Wall Street Journal--article today on frags

[The Knize]

A front page of the WSJ "style" section article today tells me that the bottle a frag comes in is as important as the contents to most buyers these days. Apparently men and women buyers.

Really? If true that would be disturbing--sort of. But I frankly do not believe it is so. Newspaper writers seem to say any old thing that pops into their head sometimes.

Also, apparently 1,500 "new" fragrances were released last year, which is apparently a multiple of the number released, say, five years ago. It is said that many of these were special editions, I guess of existing scents.

I guess I am just not going to be able to keep up no matter how hard I try!

But I am also guessing that lots if not most of these are simply flankers to existing scents generally seem kind of useless and lacking any imagination, to me, anyway.

Or maybe, given what WSJ said about bottles, the bottles are what makes the "special editions." Collect them all!

No wonder that most of the scents generally available in department stores seem so much the same, and essentially mundane. (I said "most," not "all." This is definitely not true of all scents found in department stores!)

I did not finish the WSJ article, but I suppose I will.

 

[mdevine]

Since I purchased the last few bottles based off experiences with decants, the bottle didn't factor in at all. I doubt it is a factor for any of those who regularly post on the forum. I hope this is not true, as it would be disheartening to think that superficial appearances outweigh quality and substance. I find it hard to believe that more than a small percentage of adults would base their choice on the bottle.

Mike

 

[StylinLA]

I don't think we're a mainstream enough crowd in here to often grasp that botttle importance. But I remember my early per-Internet frag shopping days and the bottle was a factor. Go into any Macy's style department store and you'll see a lot of design goes into those bottles. A lot.

When you go upscale or into niche joints like Lucky Scent, it's often the opposite. Tom Ford, Creed, Lutens- okay bottles, but all pretty much the same. PG bottles couldn't be more basic.

 

[The Knize]

I think we are all on the very same page!

Maybe I was being a little unfair.

I did not mean to say the bottle should never be a factor. Or that I do not appreciate the skill that goes into designing an especially attractive bottle. I was actually thinking this morning, before I started to read the article, how much for some reason I like the way C&S bottles look, especially O&C. Among other things, again for some reason, the O&C bottle "looks" to me like what the frag smells like! <g>

If I were going to own just a handful of frags, bought in full bottles, and have them sitting on my "counter," then I suppose the appearance of an individual bottle might be sort of a tie-breaker factor between scents. For that matter, I might be inclined to decant for display any MPG scents. The MPG bottles seem to my tastes way too Rococo, but that would sure not discourage me from buying MPG juice! Actually, I think some scentmakers play to a sensibility that the plain Spartan bottle, has a "hipper" appearance. I probably buy full in on that aesthetic!

But having just a few scents, purchasing full bottles, and for the matter, having them "on display" on my counter out in intense light and swings in temperature for any length of time, is so far from my current activities, as to be completely hypothetical!

In any event, the statement that the bottle is "as important" to "most buyers" as its contents seems to me on its face absurd! Maybe a well-designed bottle would attract some to try a scent they did not know anything about. And I agree and I am guessing that for most folks posting on this board the bottle is of virtually no importance! It truly is not for me, at least these days, if it every was.

 

[StylinLA]

Robbie, we are so far in, we don't generally care about the bottle. I also don't think the average consumer would necessarily admit the bottle was as important as the scent. But I think if the bottle ropes them in, they convince themselves they like the scent as a result,but never ascribe it to the bottle design. I'm sure a lot of depends on who the person thinks they are or want to be- cool, hip, sophisticated. They design those bottles to address those sorts of things.

Most of the guys who hang here would spray on their faves from a jerry rigged coke can with an atomizer if need be. Same with many at Basenotes.

I just don't think the average guy thinks about the notes much... As long as it doesn't smell "girly" or somehow offend his nose. The bottle is the first thing he sees and he starts formulating opinions at that moment I would assert.

Now obviously I can't paint every average shopper with the same brush. Im sure many are discerning about the scent. All of us were average schmos at some point. But something clicked in us that piqued our interest. We strove to find out more and ended up in one of these forums and had our eyes opened to a whole new world of distinctions. Very similar to the whole wet shaving thing to me. I continue to be amazed at the utter lack of thought many guys I know put into shaving. They are incredulous that it takes me 10-15 minutes to shave AND that I like it.

 

[The Knize]

Robbie, we are so far in, we don't generally care about the bottle. I also don't think the average consumer would necessarily admit the bottle was as important as the scent. But I think if the bottle ropes them in, they convince themselves they like the scent as a result,but never ascribe it to the bottle design. I'm sure a lot of depends on who the person thinks they are or want to be- cool, hip, sophisticated. They design those bottles to address those sorts of things.

