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Vision question

Hi all -

A newbie here. I'm on my third week as a DE user (having moved up from a Sensor Excell) and have just about half-mastered the Merkur Vision. The one problem I've still got and don't seem to be getting anywhere near sorting is getting to the hair on my top lip, immediately under my nose - despite attacking from every angle possible, I just can't get up there. And to make matters worse, although I'm fare haired, the hair on my top lip comes through almost brown in colour - think back to the first kid at your school to get a moustache and how silly he looked, and that's the kind of problem I've got.

I know this is a problem/area of difficulty with many DEs, but another Vision owner out there must have conquered this particular sticking point without resorting back to their old cartridge razors?!!?!?

Apologies if this has been covered before, but my search left me with a LOT of threads to look through.

Hello, great badir (what is your real name), and welcome to B&B. Have you tried shaving from east-to-west in this area? Also, if you are completely unable to shave the area with you Vision, there is no rule stating that you can't purchase a second DE that has a head more suited to the task. Keep us updated on your progress.
Hi Kyle -

My name is Steve.

I've tried N-S, S-N, E-W and W-E. And I've even gone into diagonals!! It's just a very small patch that I can't reach, but it really shows and it's just plain annoying. At the moment I am going over the area with my Sensor Excell, but (not really being a collector) I don't really want to start using two razors if I can help it.

Perhaps the answer is for me to exchange the Vision entirely for an HD or a Progress (I've read that many Futur users have the same problem)??
Oddly, I understand exactly where you're coming from. Using two razors is the equivalent of non-verbally admitting that you can't master one of them well enough to shave (realistically it isn't this dramatic, but that's how it makes me feel).

Changing razors altogether is a decision only you can make. I can, however, recommend both the HD and Progress as excellent razors/shavers.
Welcome to B&B. Nothing wrong with using a Bic disposable for those hard to reach areas. Anyway that's what I would do. The Vision has a large head that makes it hard to reach this area. The Futur has the same problem.
Hello Steve & welcome to B&B... :badger:

I use the Vision daily, with the exception of the HD occasionally. The method Kyle suggests is the method that I use. I go sideways under my nose, and at times, will lift the tip of my nose up to make a little more room. However, be careful using both of these methods as the Vision is rather unforgiving and I've sliced myself many a' time doing this and not paying particular attention to my blade. Also, what setting are you using your Vision on? If you have it dialed down a bit (where there's just a small gap between the safety bar & blade) it will be harder to mow down those hard to reach places as it will require a more aggressive blade angle, and under the nose, it's hard to get a good angle. You may want to experiment with opening the Vision up for this area for more blade exposure, again, being careful.

Hope this helps you
It's hard for me to comment as I don't own a vision. But seeing as how Andrew said that the Futur has the same problem and I do own a Futur, here is how I get under my nose. For information, I generally shave with the Futur wide-open ( a setting of 6). Over time you will begin to "know your razor". You will get a feeling for where the safety bar is and where the blade is. Once I was able to figure this out, I just push the safety bar up into my nose nostril (be careful the first few times you do this). Once I can see that the nose is back and out of the way, I slowly drop the angle of the razor to put the blade at the optimum angle and begin shaving in a N-S direction. On my S-N direction, I bring the razor up as high as I can go without doing any damage. Be forewarned, that I have cut my nose when I was not paying attention and a cut in the corner of your nose hurts for days.

Just relax, stick with it, learn your razor, and everything will begin to fall into place. But most importantly, learn to trust you hands with your razor. Your razor will only do what your hands allow it to do. Keep us posted.
Thanks for all the swift replies - I'll give it all a go.

Justso - I have got it dialled right down. I have REALLY sensitive skin (hence my prior razor being an Excell), so anything higher than the two lowest settings normally leaves me with a red-raw neck. But I guess that's something I'll get over with time.

