Cool straight razor patch.
Using my Norton kit.
- Thread starter George Kelley
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Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
The three stone method reportedly is much better than two stones. It will, IMHO make them smooth but not perfectly flat overall. For knives this is quite adequate. I still think a sheet of good quality wet/dry carefully glued to a known flat surface is going to yield superior results, particularly in terms of flatness. JMHO and YMMV. I HAVE used a Nani 8K to smooth a freshly lapped 12k, so it delivers optimum performance right out the gate. I honestly think just honing a SS chefs knife does a better job of smoothing the surface. I do not use the 3 stone method so I will not claim to be an expert on that method. I use what I know cannot be beat, which is sandpaper on a known flat plate. I have no reason to try something else that can only match it at the very best, and I don't believe it can do better than closely approach that level. Try it yourself and you be the judge.
Slash, my only difficulty with the sandpaper on flat surface was the glue. It was a pain to remove all bits of glue when changing sheets.
It would be great if just water would hold it, but I doubt it would. Have you found an easy way to stick and unstick the paper?
It would be great if just water would hold it, but I doubt it would. Have you found an easy way to stick and unstick the paper?
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
3M spray adhesive. Acetone to remove residue.
3 stone works great, they can come out flat there’s just some trial and error and they don’t always wear down at the rate you’d expect relative to each other.
Spinning the abrading stone or plate around and changing directions as you lap a stone flat (like almost EVERYONE does) is a hold over from old 3 stone techniques that we’ve all acquired and imitated from wherever we learned to lap stones.
It’s like in the pilot world, everyone has a “radio voice” they use where they drop an octave and slow down and naturally pick up a subtle drawl... all pilots do it because all our instructors do it. All our instructors do it because theirs did it.. and when you go back far enough you discover we’re all imitating Chuck Yeager, supreme hero of all pilots ever.
Spinning the abrading stone or plate around and changing directions as you lap a stone flat (like almost EVERYONE does) is a hold over from old 3 stone techniques that we’ve all acquired and imitated from wherever we learned to lap stones.
It’s like in the pilot world, everyone has a “radio voice” they use where they drop an octave and slow down and naturally pick up a subtle drawl... all pilots do it because all our instructors do it. All our instructors do it because theirs did it.. and when you go back far enough you discover we’re all imitating Chuck Yeager, supreme hero of all pilots ever.
Yeah, when lapping hones/stones against each other, they will certainly abrade each other. Which one gives way more rapidly has to do with more than coarseness though. Binder hardness, filler vs. grit ratio and other factors also come into play, so it can sometimes be a little unpredictable which will wear away faster. For this reason I don't recommend the method for dissimilar hones or stones. A diamond plate or wet/dry on a flat backer is my recommendation for lapping.
As far as achieving flatness, a 3-plate method will get darn near perfectly flat with proper execution - but that involves using a cutting medium (loose grit SiC for instance) between the surfaces rather than just rubbing only the hones/stones themselves together.
Last but not least, especially with finer hones or stones you will in effect be "glazing" the honing surfaces, which may or may not be desirable depending on the specific hone or stone in question.
As far as achieving flatness, a 3-plate method will get darn near perfectly flat with proper execution - but that involves using a cutting medium (loose grit SiC for instance) between the surfaces rather than just rubbing only the hones/stones themselves together.
Last but not least, especially with finer hones or stones you will in effect be "glazing" the honing surfaces, which may or may not be desirable depending on the specific hone or stone in question.
Interesting. One of the main reasons that I rub my stones together is to break the glaze. I've always felt that slurry on synthetics (and naturals) was a glaze preventer/breaker. Since I don't hone with a slurry on the higher grit synthetics I do think of bringing up a little slurry while maintaining the stone as desirable.
As an aside; It seems like Naniwa ss stones develop a glaze from sitting unused.
I agree, interesting stuff.
I've tried little rubbing stones, but stopped that because it took too much care to get even coverage. I realized that my lapping medium should be at least as big as the stone, and bigger would be better.
Then I got curious about stone on stone. And you gents have answered all of this very well. I'll stay with my diamond plate, but I see how stone on stone can be done well. And from now on if I buy a synth, I'll buy singles, not doubles. It's an advantage to be able to clean up the surfaces with a quick rubbing of stone on stone. Maybe not a long term solution to flatness, but it would flatten and freshen.
I see now that in the days before diamond plate and before w/d, most guys would take their cutlery and razors to a pro. I'll bet those pros would have a finishing stone that used slurry, and the good ones would have two other finishing stones exactly the same as the main one, just to use in a three stone lapping system.
For the rough sharpening work, here's a link to the italian bicycle guy:
I've tried little rubbing stones, but stopped that because it took too much care to get even coverage. I realized that my lapping medium should be at least as big as the stone, and bigger would be better.
Then I got curious about stone on stone. And you gents have answered all of this very well. I'll stay with my diamond plate, but I see how stone on stone can be done well. And from now on if I buy a synth, I'll buy singles, not doubles. It's an advantage to be able to clean up the surfaces with a quick rubbing of stone on stone. Maybe not a long term solution to flatness, but it would flatten and freshen.
I see now that in the days before diamond plate and before w/d, most guys would take their cutlery and razors to a pro. I'll bet those pros would have a finishing stone that used slurry, and the good ones would have two other finishing stones exactly the same as the main one, just to use in a three stone lapping system.
For the rough sharpening work, here's a link to the italian bicycle guy:
Some will glaze if they're rubbed with too fine a hone or stone but will be fine with a coarser one. Or natural vs. synth. I often use a JNat for instance to deglaze my SG20k, works great and doesn't leave too coarse a surface.
Yeah, I got thinking more about this after posting.
I have a piece of hornfells that I often condition with a Washita. When I do this it breaks the glaze on the hornfells, but it does glaze the Washita. The worst case that I have seen was flattening a coarse Crystolon with dull 50 grit sand paper. It took a while to get that one cutting again. Next time I need to flatten the Crystolon I will use loose SiC. These being all knife and tool stones I wasn't thinking about them when I posted.
All of my Naniwas deglaze with any other Naniwa or the 600 grit rub stone that is often sent with them. I can see why a diamond plate would always deglaze.
Setting the bevel on an old blade in need to tough love can take hours. But once you have one, the rest is a breathe. If you need to spend more than 15 min post bevel setting, it typically is a sign that the bevel was not completely there.15min!