Most of the guys who hang here would spray on their faves from a jerry rigged coke can with an atomizer if need be. Same with many at Basenotes.

I just don't think the average guy thinks about the notes much... As long as it doesn't smell "girly" or somehow offend his nose. The bottle is the first thing he sees and he starts formulating opinions at that moment I would assert.

Now obviously I can't paint every average shopper with the same brush. Im sure many are discerning about the scent. All of us were average schmos at some point. But something clicked in us that piqued our interest. We strove to find out more and ended up in one of these forums and had our eyes opened to a whole new world of distinctions. Very similar to the whole wet shaving thing to me. I continue to be amazed at the utter lack of thought many guys I know put into shaving. They are incredulous that it takes me 10-15 minutes to shave AND that I like it.

Great post, on so many levels. I wonder if we, or at least, I started getting into this stuff partly through a desire to be "cool, hip, sophisticated." If so, it did not seem to work. What the heck happened! There seems to be a very thin line between aficionado and hopeless nerd! But, also, none of those concepts seem to even enter my head, at least anymore, as to scents. What is this thing? Addiction? Obsession? Passion? But in a way scents simply add a richness to living day to day. This world of distinctions seems to add flavor and satisfaction to existence.

And your analogy to shaving is a good one. Using the right stuff turns a chore into a pleasure. Part of the thing with shaving, it seems to me, is, assuming one has the time, how can one be at all happy to go back to the ways the overwhelming majority of folks shave? I was shaving with a DE there for awhile. Mostly the Muhle R41, which I am very impressed with. But I am back to straights. Takes more time and care but shaving with a straight with a excellent edge is just that much more satisfying.

I can see folks not being interested in scents. Scents are hardly a necessity. And we are surely aware of how different perceptions of various smells are. I am convinced that scents go to my lower brain stem in a way that I really like. I can see that being a less pronounced thing for many other people and for that matter a less pleasurable effect.

But most guys are going to shave one way or the other. How can folks not be drawn to improving that experience?

 

[michiganlover]

I did buy a bottle of Old Spice Whitewater Aftershave recently, simply because the see through glass bottle is super awesome looking, and I want to refill it over, and over again!!

I also have vintage glass bottles for Skin Bracer, Aqua Velva, Avon's Wild Country, and Clubman.

But yeah for the most part, I could care less about the bottle when it comes to colognes. A cool looking bottle means nothing if the internal contents are gross.

 

[BobK1]

We here, (on this forum) are the exception, NOT the Joe Average consumer. We are interested in the contents, the juice, the evolution, the drydown, the complexity, etc... While the average person is interested in very little other than smelling good. Or perhaps more correctly, smelling like they THINK they should. Assuming it is a man, then the object is to not smell like a girl, or perhaps at least attractive to the females. If you asked the average Old Spice (traditional) wearer, and asked him if he would wear a jasmine fragrance, he would say "no way" but we all know that he is wearing just that, a jasmine based fragrance (along with some carnation and geranium for good measure.)

If you took the average masculine fragrance that sells well in the mainstream and placed it into a dainty, pink bottle it would not sell well at all, but if you placed it into a rugged, and manly bottle it would. We all know that often the top notes are there solely to make sales, and to do so to the masses, the same would go for the bottle. It's called marketing, and it's a big business, perhaps bigger than the product itself in more cases than we would care to admit.

I could go on and on, but I would be preaching to the choir. Suffice it to say, presentation does indeed sell, and perhaps does most of it, or at least influences the perception, and that does the selling. The average person does not really know the first thing about fragrance, furthermore when he walks up to the fragrance cabinet all he has as a starting point is the look of the bottles/boxes and the artwork. If he really does not know any fragrances as a starting point, he will base his selections from that visual reference only. Hopefully he will get the chance to actually smell before making a final selection. Even if he manages to go that far, he will be making his judgment based on the top notes only, and WE understand that would also be a big mistake, but more than likely he will give up. He will simply go with something he knows, and leave the daring new choices to someone else in his life, likely female, and likely influenced more by ads and models than anything else anyway.

YMMV

 

[jakespoppy]

Changing bottles to sell the same juice strictly on the basis of the appeal of the bottle is not a new concept. I remember a large collection of Avon bottles, things like various cars, a bell, a postal box...I could go on and on, and all had the same few scents in them. I know, that was a special marketing campaign, but it surely illustrates there is opportunity to market scents through the packaging.

