Victorian urn-shaped restore, 12mm knot

[virtualkelly]

I have this British Victorian era urn shaped brush from H&A. I'm trying to do as little as possible restoration-wise. I'm not sure how much I should do.

The original badger knot at the base is 13mm and the whole dainty thing appears to be designed to look like an urn or vase of flowers. To retain this look, I would need to find a small 12mm or 13mm badger knot, which I haven't found. Going 14mm might hurt the look.

• Is it worth taking the risk?
• Is there a supplier of such small badger knots?

• Although the rim of the vase is still very strong, water coagulation has made a small 10mm crack over the years along the rim (see pic). I originally thought it might have been done on purpose to release water, but not sure. If I chose to restore it, what would be good to fill it that isn't unpredictable like a "wood filler"? Is there a good resin? I doubt whatever I use will be noticeable other than the wee daylight. Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[Big Jim]

It appears that you could easily open up the hole for a larger knot and you may need to.

Whipped Dog used to have a 16 mm Silvertip knot. They were poor sellers so he discontinued them. The Golden Nib has 18 mm knots in both Silvertip and Finest.

Baowen Chen at AliExpress shows that he can provide knots as small as 15 mm but the smallest he lists for sale is 18 mm (I have two on order). You may wish to contact him to see what he can do. He is usually very slow to respond so have much patience if you choose to get him involved. His stuff is hard to find on AliExpress. The last time I looked it showed up with a search on AliExpress for High Mountain Shaving Brush Knot. A single knot form him showed up on the first row. Click on it. Part way down the page you can see the many sizes he says he can provide. Back near the top, click on Visit Store and you can see all that he currently offers through AliExpress.

The slowness of his orders and responses makes it frustrating to deal with him, but most of the knots I have purchased from him are top notch. I have several of his High Mountains and one Super Silvertip, all of which are great. Another Super Silvertip I purchased for a friend was OK, but not as special. Another forum member referred to shopping from him was sort of like dealing with a Chinese Lee Sabiteni.

 

[BSAGuy]

Very cool handle. Hope you can find the right knot.

 

[hig789]

Can you post better pics of the handle? I have a honey horn on that's identical to it I believe. Mine is marked BB1 on the bottom. You might want to forgo restore as little as possible. If it's horn it it probably needs to be cleaned up and oiled before you try and use it.

Here's mine.

 

[virtualkelly]

^^Matt,

They do look similar and my son thinks mine is more than it seems. For that reason, I have already decided not to restore it as I had good luck with a water bath. I didn't lose as many hairs as I thought might happen and it's drying now. I simply had to wash it because it was crusty and full of soap and was unsanitary. I will post more pics.

As far as the BB1 maker's mark goes, try searching gold and silver makers, shaving kits and cosmetic kit makers during the Victorian and (after the turn of the century) art deco periods. These small brushes were often part of kits. Also the "1" could be a size or a letter "I". So check BBI and BB.

 

[hig789]

Well even if you don't want to restore it, I'd at least give it a good soaking in neatsfoot oil. If it has cracked I'd say the horn is really dried out. The oil will make it look something like mine. That's all I have done to it. It will loosen up any gunk on the outside of the handle though if you were looking to keep that.

 

[virtualkelly]

Matt,

Here's a better look after some work on the hair and some oil. Looks much better. I don't believe there is a crack. I think that the item is a two-piece and the slit is left for a drain because it looks made on purpose.

 

[hig789]

Matt,

Here's a better look after some work on the hair and some oil. Looks much better. I don't believe there is a crack. I think that the item is a two-piece and the slit is left for a drain because it looks made on purpose.

View attachment 545567
View attachment 545573

Wow. Yeah man that cleaned up nicely. My knot is trashed in mine. Possibly one day I'll redo it, but I wouldn't know what to do with a knot that small. Haha.

 

[virtualkelly]

TGN has a 15mm best badger that could be engineered down, removing the ring, etc could get me down to 12mm. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Big Jim]

I would not try to trim a knot base disc down to make it smaller. It may compromise the knot.

You would have a better chance in enlarging the hole. Measure it carefully. You may have enough room for a 15 mm knot.

 

[virtualkelly]

I would not try to trim a knot base disc down to make it smaller. It may compromise the knot.

You would have a better chance in enlarging the hole. Measure it carefully. You may have enough room for a 15 mm knot.

I'm considering taking that risk of ruining the knot. As a knot is less expensive than the antique handle.

 

[strop]

You might be able to get a custom knot from Shavemac. Worth a try rather than damaging that beautiful handle.

 

[virtualkelly]

You might be able to get a custom knot from Shavemac. Worth a try rather than damaging that beautiful handle.

Realize, this is thinking out loud...

Most of the knots I see from old brushes don't have a band, or even a string from tying the knot. They are simply embedded in adhesive, albeit rubber, or other adhesive. The maker trusts the glue. If that's the case, I don't see why I couldn't invest in a 15mm best knot and tinker with cutting off the band and see what happens. A glue ball knot still remains. I wouldn't expect it to simply unravel.

Losing the band, and then a few hairs attached to it around the knot should eliminate about 1.5 to 2mm in my estimation. I could then reinforce the knot with more glue if needed, install it, and certainly with the finished gluing bed it should be sound.

This all sounds good, unless there is a glue bulb above the knot. Then, it would not be possible because the knot would be compromised aesthetically if trimming were done.

 

[Big Jim]

I'm considering taking that risk of ruining the knot. As a knot is less expensive than the antique handle.

May I suggest that you order the knot. Once you have the knot, remove the old one before you do anything else, and then evaluate if you would be better off trying to trim the knot, enlarging the hole, or even a little of both to get a satisfactory fit. One way or another, I'm sure you can make something work and end up with a great little brush.

Keep us posted.

 

[virtualkelly]

May I suggest that you order the knot. Once you have the knot, remove the old one before you do anything else, and then evaluate if you would be better off trying to trim the knot, enlarging the hole, or even a little of both to get a satisfactory fit. One way or another, I'm sure you can make something work and end up with a great little brush.

Keep us posted.

That would probably be the most prudent thing to do. I'm going back and forth on whether to restore it at all. As I can always find another home for a 15mm knot if I abort the restore. This handle is far more valuable than the replacement knot so I don't want to drill at all; I can leave the current knot in it; it's visually okay and appealing; but I don't think it's stable enough to use as is, which is the benchmark of a good restore, IMHO. That's why I'm going back and forth on it. Surely I can find a 12mm knot somewhere so I can leave the handle completely untouched.

 

[virtualkelly]

You might be able to get a custom knot from Shavemac. Worth a try rather than damaging that beautiful handle.

Thanks for the idea. I've sent them an email asking.

 

[hig789]

Thanks for the idea. I've sent them an email asking.

Please post the response from them. I might go this route too if it works out.

 

[virtualkelly]

Please post the response from them. I might go this route too if it works out.

I will. I also inquired of a few other places. You never know, they might have a couple lying around.

 

[ouch]

An urn shape? Great- now I can spend eternity in my brush.

 

[virtualkelly]

An urn shape? Great- now I can spend eternity in my brush.

That made me laugh out loud.