USB microscope is a game-changer.

[HippieDave]

Just read this whole thread, lots of info. I've been wanting a USB scope but I didn't find the info I'm looking for so I have to ask.
I want to get an image of the scratch marks on the cutting edge of the razor left by the finishing stone to compare them to see which stone has the finest grit. Can a low priced scope (around $50) do this?
I have 9 translucent hard arks I want to compare and about 7 slate floor and roof tiles I've been using as hones.
My skin is too sensitive to tell me how fine the edge "feels" let alone to allow me to get a full shave with a straight razor. I know I'm getting a good edge from the shaving I can do and I always get a HHT 4.5 or HHT 5 before I shave with one of my razors.
If anyone can get an image of a razors edge that shows a clear scratch pattern please post it and tell what type of scope you used.
Also I think this thread needs more photos. If you can take photos with your scopes then share them here, before and after, that kind of thing.
Thanks in advance and Good Shaving.

 

[sanch]

View attachment 1000180
Someone mentioned this inexpensive USB scope. I don't know anything about it except its reviews are pretty decent & the reviews of its stand are horrible.

It might be an excellent option combined with the $20 stand I've been using with my modified Plugable.

If someone buys and reviews it that would be great.

I have this scope. It works great when the app doesn't crash, my laptop is an antiquated Acer so I'm forced to use my one plus 6T phone. When I get time I will post images of my edges from the scope. I actually received the stand that has been previously posted (the silver aluminum one), for free from the same company (Jiusion) so all in all I think I got a good deal except for the app software being problematic at the moment but it still serves its purpose. Is it worth the money I'm sure some would say yes and others would say no so what do I think at this point for me? absolutely as the loop that I had was pretty much worthless. Once my optics improved so did my edges exponentially. and for information purposes I am honing on lapping film not on rocks.. this scope is one of those YMMV type of things.

 

[sanch]

And here's a bunch of pix of what I have how it worked and most recently honed razor using the scope and film...2 shaves on this edge.
First the scope

Scope on stand yes it's backwards easier to use

The razor Jade "Our 136"

The edge

And just for kicks some of the lettering on the tang.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Just read this whole thread, lots of info. I've been wanting a USB scope but I didn't find the info I'm looking for so I have to ask.
I want to get an image of the scratch marks on the cutting edge of the razor left by the finishing stone to compare them to see which stone has the finest grit. Can a low priced scope (around $50) do this?

Scratch pattern isn't a good way to judge finish. In fact, I'd say it misleads you more than it's accurate.


Basically.... slurry/ stone surfacing/ aggression / etc... affect the way a hone cuts... and once you move past maybe beveling level, 99% of the scratches you're seeing are old ones you haven't removed, anomalies from dust/grit on the hone, or something else that isn't telling you what you want to see. And when they ARE the actual scratches, that USUALLY means your "finisher" is cutting waaaaay too deep to give a comfy and close shave.

I look at these things from 200x up into 2000x and higher. You know what scratches tell me? Nothing. The state of the edge is far more informative. A good finisher? Doesn't even have a recognizable scratch pattern at 2000x. Synthetics fine enough to shave well get to the point where the wavelength of light itself becomes a problem... and naturals? Well, naturals at this level of refinement... the scratch pattern basically is meaningless. Past 2-3 microns or so, we're in a realm much different than before (where steel is basically wood we can sand smooth or clay we can rub smooth)... it's a highly complicated medium that doesn't peel or cut exactly as you'd expect, and the exact behavior of the razor where the steel and abrasives meet becomes complex and beautiful. I've got coticules that will leave edges that have "scratches" that take up MUCH of the FOV @ the mags I'm viewing... yet shave better than MANY hones that leave countless perfect columns of soldiers under the scope.

Honestly, when I look at the edge off a new hone I'm testing under the scope and it looks "efficient", I'd say... where there are perfect rows of scratches... I immediately start thinking I've got a sharpening hone, but not a "finishing" hone. A fine, even scratch pattern (that is still visible) is almost a guarantee it's a mediocre finish for shaving... at best. 25-3 micron range diamond hones make GORGEOUS scratch patterns... not my choice for a razor finisher though.

 

[alx gilmore]

For perspective, here is a photo taken with my microscope at 315x (21x optical x 15 digital) of a black hairs. The depth of field is an issue but at this magnification. This hair is about 75 microns as my field of view is about 220+/-. Having a sample of hair gives you a perspective on what level of keenness is required to cleave it. Ideally the razors edge will be keen enough to catch between the hairs cuticles and if it can the shave is effortless.

This edge below is likely to do that if both sides A & B meet at a perfect apex.

This edge below might also cleave the hair effortlessly, but the shave will be marginally comfortable.

At 20x with a hand loope the face of the bevel will look hazy, while the edge of the edge of the bevel can hardly be seen. At about 75x there will be some detail seen at the edge of the edge. The difference between the face of the bevel and the edge of the bevel is the result of stropping about 40x on linen and 40x on leather. No lifting of the bevel on the stone, just stropping

Looking at only the edge of the edge, the degree of refinement to the edge in the two photos are about equal, and each will shave about equally well.

This next photo shows skin cells on the razor left over from palm stropping as under the same lighting conditions.
You can see the effects of palm stropping is similar to leather stropping at the edge. Stropping effects the edge greater depending upon the flex in the strop or the cushioning effect of your palm.

Photo shows the effect of one layer of Kapton tape on the spine as the last step in honing, not stropping but honing with edge leading strokes.

Below is a photo of a Microscope Calibration Slide bought on E-bay for $8 new. Between each line, from the forward edge of one line to the rear edge of the next line is 100 microns, the width of my field of view is about 220microns. That is another skin cell laying there. Skin cells are in the 5 to 20 microns in thickness if I am not mistaken. Please correct me if I am wrong on that.

This is what a Shapton 2k bevel set scratch pattern looks like at 315x. The fact that the scratches bleed off the edge of the edge is proof they reach the edge, a prerequisite of the bevel setting stage. Steel strong enough to hold an edge during shaving is found about 25 microns into the edge from the tips of the rough steel. This is a photo of a false edge seen at 315x.

Alx

 

[David]

Nice post, Alex. Great pics.

 

[eKretz]

Alex, what process was the "effortless" edge produced by? That doesn't look like a slurried JNAT edge straight from a stone.

 

[alx gilmore]

Alex, what process was the "effortless" edge produced by? That doesn't look like a slurried JNAT edge straight from a stone.

Eric

That bright "effortless" edge is from a Naniwa 10k.

Alx

 

[HippieDave]

Thank you Slice and Alex. Shaving is the only real way to tell how good an edge is so I'll just have to try and improve my shaving skills.
I have found that dry shaving body hair (arms, legs, ect.) can, sometimes, show if I have some improvement to an edge but the face is the final test.
The photos are great. They make me want a digital scope even more and it looks like a fairly good one can be had for $35 or less.

 

[eKretz]

Eric

That bright "effortless" edge is from a Naniwa 10k.

Alx

Ah, thanks. I was wondering if you'd been doing some more experimentation with the water only JNat passes for a minute there.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Thank you Slice and Alex. Shaving is the only real way to tell how good an edge is so I'll just have to try and improve my shaving skills.
I have found that dry shaving body hair (arms, legs, ect.) can, sometimes, show if I have some improvement to an edge but the face is the final test.
The photos are great. They make me want a digital scope even more and it looks like a fairly good one can be had for $35 or less.

"...how good an edge is for shaving" Yes. Lots of easier tests for how good an edge is at other tasks... though that's rarely helpful for us.