ultra fine welsh slate 15K

[Stonegrip]

Decided to re-iterate the discussion on welsh slates. I've read many posts where the purple slates were discussed, as well as the dragon's tongue, purchased from AJ, but I haven't seen anything in regards to the ultra-fine (allegedly 15K) dark slate. Here is a random link to it on ebay to make sure we are talking about the same thing: Ultra fine welsh slate

I know that Keith in one of his older videos touched based on that shortly by saying that he tried it and it didn't do any good, and that he got better results with AJ's purple slate, even though it has a coarser grit. But that was several years ago, and I believe there are more opinions among us on this matter by now.

I haven't tried one yet, though I've purchased it already, and while it's being delivered, decided to hear back from the ones who tried it, if any.

I totally understand that it is not as fine and fast as Jnats, and that I could get a way sharper edge with the right progression of synths, so my questions are more of the following:

• can you get a decent edge with this dark slate? If yes, what's the best use of it: water only, water and slurry, lather, oil etc.
• What type of grit it really is (give or take as per your feelings; say "between Shapton 12K and Naniwa 12K" or "finer that Naniwa 12K" or "around Shapton 8K" based on your feelings)?
• How does it work as a final polisher?
• Where does it stand compared to the similarly priced hones, like black ark, ILR etc.

Thanks a ton for your responses. Looking forward to reading them.

 

[LJS]

I’m not trying to play internet police on you or anything, but if I recall, your post may be deleted for linking to an active auction.

If you search, I thought you would find plenty on AJ slates and discussions around them. His slates are decent Welsch slate from contemporary mining. They are slowish but they are decent.

I see you are a new member. Welcome. Please read up on the forum rules to avoid any posts getting deleted or edited.

Good luck

 

[Stonegrip]

Thanks for your response, LJS.

I wish I could edit my post to delete the link, but I don't see any edit button.

 

[LJS]

You bet. Again, not trying to hassle you but just giving you heads up on that.

It disappears after a little time, but below your post there are three little dots. Click that and that is where the edit is hiding.

 

[LJS]

I don’t want to type a bunch and get deleted, but I personally don’t think those “grit ratings” are super accurate or relative. I think a naniwa 12K puts a much finer polish than AJs finest slate with razors. And a naniwa is about 20x faster.

Slurry on his stones is not something I recommend for razors unless you are doing early stage work, but none of that anywhere near finishing.

Now, I have some of his sets and use the big 8x3 bench ones for chisels gouges etc in the shop/lathe. I actually like the polish from his finest black slate on my steel chisels. I get a better polish on those than razors but I also use PRESSURE to a level highly unsuitable for razors. There are a lot of stones I find work so much better with pressure and are kind of crappy when just floating steel across.

That said, his stones can yield decent razor edges with proper technique and spending enough time to get there.

Good luck again!

 

[stone and strop]

I think the purple slate from A.J. is a great deal and mine is a damn fine hone.
A very comfortable shave in the 10-12k (mine)
Never tried the dark (15k supposedly) or the coarser stone. I think the majority find the purple to be a nice hone over the others.

 

[Ice-Man]

Just to add this is not a live auction but a buy it now price so it should be ok

I have both purple as well as the one listed to me I get a better finish on my arks, but his stones will put an edge on your straight but it will be a harsh edge.

the purple is a better edge but I still like my jnat's and arks, but if you have bought one play with them and see how you get on learn to use them.

 

[stone and strop]

his stones will put an edge on your straight but it will be a harsh edge.

Can't say as I agree with this.
My gives an edge similar to a Thury. in terms of keenness and smoothness.
The purple, at least mine, performs best with water alone after a very good 8k edge.
I would not slurry one of these and expect good results.

 

[SliceOfLife]

The 15k purple are the ones that are supposedly Lynn Mell's right? aka Purple Yellow Lakes? If so, assuming they are as good as the vintage ones, it is a great stone for roughly 5-10 percent of my razors (with thin oil) and a very mediocre one for the rest. Definitely not a stone I'd tell people to search out. I don't remember ever much liking the results on water or slurry. I'd certainly never rank them up there with Thuris or Jnats, personally. But again, you're paying ~15-30% of what a good Thuri or Jnat in a similar size would cost you, so it'd be crazy if they were.

 

[LJS]

The 15k purple are the ones that are supposedly Lynn Mell's right? aka Purple Yellow Lakes?

I think he calls his purple 12k and has a darker stone that he calls 15k. He also has a darker stone I think he called dragons tongue or something and he said it was 8 or 10k. Been a while, but he ranks the purple in the middle of his three stone offerings.

 

[stone and strop]

The 15k purple are the ones that are supposedly Lynn Mell's right? aka Purple Yellow Lakes? If so, assuming they are as good as the vintage ones, it is a great stone for roughly 5-10 percent of my razors (with thin oil) and a very mediocre one for the rest. Definitely not a stone I'd tell people to search out. I don't remember ever much liking the results on water or slurry. I'd certainly never rank them up there with Thuris or Jnats, personally. But again, you're paying ~15-30% of what a good Thuri or Jnat in a similar size would cost you, so it'd be crazy if they were.

I find quite a few razors work well on mine.
It is harder than a Thury as razors that don't like the Thury can still work on the Welsh slate.
For the money they are a screaming deal - if you get a good one.

 

[lightfoot]

I’ve had one for a long time. The sensation while honing is a bit inconsistent throughout the length of the stone. Best results I’ve had have been with oil. I never use slurry on it.