EDIT - I think part (or most) of the reason might be that I'm still using the Vision with kid gloves, having heeded the "NO pressure" advice from the very first shave. I've had a few nicks here and there, but nothing I wouldn't have got with any other razor. Perhaps it's time to start getting a bit more confident!!

Kyle - thanks for the heads up. I'll stick with the Vision for a bit longer and see how it goes.

Well, the red raw neck is all technique, which we can help here! :biggrin: I suffered through that for a while, until I realized what I was doing wrong.

I don't mean to discourage you by any matter of means, but the Vision has quite a learning curve and is usually discouraged for beginners because of how sensitive it is and can really slice ya' up if you aren't careful. I started out with the vision dialed back for the same reason you have it, but then I was advised by Joel to at least give it a try wide open for a few days. Since then I never looked back and I have absolutely zero irritation.

The red rawness on the neck is a few things, or all of them. Prep work is where the magic happens. First, how's your prep work? You getting your face as hot as you can stand? Have you tried hot wraps around the face? Do you shave when you come out of the shower or straight after waking up? The reason why I ask all these questions is because it is vitally important to an irritation-free shave to get your face prepped properly before introducing a sharp instrument to it. Make sure your face is hot & supple and your facial hair is as saturated as it can be.

There's more to this thread, but let's start there..I'll reply more after you respond to this..Don't wanna get to drawn out here. :wink:
Well, my wet-shaving is actually fairly advanced. I'll start from the beginning to illustrate - I did start with an electric razor (given to me as a present on my 16th birthday) but after a couple of months of dry skin and ingrowing hair, moved over to a wet-shave with a Wilko sword. At 18 (I'm 27 now, by the way) I got my first brush and started using creams and prep oils and my current prep (see below) is still pretty much how it's been since, aside from the change to an Excell (I decided one day that the Wilko "guards" were actually encouraging ingrowing hair) and more recently the Vision.

So, my current "schedule" is either a shave after a shower or, sometimes, before I go to bed (either way, I wash my face first). I don't bother with towels, but I do slap on heaps of hot water and follow up with a prep oil (currently using L'Occittane Cade oil - lovely stuff) and then lather up with the brush and whatever cream I'm using at the time (currently Body Shop), or with my hands (I've got some organic lavender cream that won't work with a brush, but it feels lovely to shave with). Then shave, rinse with hot, another pass if needed, rinse with hot again and then immediately rinse with cold - I find that with my skin, any nicks and bumps heal better and quicker with a hot sluice followed quickly by a cold one, rather than just a cold rinse straight after finishing the shave. Then pat dry, on with the moisturiser and then a splash of aftershave once the moisturiser has settled.

That's basically what my routine has been for the last near-decade.

I've only had a problem with redness with the Vision when opening it up more but, like I said, that's probably just me needing to train myself with it.....or perhaps I should try another blade - I've read that Merkur blades aren't the most forgiving, so perhaps I should try some Personnas or maybe even the ultra cheap (but, apparently, very soft) gilette blades available here in the UK. Otherwise, I get a really smooth shave with next to no irritation. Just a patch of growth under the nose!

EDIT - my brush, by the way, is a no brand badger. It just says "Silver Tip" on it (and it is genuine silver tip), with a varnished hardwood handle.
Having a Vision and a Futur I think I can speak with experience to the issue of shaving on the uppler lip, particularly around the nostrils, etc. While it is difficult to do, it can be done effectively. The Futur is significanltly easier to use in this area than the Vision, as the head of the Futur is much lower (flatter) than the Vision's.
With all of that said, here is one of the techniques that works very well for me. Simply stated, I pull down on my upper lip while angling in with the Vision toward the nostril and then angling away from the filtrum. (Nobody said it was easy.) The Futur is a cakewalk by comparison using the same technique.
Good luck and enjoy.

Sounds like you have a decent routine. I would certainly follow the advice of Randy and trust your hands with the razor. Following the advice of others, stretching your skin around the lower jaws really helps too to avoid that redness. With time & technique, it will disappear.

