Using a Wedge - Any Different from a Hollow?

[Shangas]

So, I've owned this antique wedge razor, with ivory scales, for the past two years...

...so...I read somewhere (don't ask me where, I don't remember, this was years ago) - that wedge razors are more difficult to sharpen, and more difficult to shave with, as opposed to the more conventional hollow-grind razor, which is more familiar to us today.

Is this true, or not? Or am I just an idiot?? I've been trying to sharpen this for a while now, and I've been trying to shave with it for the past 2-3 days.

It does shave, and I haven't killed myself yet, but the shaves have been inconsistent. Either it's not sharp enough, or I'm not doing things properly - which seems inconceivable to me since I've been using a straight successfully for 10 years, and I've always done my own sharpening.

So - enlighten me. Is using or maintaining a wedge more difficult than a conventional hollow razor? Or not? Is there something I'm missing here?

Oh, and if anybody's wondering, a friend of mine dated the razor to about 1905. He looked up the manufacturer.

 

[Ice-Man]

Right, you need to tape the spine possible 2 layers, but try just the one layer to start with and see how that goes. I don't find them any harder but you might find that touch harder to shave with, as it looks to be around the 3/8th mark possibly a 4/8. But a wedge is less forgiving as they bite more than a hollow grind in my hands that is, I hope this helps a little but I'm sure others will chime in on the matter....

 

[Shangas]

Never had to tape the spines of my razors before. Wuzzit do?

 

[Njguy1977]

First off, tape concentrates the geometry to the razors cutting edge correctly so that your able to get the correct blade apex on WEDGE blades. Second, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your blade is way beyond its usefulness and will never get the correct apex of the edge no matter how much tape you use. I would save the scales....in all honestly your blade should be at least twice as wide from what you have in order to hone it properly.

Here is a picture to show you what I'm talking about.

The first picture is a regular hollow ground razor showing the 2 points of contact on a sharpening stone to sharpen the apex.

The second picture is showing the second picture is showing a full wedge with no tape and showing the full contact area and not really sharpening the apex.

The third is showing a full wedge with tape which increases the angle so there is 2 points of contact like the full hollow and allows the sharpening to be concentrated at the apex like it should.

Larry

 

[Gamma]

That one has a frown, and appears to be under 4/8. I'm guessing the beven angle, without tape, could possible be quite stout. Honing out that dip at the heel may reduce the width even more. Adding tape will exacerbate the issue.
So, at best, proceed with caution. I might consider learning how to hone wedges on a different blade though.

I do not find wedges to be, inherently, harder to hone. IMO, they get that rap because so many of them are so very old and have been in bad storage for a very long time. The steel is often very rusted and heavily laced with micropitting. I can take a while to cut through rotten steel, but once that's done they hone like anything else. The blade has to pass over the same length of stone as a hollow, for the same amount of times. And a slightly wider bevel (common with wedges) does not make the job harder.
But if the blade was sitting in a damp place for 100+ years, that first hurdle can be a bear.
Yours looks ok though, so I wouldn't be too concerned about that.
But I would expect that you'll need to establish brand new geometry and that might require extra effort.

 

[stone and strop]

I'll bet that blade used be a WHOLE lot bigger than it is now judging by the shank size, remaining shape at the toe and the scales in relation to what's left.
Next to no spine wear, Ill bet that angle is in the Axe category.
It would be better served as a letter opener or something else IMO, sorry.
Wedges are not necessarily more difficult if you are well versed in honing but hollows are pretty straight forward in contrast.

 

[Shangas]

Well, I guess I tried. Looks like it'll be a display-piece then.

 

[Legion]

Looking at the lack of hone wear, the skinniness of the blade, and the location of the thumb notch, I would say that that razor has either had a huge chip removed, or it has been freehand honed to oblivion.

IMO the geometry of that razor would be all over the shop. If it were mine I would carefully remove the scales and use them on a blade that is in better shape.

