Vie Long horse hair
- Thread starter Ramsay
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A little for the nicer Handles, the larger knots are a bit denser, I used to enjoy the Natural Brown 35/65 Horses, but after using a couple of the 50/50 Natural Whites, 24mm knots set at 48 & 45mm lofts, they went bye-bye. Spend the extra cash and get a Vie-Long Horse, 23mm knot, any Hair Ratio; 35/65 or 50/50, they won't disappoint you, search through some of the older V-L Threads before you buy.
I get mine from Gifts & Care, they'll customize your loft at no extra charge, put your requested loft in the comments box at checkout. If you see a handle you like that doesn't have the Hair Type you desire; Natural Brown, Banded or Natural White, you can send an e-mail request, and have an answer in ~36-48 hours unless it's the weekend.
I get mine from Gifts & Care, they'll customize your loft at no extra charge, put your requested loft in the comments box at checkout. If you see a handle you like that doesn't have the Hair Type you desire; Natural Brown, Banded or Natural White, you can send an e-mail request, and have an answer in ~36-48 hours unless it's the weekend.
Reading this gave me the nudge to place an order to G&C for the Vie-Long 13061B: http://www.giftsandcare.com/en/hors...rocha-de-afeitar-caballo-vie-long-13061b.html
I've been in love with the handle on this brush ever since I began traditional wetshaving. I don't know how long they've offered it with the natural white 50/50 hair, but I took your advice Tom and ordered a custom loft of 48mm instead of the standard loft of 53mm. This will be my first horse hair brush. I like the natural white look and as I mentioned, I love this handle.
Ben
Congrats, Ben-- I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how good your horse hair brush performs. And you're right, that's a great looking handle! Enjoy!
Does anyone have an opinion about what is scritchier?.... the 35/65 or the 50/50? Also, the 13061B is a newer version of the 13061, with a natural white hair knot.... any significant differences between the natural white hair versus the brown?
Thanks,
Ben
Thanks,
Ben
In my opinion the more tail the more scritch. Natural white vs brown is just a matter of colour preference. Can't tell any other difference in the Vie-Long horses I use. Considerations are mane/tail ratio, knot diameter, and loft. Everything else is cosmetic. I do find their model numbers frustrating as different sites list different specs for what is seemingly the same item. The Vie-Long company site doesn't even list my four horse purchases made this year. Some of the gents are very particular and deal with vendors that will customize your ratio and loft. In the end it is very much YMMV but not as difficult as the badger world. A quick search on this site will reward you handsomely. Best of luck.
That was one of the first handles offered, I believe the Natural White was introduced in November or December of 2012. I own the the 12750B @52mm & 13066B @47mm, the color for the 13066B is closer to a Carmel with Reddish/Carmel tint on the top of the bulb handle & the neck just above the base. These have been the best performing & highest quality V-L Horses out of the box and continue to improve with use.
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The Natural Brown is 35/65, Mane/ Tail and the Natural White is 50/50 like the Banded version of the Horse Hair, not just a color preference between these two knots. The higher tail ratio will provide more scritch out of the box and stiffer backbone. The scritch will relax a bit after 20-25 lathers and becomes nominal after extended use, I lathered my first Natural Brown, set @ ~44/20mm, everyday for the first three months using a Spice Mortar Bowl and it became very soft with no loss of backbone.
Just lost another detailed response to a time out here so, the short version...
There is a lot of conflicting data on this very forum in regard to knot ratios. One long discussion with purported reference to Vie-Long and others close to the manufacturer even debates if published ratios are mane/tail or tail/mane. For my brushes the data available from the importer and retailers of the brush do not agree, yet they were all directly involved in the chain of events leading to my purchases. Other sites report yet more different data.
You can measure knots at a store or after purchase but you probably can't analyze the ratio. I have a white knot and a brown knot of the same size. Functionally, they are identical, or at least any difference is undetectable by me. I do have a brush with a longer loft that is claimed to be 25/75 mane/tail and I believe it based on the reported qualities of the hairs and my subjective experience of backbone and scritch.
We apparently agreed, more tail, more scritch. I just wouldn't be accepting a particular retailer or individuals word on any ratios, unless they do custom orders. Too much potential misinformation passed on in good faith. Probably doesn't matter for a first brush as one has no base of experience. When you want a second or different brush to get more or less scritch good luck on the ratios. My experience that way has been entirely unsatisfactory. Love horse brushes but the overall marketing is problematic. Just my experience and opinion valued at what you paid.
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/256487-Vie-Long-s-Horse-Hair-Mane-to-Tail-Ratio
For some light reading. Be patient till about response 19.
Best quote on horse hair brushes:
"I'm not sure that I have a high enough brush IQ to get one of these brushes. I'm just flat out confused about these little beauties."
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I'm glad I got the 13061B ordered when I did: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...se-Hair-Shaving-Brushes?p=5315702#post5315702
Ben
Ben
Thanks for pointing this out -- response 19 says that the ratios in the entire previous discussion had been reversed from what was intended. Mane is softer than tail. Outside of the barber brushes, you're looking at 35% mane and 65% tail, or a 50-50 ratio.