Also, I use the Personnas regularly and they are very decent blades for the money. To me, they're more comfy than the Merkurs, but then again, that's my opinion and I'm sure someone will disagree.

Good luck.
Ron - thanks, I'll give that a blast. Incidentally, which of the two (Futur, Vision) do you prefer? Iwas umming and ahhing over them for ages and finally decided on the Vision after most of the reviews mentioned a better weight balance.

Justso - at the moment I am just using the Merkur blades that came with it, but after a bit of research it sounds like I might be better off with Personna or Darby blades.

Thanks again all - I'll persist and hope to scale this mountain!!
Any Gentlemen out there who have a nose and are looking to purchase a new DE, learn from these replies and skip the Futur & Vision as they're fundamentally flawed designs. Instead purchase the HD and save yourself some dollars as well.

For efficacy, the Futur is my choice. Despite some design warts (Flip off cap? Gag me with a spoon!), it is a GREAT razor, especially if you have a heavy or especially tough beard. I like the ABSOLUTE indexing for adjustability too.. Far superior to the Progress. This is one great shaving machine.
For nifty, the Vision 2000. It is really nifty looking. If field strips like a great old military rifle. BUT it is a SOB to get into tight spaces. Great shave if you can master the pressure-less pass. Some gents, in comparing it to other razors, claim that you have to use negative (unweight it) pressure because of its mass. I get great, long-lasting shaves with it and Feather blades, but it does require a good bit of technique, patience, and your undivided attention.
Now ask me what I have been using for the last month or so...
1. Edwin Jagger Gold Lined Chattsworth DE. (2Weeks)
2. Geo. F. Trumper chrome and gold Warwick handled DE. (2Weeks)
3. 1958 Gillette Adjustable (1Week)
Oh well.:001_rolle

As you can see, I suffer from RAD, bad!:blushing:

I'm a Vision user, and totally understand your problem with the upper lip. I still have days where this area remains a problem, so know that you're not alone, and hang in there.

I have used the 2nd razor technique--usually a cheap disposable kept for just this use--but have lately had better luck with the technique mentioned above, of gently sliding the razor into the nostril, then pulling down the blade till it begins to meet the skin and gently--notice that word again!--shaving the area in question.

As I inspect this area with my fingers right now, I notice that I still missed a few stray hairs here, and will vow a better attempt tomorrow! I also have a Merkur HD on the way, and have experimented with a couple of Gillette adjustables and a Parker--but I always come back to the Vision. For me, its just a better, more solidly designed razor--albeit with a few flaws--and I feel more confident and comfortable shaving with it--sorry, yasuo!
mrob said:

I'm a Vision user,


As I inspect this area with my fingers right now, I notice that I still missed a few stray hairs here, and will vow a better attempt tomorrow! I also have a Merkur HD on the way, and have experimented with a couple of Gillette adjustables and a Parker--but I always come back to the Vision. For me, its just a better, more solidly designed razor--albeit with a few flaws--and I feel more confident and comfortable shaving with it--sorry, yasuo!
Why apologize? John's OPINION is no better than his expression of it, which in this case is rather below his normal pith and ken. The beauty of wet shaving is that it is a personal activity. Despite the continual questions trying to arrive at which components provide the universal best, each gent needs to test the waters and find what works for them.
It is easy to approach this from the utilitarian or as the hobbyist. Neither are right or wrong. The only universal truth is that there is no single answer to what is best, only what works best for you. The true beauty is finding the kit and routine that provide the look and feel you desire at a price you can afford.
cooncatbob said:
Or you could just grow a Mustache. LOL

...............there isn't a smilie in the world to respond to that with!!:lol:

Anyways, thanks again for all the tips. Ron, you're like a shaving Mr Miyagi!!

It just sounds like it's something I need to train myself to do with a totally different technique, but after the replies I'm fairly confident I'll be able to work it. Eventually!
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