ultra fine welsh slate 15K

[Matt O]

Im not saying your expectations should be higher really, but that slurry did you a disservice. My experience is these slates shouldn’t be slurried at all for razors. And I can’t imagine the best edge off one of these really equalling a proper thuri like Escher.

Oh yes…I realize this…I used the slurry to essentially reset the finished edge to this stone, slowly diluted it down as I honed, and then I spent a considerable time on just water. I think it would have provided a suitable shave based off of how it looked under the loupe, and the resultant HHT. However, I don’t really want a “suitable shave,” I want a beautiful and immaculate shave…every time.

So, I just did the exact same process to reset the final edge again to an old Escher that I have in the Barbers Gem dimensions with a green Thuringian rub stone. The final bevel near the edge looked much much more clean/refined under the loupe, and the HHT met with less resistance…felt smoother. I even picked another blue hair off of the brush in an effort to make the HHT as consistent as I could. I guess that is the benefits of having a 13 year old with her own strong personality!

If anyone wants my “15k” stone with the matching rub stone, drop me a line and I will send it to you for the cost of shipping when I get the chance next week.

Vr

Matt

 

[Matt O]

My stone is spoken for, and will be shipped next week.

Vr

Matt

 

[ables]

My stone is spoken for, and will be shipped next week.

Vr

Matt

Thanks! Im curious how it compares to my other slates. My old yellowlake oilstone is one of my favorite finisher and ive heard it is similar.

 

[SilverGeezer]

I got one of these Welsh 15K slates last week, and I am getting some really nice edges with it. I have other slates, it's as good as any, and faster than most.

 

[ables]

My stone is spoken for, and will be shipped next week.

Vr

Matt

Thanks to Matt Ive now shaved with this Welsh 15k stone. I took a freshly synth honed razor that shaved well to it. A thick old Wade and Butcher that I had the pleasant surprise of taking out of a mismatched box a while back.

This is a really "sticky stone" that sucks the razor onto it. Needed running water and then some dawn to keep things moving. It slowly was making the fat bevel pure mirror with a few rouge scratches. I worked the stone for quite awhile for fun and probably over did it because the razor is now just too sharp. Most blood Ive seen for a while, ~5 places. Could barely do a second pass. Felt very similar to shaving off my shapton 12k and the 10k naniwa edge was a way better shave for sure. Now this is a dinosaur of a razor, so ill have to repeat with a more standard one next and not overdo it. But this is probably the sharpest slate edge ive ever made and Id easily put it on par with the Shapton 12k. With a little more experimention ill probably figure it out and tone down the harshness, maybe lots of stropping? It is an interesting stone different from my other slate type hones for sure.

 

[SilverGeezer]

I use the "Dr. Matt" technique. Light laps until it sticks under running water, light strop on linnen, then back to the stone for a few more licks until it sticks again. It's a magical stone.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

I am always curious about “too sharp” “over-honing”. Look at your edge with some good magnification 60-100. The toe and the heel are not honed, and the heel is crumbling and slightly frowning, about one-third of the blade, likely causing your uncomfortable shave.

You must hone the whole edge. A rolling X stroke will get it honed, I doubt most slates are near 12-15k, though some can make decent shaving edges in the right hands.

Stiction can indicate a flat bevel, you can have a flat bevel without the flat bevels meeting.

First, fully set the bevel, and calibrate a foolproof fully bevel set test, for the whole bevel. A magnified looking straight down on the edge is the quickest, most simple and 100% accurate, tomato also works but must be calibrated (test the whole edge and know what a sharp and not sharp edge feels like).

Looks like you have the stones, set the bevel on synthetics and finish on the slate, if that is the edge you want.

 

[ables]

I am always curious about “too sharp” “over-honing”. Look at your edge with some good magnification 60-100. The toe and the heel are not honed, and the heel is crumbling and slightly frowning, about one-third of the blade, likely causing your uncomfortable shave.

You must hone the whole edge. A rolling X stroke will get it honed, I doubt most slates are near 12-15k, though some can make decent shaving edges in the right hands.

Stiction can indicate a flat bevel, you can have a flat bevel without the flat bevels meeting.

First, fully set the bevel, and calibrate a foolproof fully bevel set test, for the whole bevel. A magnified looking straight down on the edge is the quickest, most simple and 100% accurate, tomato also works but must be calibrated (test the whole edge and know what a sharp and not sharp edge feels like).

Looks like you have the stones, set the bevel on synthetics and finish on the slate, if that is the edge you want.

View attachment 1355879View attachment 1355880

Good photo analysis, Im impressed .This old razor does have some toe/heel issues I was reluctant to fully hone out but improved significantly atleast I believe. I did use compensation-focused-rolling strokes on them but certainly could have worked it further. I have a couple similiar problematic razors and while it sounds ridiculous say, I have learned to "shave around" or avoid using those parts. My normal shaving method actually barely uses the toe or heel. A bad habit for sure but I actually shaved very comfortably with this same razor before the slate. The areas of discomfort were purely from mid chin/neck with mid razor and not from using heel/toe regions. Sadly while drying the razor I noticed the horn scale inside is starting to split and im going to put this razor back into the to be fixed pile.

