Wade and Butcher questions..

[crw]

forgive me if this is info that's been dispensed several times before, but it can just be so daunting to wade through so, so, so many posts that come up in the 'wade butcher' search..haha..

just wondering if anyone has any info on how to identify and 'date' a wade and butcher straight. I picked one up at an antique mall over the weekend and it's pure curiosity on the age.
it's a beaut, by the way. there was a series of very small chips in the blade that caused me to take it down to a 6/8 (actually just a little over at 0.775"). but over all it was in great shape and, man, is this thing hefty - it makes my harris-goar and shumate's barber feel like toys!

anyways, I'm not under some delusion that I've got a piece from american civil-war era WB but, like I said, I'm just curious.

I can append some pics of the only marking later tonight if someone thinks that'll help.

thanks!

 

[holli4pirating]

If she says "England" she's prolly post 1890; pre if not. Other than that, the tail, the grind, the general shape, and the scales can give a clue as to the date.

 

[Ru4scuba?]

forgive me if this is info that's been dispensed several times before, but it can just be so daunting to wade through so, so, so many posts that come up in the 'wade butcher' search..haha..

just wondering if anyone has any info on how to identify and 'date' a wade and butcher straight. I picked one up at an antique mall over the weekend and it's pure curiosity on the age.
it's a beaut, by the way. there was a series of very small chips in the blade that caused me to take it down to a 6/8 (actually just a little over at 0.775"). but over all it was in great shape and, man, is this thing hefty - it makes my harris-goar and shumate's barber feel like toys!

anyways, I'm not under some delusion that I've got a piece from american civil-war era WB but, like I said, I'm just curious.

I can append some pics of the only marking later tonight if someone thinks that'll help.

thanks!

Good question...was wondering the same thing. I saw one listed as a "Civil War" razor on the bay not too long ago...was curious why it was listed as such.

 

[holli4pirating]

My guess is that Civil War is to target collectors/reenactors.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Yeah, talk to a few antique dealers locally. All the ones around me tell me that their straights are bought almost exclusively by Civil War reenactors. Basically to an antique dealer, all straights are "civil war pieces".

 

[crw]

here are a few pics, if anyone is interested..scales are, indeed, horn by the way and the thing is over a quarter of an inch thick where the stamp is..and that stamp is the only mark on it.

thanks for any info you can provide.

 

[holli4pirating]

Almost positive those aren't horn.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I have a set of the same stuff in a lighter shade (also on a W&B). It behaves exactly like horn. Peels, etc. It also has some kind of grain to it (not on the surface though, somehow within the scale). But it feels and the surface looks like plastic. It is also cut like plastic and is translucent. I am of the impression it is an extremely old form of plastic that used a manufacturing process that didn't last very long at all.

 

[wuff]

That blade will need a good bit of honing to get the chip out, hope you have a DMT.

 

[crw]

I was just basing my 'horn' assessment on the fact that they have a strong 'horn' smell to them (I'm pretty familiar with the smell from other projects and growing up making powder horns and what-not with my dad).

however, when I first got it they had a fairly 'plastic' sheen to them. the discoloration happened while boiling (I know, I know, it doesn't actually 'sterilize', but it gives me peace of mind..haha). they also became very soft when boiled, then stiffened right up when they cooled.

I have heard, though, that some plastics have a fairly 'animal' smell to them when heated, although they still have that smell after being cool for a couple days now..so who knows?

thanks for all the great input, everyone! any further info is appreciated - it's really interesting!

 

[mdunn]

my gut says 20s/30s - but there are W&B experts around who could confirm/deny that.

 

[holli4pirating]

Nope, it's gotta be pre 1891 as there is no England stamp on her.

And given the hollow, those chips should come out pretty darn quick on a 1k.

 

[Bayamontate]

Nope, it's gotta be pre 1891 as there is no England stamp on her.

+1

 

[crw]

pre-1891??
that's insane! I would have thought much newer, as the look of it in person is really much better than the pictures make it seem. I also would have thought the 'sheffield' mark would suffice the 'origin' criteria..but I will take your word on it and be happy to do so!
thanks, everyone!
so, does this criteria go for all razors (i.e. a shumate's or harris, etc.) or just those of 'foreign origin' (I'm in california, so 'foreign' for me is anything outside the US)?

 

[holli4pirating]

There is a link to the Wikipedia entry for the treaty in the matching thread you started on SRP - take a look.

 

[crw]

haha, thanks - it didn't message me about that one so I hadn't seen that link..though wiki isn't exactly totally clear on it..oh well.

also, does anyone have ideas on how to fix the discoloration I inadvertently caused..?

 

[holli4pirating]

You may be able to sand/buff it out, but there is no telling how deep it goes. You could also try dye. There is a thread about it somewhere on SRP that went up relatively recently...

 

[crw]

I'll look around over there, then - thanks!

 

[treydampier]

I would guess those scales are celluloid. You can tell when you go to polish because the plastic will go back to its original black color. The celluloid also stinks when you are buffing it when it gets a little warm. I restored one with similar scales and the discoloration did not come out. Its a nice blade though. I would tend to say that those are not horn scales though.

 

[crw]

a member on SRP suggested (rather brilliantly) the possibility of vulcanite/ebonite for the scale composition.

after a bit more research (and some very light sanding last night, which acquainted me with the smell a bit further) I'm thinking that is dead on.
I found a few other pictures that looked very similar to the discoloration that these are showing and specifically one that said the discoloration only happened once under a bath of very hot water (it only appeared for me once they were in boiling water/exposed to steam). that's gotta be it because they sure don't have the celluloid smell (a long history with guitars and their various celluloid accessories, both vintage and new has well acquainted me with the smell of it).

I think my 'horn' assessment was trying to place a smell that wasn't very familiar to me (though one guy did liken the smell of the vulcanite to 'wet dog' which isn't entirely dissimilar to horn..haha).

anyways, just wanted to throw it out there - thanks everyone for the info!