I have the "J.L. Petree" special edition from Bullgoose; it's 35/65, but seems to soften up nicely with use. I sort of wish it were 50-50, but I don't know for sure. (That is, I like the idea of the softer tips, but I don't know how much backbone I'd sacrifice, or if I'd want a shorter loft to get more). I like the brush a lot -- size and density and handle are all really to my liking; there's a tad more scritch than I wish, but as I said, that's softening over time. The defunking period was very brief.
I have a 35/65 and a 50/50 from Vie Long,the 36/65 is much "tougher" and i didn't like it
Beat all my Boars.
Thanks, that's what I am finding after reading about the Vie Long brushes in the "Brush Chronicles" and some other threads. I think I'm going to be happy with the 13061B 50/50 in a 48mm loft for face lathering either soaps or creams.
Ben
Best of luck
Post your impressions here my friend when you try it.
Post your impressions here my friend when you try it.
Prior to starting Brush Chronicles #11: Vie-Long; El Caballo Español (The Spanish horse), in November 2011, I had several e-mail exchanges with Juan, Gifts& Care Proprietor, who customizes V-L Horse Hairs. His B&M is ~3 Kilometers from the V-L Factory, where he visits on a regular basis and provided the Hair Ratios for each type Brush, including the Pro-Series, Barber Brushes 25/75 @, Mane/Tail. I specifically asked if the had a 65(Mane)/35(Tail) as he had erroneously listed for one particular Brush, he had verified with the V-L Factory, no they didn't offer that Hair Ratio, but his other information was accurate.
Since the Horse Hair knots are Hand-made, slight variances do happen but would not significantly alter performance. During the Knot construction, Guide Hairs (for lack of a better term), are included and used in setting the loft's height, the number of Guide Hairs seem to vary from knot to knot. These Hairs, which are more quill-like, are very stiff and pointy and contribute to the scritch of the Horse Knot, they never become softer or forgiving and I have clipped a few from some of the V-L brushes I've owned.
For those that may be interested Brush Chronicles #11: Vie-Long; El Caballo Español (The Spanish horse) http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...e-Long-El-Caballo-Español-(The-Spanish-horse)
The Brush Chronicles is a great read. Thanks the reference and all you contributed to that Tom. 
Ben
Ben
Thanks for the link to the brush chronicles; I didn't know those existed. I bought my 13061 on a whim and I love it. My most favourite brush. I wish the loft was a little shorter, but it works great for face lathering and I think i've gotten over the pricklyness phase of it. One thing I noticed was that when I look at it from the top (looking into the knot) It doesn't look as dense as the same brush in the brush chronicles. Is there something that you need to do to make it more dense?
I loose a hair or two every few shaves, but lately I've been loosing this hair that feels rubbery/silicone-y; not sure if its hair or some kind of string that they use to keep the hairs bundled?
I loose a hair or two every few shaves, but lately I've been loosing this hair that feels rubbery/silicone-y; not sure if its hair or some kind of string that they use to keep the hairs bundled?
I believe these are probably the "guide hairs" that Tom is referring to in post #16 above. He said that he has clipped some of those out himself.
Ben
The Brush Chronicles is a great read. Thanks the reference and all you contributed to that Tom.
Ben
I was truly scared when one of the Mods (I forgot who) had PMed me and asked to start that thread, I appreciated all the contributions from malocchio, TZee (who thought of the thread Title), and all others too numerous to mention. After my initial apprehension, I found it enjoyable and was surprised at the level of interest/ curiosity regarding Horse Hair Brushes, it was a humbling experience and a challenge, to say the least.
I'm guessing your brush has the factory set loft of ~57mm (Natural Brown, Banded, Nat. White?), my brushes were 54 & 47mm and had a 23mm knot, the slightly smaller knot & lower loft would bunch the hairs closer together and give it a denser appearance. The rubbery type hairs could be Guide Hairs, the ones I've clipped were very stiff, thicker, pointy/ prickly and ranged in color from White to Brown or Black.
I used the dimensions of my first V-L Horse as a guide to future Horse brush purchases, if you bowl & face lather, I'd suggest a loft no higher than 51mm and if you just face lather I'd go as low as 46-47mm. In either case I'd recommend the 23 or 24mm knot in Natural White (NW, 50/50), as I mentioned before the NW knots are fantastic out of the box and improve quicker than any of the Horses I've owned previously.
My 12750B is a great all-around; Cream/Soap, Face/Bowl lathering Brush and the 13066B is my Soap/Face lathering only brush, and have supplanted all my other Horses & Boars. I do have a couple of Muhle Synthetics (Black & Silver-Fibre) and two each of Best, Finest and Silver-Tip badgers to complete my rotation/Den... to answer your ?, one each for my 5 y/o son and myself, but I hope he doesn't want my Horses.
I don't count the two TSN Brushes (Finest & Silver-Tip) since they've been packed away after a couple of uses, I'm not sure they'll get anymore use.
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