Ill pick a better test razor out to do a proper evaluation of the stone next as it was promising.

Im not sure how to cure your curiosity regarding over-honing or too sharp, to be honest I equate the feeling to rashy patches from skin being exfoliated too deep that burn. Lack of skin sparing feel with absolutely no hair cutting resistance maybe? Hard to find correct pressure? Stones like thuringian or coticules never seem to do this for me. While CrOx, shapton12k and a sometimes Arkansas can.

 

[ables]

I use the "Dr. Matt" technique. Light laps until it sticks under running water, light strop on linnen, then back to the stone for a few more licks until it sticks again. It's a magical stone.

Ive now had good success using this stone and mostly this method. I used my trusty Genco Ive honed many times and really worked the stone for probably 150+ strokes. Trace slurry to start made a tiny amout of black swarf when wiping razor. Then water only until some stick and linen strop before some more under running water. I dont often strop and go back to the same stone but I could tell it slightly changed the honing feel which was interesting and ill have to try more of.

Two almost perfect shaves down. Very easy and safe. It isnt as pleasant to hone on as a buttery soft thuringian but my face cant really tell the difference. I also think the stone is "mellowing out" some, it even looks and feels a bit smoother.

 

[Empire straights]

Ive now had good success using this stone and mostly this method. I used my trusty Genco Ive honed many times and really worked the stone for probably 150+ strokes. Trace slurry to start made a tiny amout of black swarf when wiping razor. Then water only until some stick and linen strop before some more under running water. I dont often strop and go back to the same stone but I could tell it slightly changed the honing feel which was interesting and ill have to try more of.

Two almost perfect shaves down. Very easy and safe. It isnt as pleasant to hone on as a buttery soft thuringian but my face cant really tell the difference. I also think the stone is "mellowing out" some, it even looks and feels a bit smoother.

I haven't put enough time into mine but have had luck the last couple times I've honed on them. I want to lap one side down a mm at a time until I like the feedback on a blade. I've noticed that slates can have very thin layers that are not the same amount/ distribution of grit and a very small amount of lapping can make a huge difference and turn a paperweight into a gem. I've also noticed this too some extent in one of my older coticules. Did you get it from aj on the popular auction site so many of us throw our money at constantly?

 

[ables]

I haven't put enough time into mine but have had luck the last couple times I've honed on them. I want to lap one side down a mm at a time until I like the feedback on a blade. I've noticed that slates can have very thin layers that are not the same amount/ distribution of grit and a very small amount of lapping can make a huge difference and turn a paperweight into a gem. I've also noticed this too some extent in one of my older coticules. Did you get it from aj on the popular auction site so many of us throw our money at constantly?

This came to me from Matt O but it's original origin was from that ever popular site vendor AJ I believe. Trying to get the best out of slate type hones can be a challenge and I believe you are right that each layer in a stone can be somewhat different based on how mother nature made it or how it was cut.

Besides abrasive particle size/distribution the resistance to break down plays a large part. The harder they are the longer the "teeth/ridges" from lapping seems to last which can make them aggressive. Then they can slow down to almost nothing making it tricky to use and evaluate. Just like soft to hard arkansas/jnat stones I think the similiar principle applies to slate honing.

I have from softest to hardest: 5 "Thuringian" type(I can order these on hardness), vermont green slate, this welsh "15k", a barber size hone that looks like a Special Stone to me and then my red box yellowlake oilstone as hardest. The razor feedback can go from buttery to raspy. Looking for any glint is a good indicator of hardness for my stones too, I guess metamorphic cycle progress. This 15k stone I would put in the mid to hard part of my spectrum.

 

[SilverGeezer]

I haven't put enough time into mine but have had luck the last couple times I've honed on them. I want to lap one side down a mm at a time until I like the feedback on a blade. I've noticed that slates can have very thin layers that are not the same amount/ distribution of grit and a very small amount of lapping can make a huge difference and turn a paperweight into a gem. I've also noticed this too some extent in one of my older coticules. Did you get it from aj on the popular auction site so many of us throw our money at constantly?

Mine came from AJ. He was out of them for a while then posted a new batch a few weeks ago. I ordered one just for kicks and was pleasantly suprised.

 

[Matt O]

This came to me from Matt O but it's original origin was from that ever popular site vendor AJ I believe. Trying to get the best out of slate type hones can be a challenge and I believe you are right that each layer in a stone can be somewhat different based on how mother nature made it or how it was cut.

Besides abrasive particle size/distribution the resistance to break down plays a large part. The harder they are the longer the "teeth/ridges" from lapping seems to last which can make them aggressive. Then they can slow down to almost nothing making it tricky to use and evaluate. Just like soft to hard arkansas/jnat stones I think the similiar principle applies to slate honing.

I have from softest to hardest: 5 "Thuringian" type(I can order these on hardness), vermont green slate, this welsh "15k", a barber size hone that looks like a Special Stone to me and then my red box yellowlake oilstone as hardest. The razor feedback can go from buttery to raspy. Looking for any glint is a good indicator of hardness for my stones too, I guess metamorphic cycle progress. This 15k stone I would put in the mid to hard part of my spectrum.

Yes…originally from AJ on eBay. I am glad that you are liking the edges off of it!

Vr

Matt