 

[Shangas]

I have never tried refurbishing a razor. Perhaps I should sell it...

 

[Legion]

I have never tried refurbishing a razor. Perhaps I should sell it...

If you are not going to use it you could. And ivory scales are not so common in Australia, so someone would probably buy it, but the value is all in the scales, so don't expect it to go for too much.

 

[Slash McCoy]

A hollowground razor is IMHO simpler to hone. A beginner should consider doing a few hollowgrounds before trying a wedge, and doing the wedge under the guidance of someone experienced with wedges. I wouldn't say that they are "difficult". They are just not as straightforward as wedges.

Yours, I would have to agree with everyone else, is pretty wack. The steel is still steel and could still shave with the right edge on it. However, getting the bevel angle down to something reasonable would literally be a total regrind of the razor, and for what... a very small wedge blade. If this is your first and only straight razor, it would be useful for practicing stropping and shaving. Glass the edge so it can't easily cut you or your strop, and have at it.

If you do decide to try to make this ready to shave with, remember that the primary bevel angle of a wedge should be less than that of a hollowground. Shoot for about 14 degrees included. Maybe 13deg. Included means the angle between the two bevel surfaces, not one of them and the center plane of the razor. To find the bevel angle of a razor that has a full bevel established, take two measurements. The first we will call O, for Opposite. Find this by measuring the thickness of the spine. In truth, you are finding the thickness at the top of the spine's bevel surface. We consider a razor to be properly positioned when the edge is down, the spine is up, and the "show side" is facing you. The tang of the razor points to the right. When the razor has a bevel properly set, this measurement will be the thickness at the top of the spine wear strip. The point of most distant contact from the edge. Naturally this will generally also be the thickest part of the blade. Now divide that by 2. You now have the length of the Opposite side of a right triangle. From the same spot on the spine, measure to the edge of the razor. That will be H. O/H=S, or the Sine of the acute angle of this right triangle. So Inv Sin or whatever keystrokes work on your calculator to find that angle, and double it. There is your bevel angle.

Once you have a primary bevel set, and this will take a while, you can apply a compound, secondary bevel. You will not have to reset that primary bevel for quite a long time. The secondary bevel is made by applying a strip of electrical tape to the spine. It is important that you center the spine perfectly in the tape, so that it extends down the same amount on both sides. The tape elevates the spine so that a more obtuse microbevel can be applied. This only requires a few laps on the finisher. Less is more. The more wear you put on the edge, the wider the secondary bevel surface gets, the longer it takes to hone and the sooner you must set the primary bevel again. The resulting compound bevel gives you the shoulder relief of the acute primary bevel and the robustness of the more obtuse secondary, together, and it is just easier than simply honing the razor flat through a progression to the finish. MUCH easier.

 

[Shangas]

This is NOT my first straight. I've owned many over the years. But this is my first wedge. I have very few issues (if any) sharpening hollow razors, but I've never tried honing a wedge before.

 

[Aggelos]

To answer the initial question : most of wedges are used the same way you would use a hollow.
The exception being big wedges, like 7/8+ which are handled a bit differently, you don't push, you let mother gravity do her job.

And I concur with what's been said, this blade has been heavily ground and was initially :
- Far larger
- Not a wedge, judging by the scales and provenance (Solingen wedges are rare)

 

[Rustynail]

I don't have an actual wedge, but one of my razors is old and worn away enough that it sounds and feels completely different than my hollow ground razors do. After being accustomed to the "singing" blades, it took some getting used to the sound and feel of a not so hollow blade. For me anyway. Even though it's cutting whiskers and shaving well, the feedback is completely different, and after training myself for two years on hollow blades, I feel like I'm kind of relearning to a degree with this quieter "dead feeling" razor. I suspect a wedge would be similar and have that solid, dead, not flexable, quiet shaving experience...I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just different.. Jmo

 

[Njguy1977]

Here is my oldest and hard to find in decent shape wedge Wade and Butcher from 1830-1837 as an example of blade width should be.

Larry