 

[Jakebullet]

I’ve got a 5x1.5 inch piece of the 12k slate which was recommended by a friend and was my first natural hone. It was great value at about £12. It taught me how to hone on smaller stones which has been such a useful skill since. I get an excellent shave from that under trickling water. I tried the 15k stone a few months back, I’ve only used it a few times under trickling water but the shaves were also excellent. My 15k stone takes a lot longer to stick to the razor than the 12k. I haven’t experimented much with it using slurry etc but this would be fun when I get the time. For the price as an intro to naturals I think they’re brilliant. Cheap and even a novice can get amazing smooth shaves from them.

 

[Jakebullet]

I haven’t shaved from my slates in ages so before yesterday mornings shave I honed a gold dollar on my little pics of 12k slate under running water and it shaved really well. You could spend hundreds on a stone and not get the edge much better than this. Lately I’ve been experimenting with a jnat and tomo nagura slurry, today I’m going to try using the nagura slurry but using my big 15k Welsh slate as the base stone. The slate is super hard so let’s see how it goes.

 

[luv2shave]

Not to derail the OPs ask on the Welsh slate, however for compare - how does the Inigo Jones "Dragons tounge" compare? Is it in the same league as the ones sold by AJ ?

"Honing Stones; A Speciality product made by Inigo Jones - Inigo Jones" Honing Stones; A Speciality product made by Inigo Jones - Inigo Jones - https://www.inigojones.co.uk/honing-stones-a-speciality-product-made-by-inigo-jones/

 

[Stonegrip]

Ok, mine has finally arrived.

My first impression was "Wow! What a size!". That is the largest hone I have, though I only have synths as this is my first natural stone.

The second thing I noticed was that the stone was not quite flat. And I spend a good hour to lap it (firstly with Norton, then with 400 Chinese synth lapping stone and finally polished it with the slurry stone made of the same slate, which came with the hone). Damn is it hard. I firstly spent 45 min to flatten it, and then 15 more min to polish it with the slurry stone to get rid of the scratches left by the Norton.

Today I gave it the first shot, and honed an absolutely dull Fila in a deplorable condition. I started of with 3K Chinese synth to set the spine (it was very uneven), then the bevel on the same 3K but with lighter pressure, then on 8K Chinese synth, and finally on the lapped dark slate under dripping water.

Interestingly, the razor was floating easily across the stone, but after 30-40 laps it started clinging to the hone despite the aquaplaning, and finally got stuck on both sides. This is where I stopped using the hone and stropped the razor on a linen hose and repeated the previous step with the 15K slate under dripping water (the trick Dr. Matt showed in one of his videos). Again the sensations were slick at first, then the stickiness started growing and finally the razor got stuck. After that I stropped the razor on a leather belt and gave it a hair test.

The result was terrific: it was cutting hanging hairs of my younger 7 year old daughter (got them from her hairbrush), which as you realize are way thinner than the hairs of an adult. I'm super-happy with the test results, but the real testing is still ahead as I don't have time for wet shaving till the coming Saturday. Will keep you posted.

 

[Stonegrip]

All right. To nail down this thread and as per my own promise made in the previous post, I've finally used the razor honed with the so-called 15K Welsh slate.

A lyrical digression before I go to the very point: one thing worth mentioning is that I wear a beard, and I only shave my head, lower neck and cheek bones, which makes me very sensitive to the quality of the razor. Half of my life I've been shaving my face with a low-level USSR inox steel razor (Trud Vacha) and I was fine with that, but in the course of time, becoming baldy and beardy, I realized that not all the razors may shave heads equally well. My Soviet razor surely could not, so I even stopped using it and switched to Shick cartridge shavers. But then I gave another try to a newly purchased Puma, and being satisfied with the result, I went back to SR shaving. The reason I added this preamble is to emphasize that I'm a very picky person when it comes to decide if the razor is good or not as I'm shaving my head with it.

Anyways. So I used the razor, and it was Filarmonica 13, and the result was amazing. Very smooth and forgiving, but at the same time sharp enough to give me a very close shave with almost no bumps (there were just a couple on the parietal ridge, but they were tiny). Overall, I'm very happy with the result.

 

[Empire straights]

Man i need to bust mine out and give it an honest go again. Feedback changes for the middle third of the hone. I should try it with mineral oil after a coticule. I think it doesn't like arkansas edges.

 

[Matt O]

So I bought one of these 15k early on in my attempts at honing my razors…which was over three years ago now (insane to me). I didn’t know anything, and I didn’t even know if it gave me a good shave or not.

So I decided to break it out today. This Filarmonica Especial had a 100% beautiful and fresh JNAT edge, and so I started off with slurry to really replace the fine JNAT mist pattern on the bevel near the edge under the Nikon loupe. Then I spent a good amount of time on just water. I have to say the scratch pattern observed is off putting, but the edge looks fine, and it passed the HHT in excellent fashion.

The scratch pattern does not appear to be as fine as the Escher scratch pattern…perhaps I will use that right now to observe if it is more fine, or if that’s just in my head.

Vr

Matt

 

[LJS]

so I started off with slurry to really replace the fine JNAT mist pattern on the bevel near the edge

Im not saying your expectations should be higher really, but that slurry did you a disservice. My experience is these slates shouldn’t be slurried at all for razors. And I can’t imagine the best edge off one of these really equalling a proper thuri like Escher.