I agree with all of your comments, especially about us on this forum not being representative of the majority of male scent shoppers, or as you've said, the average Joe. I wouldn't purchase any scent based on the appearance of the bottle or packaging. But I do notice it and appreciate when it is especially attractive or interesting. I do, for example, enjoy the incredibly unique good looks of the Lubin Idole bottle. At least it looks good to me. It probably looks gaudy to some.

But the number one selling men's frag has a sleek, sophisticated look. Who doesn't want to appear sleek and sophisticated? And sexually attractive? Yes, that sells!

And knowing the average Joe isn't nearly as interested as we are in exactly what a scent smells like, how it might smell differently during the time it is worn, how long it lasts or how powerfully it projects, it's not surprising to me that the fragrance buying market is heavily influenced by their first impression of a scent, which it what the bottle looks like. My guess is, though, in terms of what has the most influence on fragrance sales, is that the factor having the most influence is the marketing campaign, followed by the label/brand association, with the appearance of the bottle in third place, and with the actual smell of the scent in fourth place. I would guess the first two are far more significant in impacting sales than the appearance of the bottle and the smell of the scent.

But I'm just speculating here, with no real evidence to support this, and of course, YMMV.

Great thread!

 

[The Knize]

Darn good point re putting manly juice in a pink bottle. I think that kind of outside appearance would affect my perceptions of and interest in a scent.

I can also understand how marketing affects interst in a scent, especially among the young, but me, too.

If young, I want to wear that scent that seems to be successfully marketed as the au courant, young man's lady attractor. I mean, what do I know even now about what scent might attract women? What do I know about fashionable? But I may expect Tom Ford to know. I may expect Creed to know what projects the same image as a BMW. These things become self-fullfilling. The market helps give a particular impression of a scent and for those that recognize it, it brings up certain images. I might like that if the images are right and the person is a woman. (In the meantime my wife, who is usually pretty good on these things think Lone Star Memories smells old ladyish!)

Works the other way, too. Who knows, aquatics could be my favorite scents but for my impression from marketing that they are intended for the young.

So, I suppose the bottle is a part of that marketing. A smallish part though, unless it is pink!


I do love that Indole bottle, and it probably does affect my impression of the scent. I would not consciously buy that scent for the bottle. But the fact that it comes in that bottle may have attracted me to try it in the first instance and helps me understand what the scentmaker was going for, which was brilliant.

So I guess I am not so much smarter than the WSJ after all!

 

[ShaveThis]

Funny timing that just last night I was in a department store watching a few guys picking out colognes and then reading this thread today.
I just stood there pretending to read ingredients on something and observing. They would look at all the bottles, compare and walk away with one. It was clear to me that it was a bottle type choice and had little to do with the scent. There were no samplers and you couldn't smell anything from a sealed box. I would guess that advertizing that they were exposed to had something to do with it also. To make things more odd, you could not actually see a lot of the bottles because they were in boxes that were wrapped in plastic. So perhaps it was a box choice, along with a name.

These were all colognes with movie star, sports star and other famous peoples names for the most part. Nothing there for me but this is what I see department stores selling. This is what a lot of guys are walking home with.

I thank my stars I found B&B and know a little more than them.

 

[ShaveThis]

... My guess is, though, in terms of what has the most influence on fragrance sales, is that the factor having the most influence is the marketing campaign, followed by the label/brand association, with the appearance of the bottle in third place, and with the actual smell of the scent in fourth place....

I think this is right on the money for the average Joe.

I'm not saying that some of the bottles (like others have said) aren't really cool. Wish you could buy them empty.

 

[Lamb Root]

Wish you could buy them empty.

I'm not there yet, but glass has been my fetish for many many years.

I enjoyed reading the last Knieze's post. Like someone's wiping the dust out of my eyes. Bottle is just a small part of the product marketing. Take Villoresi. What made him choose his bottle? When will he succumb to the market pressure and (additionally) change the shape/color of his product?
I really can't say what type of bottle attracts me, but I know that if the same bottle is in the center of a shelf, surrounded by big advertizing posters my eyes will most probably look elsewhere. Why? I don't know.

 

[Sancho Panza]

I'm sure the bottle design may influence some people, however I'm not sure even the average person would buy any fragrance without wanting to know what it actually smells like. Though I guess it could be like people who buy a fragrance when they're young, and then use that all their life without trying anything else. I know the members here certainly don't fall into either of those categories, it doesn't even come close to nerdyness, it's just educating yourself as to what's out there, and using other peoples experience to help guide you through the myriad of choices.