like my GD mods, just slightly bigger and with an upswept shank.
 
Stamping a hardened blade/tang is not a good idea for stamp longevity. Those knife guys are not stamping a 60Rc surface post-hardening, I guarantee you that. To an extreme, that would be like trying to stamp a knife made of butter with a stamp made of butter - not going to go well.

Ideally, you'd stamp when the steel is soft, then grind the upset steel back to flush - that would look the best and give the sharpest lines. Harden afterward or temper the tang down soft after heat treat and then stamp and grind it flush.

The electric etch can actually produce a nice sharp edged logo that can be quite deep if you do it right with a proper stencil. I'd recommend looking into that a little further before you make a final decision on what to do.

I'm sure he'll be hardening the razors to at least 60Rc. Steel does NOT change its elasticity (really it does, but only a tiny fraction of a percent, not enough to be noticeably different) no matter the hardness. It always stays the same. What changes with hardness is YIELD strength. So a piece of steel of the same shape and dimension will flex the same at 30Rc as it does at 60Rc. The difference is the hardened piece can be flexed further without being permanently bent. At the point where the softer piece will stay bent, the harder piece will spring back to its starting point. The drawback to this is the hard piece might snap if it's bent too far. The soft one will just bend.
 
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Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
What will you be treating them to? High 40s, low 50s? I would imagine they'd lose their edge flex and springiness much above that.

Here's a couple of others to consider...

Steel Stamps and Dies, Handstamps - Permanent Marking Equipment from Eyre and Baxter

Steel Marking Punches from NCB Marking Equipment Limited

Might be worth firing them an email enquiry off. Worst case scenario is you need to stamp after rough grinding, before the hardening and tempering. If there's anything you want me to have a chat with any of them about for you, I'm local so I can give them a call quite easily. One of them might be able to provide the press too, if you can't source one locally.

I wouldn't try to stamp both sides together, as you'll either need more force, or get less penetration. Also, the blade will be "held" between the two stamps, so no stable base for the blade, and they might both penetrate to different depths based on the surface area and geometries of each stamp. For the sake of a few seconds, I'd do them as two seperate ops.

As Ekretz said, the goal is usually about 60rc. O1, which I will be using, can get that hard but 58 or 59 or so is a more realistic expectation and less technically challenging, I understand. I have never heat treated anything and then had it tested, TBH, and I won't be sacrificing many blades for testing and honestly the number means very little as long as it is in the upper 50s to low low 60s. I would bet that a lot of great razors of the past are actually only about 56RC and shave/hone just fine.

I think maybe you are right about stamping both sides at once. I was just thinking it would eliminate a step. What's my hurry, right?
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
As Ekretz said, the goal is usually about 60rc. O1, which I will be using, can get that hard but 58 or 59 or so is a more realistic expectation and less technically challenging, I understand. I have never heat treated anything and then had it tested, TBH, and I won't be sacrificing many blades for testing and honestly the number means very little as long as it is in the upper 50s to low low 60s. I would bet that a lot of great razors of the past are actually only about 56RC and shave/hone just fine.

I think maybe you are right about stamping both sides at once. I was just thinking it would eliminate a step. What's my hurry, right?

I've done a knife (under supervision) in O1 to that hardness, but didn't realise razors were that hard. Shows how little I know! If it helps, I remember the quench was done on a minimum section thickness of 2mm to prevent cracking.

As to hardness testing, when you get a blade you're happy with, if you do the Rockwell test on the tang where the pivot hole goes, it won't be destructive, and the test point wont show on final assembly. It might not show edge hardness at that point, but at least you'll get a base figure to that location so that you can test as you go and bounce between different materials casts/batches, without sacrificing blades.
 
Now, this is a good question. Have you tried to speak with someone who does this for a living? After all, I am sure that they are able to help you out. Making a logo stamp is not that complicated. You have to look for quality materials since you want them to be durable. I was looking for a custom made stamp since I own a company. At first, I have looked at different shops in my city, but I couldn't find anything. I've started looking online and I've managed to find sites like Custom stamp maker designer make your stamp online create company seal - https://mystampready.com/en/constructor/ and many others.
 
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