I found this translucent 8 x 2 x 1/2 stone in my shave cabinet and I've lapped it flat on a very old dia-sharp extra fine 1200 diamond plate, rounded the edges, and gave it a go with some honing oil. The edge I got was okay, but not better than my JNAT edges. I probably did about 100 laps. Any tips on how to get that great Arkansas edge off this stone? I've been honing for years and have no issues with my JNAT, coticules, or thuringians, but seem at a loss with this
stone.
Translucent Arkansas help please
- Thread starter RenoRichard
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Someone with more experience than me will chim in.
But, if the stone needs lapping you will need to go rougher than a 1200 diamond plate. I did my translucent with 120 500 1000 w/d paper.
Also IME, with my stone, 100 laps won’t do it. 400 or more is probably closer to what I do.
But, if the stone needs lapping you will need to go rougher than a 1200 diamond plate. I did my translucent with 120 500 1000 w/d paper.
Also IME, with my stone, 100 laps won’t do it. 400 or more is probably closer to what I do.
I finish my trans with 600 loose SiC.im guessing your diamond plate may be too Fine? The smother the stone the slower. An ark edge will differ in feel from a jnat (ozuku and kitta) in my experience. arks have a bit of learning curve. think it is important to tune the final finish of stones face to match stone, honing style, razor, desired feel. Arks are all about comfort. Sure you can still pass HHT, but they excel in the comfort zone. Vs light sabre, I suggest you finish one side of stone smoother, other side slightly coarser. depending on stone Ark tends to need more laps to Finish. i do have one trans that is almost as fast a jnat... but this one is an outlier
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Arks can be a bit funny to use, They certainly work different to most natural stones anyway.
Just this morning I used vintage hard black ark for the first time, Though I have done the same / had similar results with trans arks, here’s how I went about it.
I flattened the stone and lapped it down to 800 grit diamond plate level, then finished the stone on 600 / 800 / 1000 grit wet and dry (which leaves a very different finish to 800 grit diamond plate)
I then took a beater razor, And did a few dozen sets of half strokes and circles, being sure to use every bit of the stone surface to knock off any high points/ tear out any loose grit that might be lying in wait to ruin my carefully prepared edge later.
I took a razor (5/8” hollow ground Kropp with a nice coti edge) and did 200 laps on the ark using fine oil (in this case wd40 / mineral oil mix as it’s what I had to hand) I then stropped on linen and did another 100, stropped again and did 100 more. Linen / leather stropped and shaved.
The edge was a large step up from the coti in terms of keenness, and I had to be use a bit more care while shaving, but a terrific shave was had
A few tips which might help:
Once prepped hard hard arks don’t cut much, so you’re going to want to take an already sharp edge to the stone, I tend to go coti - ark
if using oil, use enough to coat the surface and not much more, otherwise the blade just glides on a film of oil and doesn’t cut
laps, laps and more laps, I usually do 2-300, though my stone is smaller than yours surface area wise.
Let us know how you get on
Rob
Just this morning I used vintage hard black ark for the first time, Though I have done the same / had similar results with trans arks, here’s how I went about it.
I flattened the stone and lapped it down to 800 grit diamond plate level, then finished the stone on 600 / 800 / 1000 grit wet and dry (which leaves a very different finish to 800 grit diamond plate)
I then took a beater razor, And did a few dozen sets of half strokes and circles, being sure to use every bit of the stone surface to knock off any high points/ tear out any loose grit that might be lying in wait to ruin my carefully prepared edge later.
I took a razor (5/8” hollow ground Kropp with a nice coti edge) and did 200 laps on the ark using fine oil (in this case wd40 / mineral oil mix as it’s what I had to hand) I then stropped on linen and did another 100, stropped again and did 100 more. Linen / leather stropped and shaved.
The edge was a large step up from the coti in terms of keenness, and I had to be use a bit more care while shaving, but a terrific shave was had
A few tips which might help:
Once prepped hard hard arks don’t cut much, so you’re going to want to take an already sharp edge to the stone, I tend to go coti - ark
if using oil, use enough to coat the surface and not much more, otherwise the blade just glides on a film of oil and doesn’t cut
laps, laps and more laps, I usually do 2-300, though my stone is smaller than yours surface area wise.
Let us know how you get on
Rob
Best if you have an edge coming to the stone. Then try starting off with pressure on the edge. Work that and lighten up as you go. Don’t use the Jnat feather touch all the way through is the deal. Unless you want to do laps all night.
Also not a stone that will forgive lift/mistakes and will take you back a notch in one slip.
Good luck!
Also not a stone that will forgive lift/mistakes and will take you back a notch in one slip.
Good luck!
I ordered a trans just like your from Dan's last week. I was told to use 220 wet/dry with lots of pressure and elbow grease to finish the stone.
I have a 6 x 2 SB that takes about 400 laps to put an edge on that I can't feel.
- Thread starter
- #7
Thanks for all the tips. After reading them I re-lapped the stone with a worn 325 DMT, a worn 1200 DMT, 800 grit and then 1000 grit wet/dry-it's all I had in the house. Then I burnished the stone with a steel screwdriver shaft; one side now reflects light nicely when held at an angle. Over the weekend I honed a Thiers Issard 5/8 and finished it on my JNAT. I've had two really nice shaves with it, so I know I have a good edge to take to the Arkansas. I'll give it ~400 careful laps in the morning, strop it well, and see what the edge looks like.
- Thread starter
- #8
Good luck with your new stone! I can't recall when I got the trans I have; it may well have been in a batch of stuff I bought about 7 years ago
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Uhhhh.....400 laps? Dress it on 600 W/D. Probably lower that by half. Maxed out edge on previous stone is essential.
Nice stone! I hope to have a Dan's some day.
Nice stone! I hope to have a Dan's some day.
It had actually been maxed out on my convexed coticule. My SB is so slow that is what it took to polish the coticule edge down. It was worth it, as the edge came out unbelievably keen.
So I ordered an ark progression, soft/hard/trans, all 8 x 2 x 1/2 from Dan's to lower the lap count............
Another Arkaholic is born.......
What are you using to hone prior to introducing the translucent Arkansas? From my experience, any serious lapping of an Arkansas stone upon or underneath a diamond hone quickly results in an exhausted diamond hone. SiC powder is better.
I believe I still need to be on the lookout for a washita and a primitive to complete the set............
Not sure about any more coticules, but I am getting interested in jnats, even though I know nothing about them other than they seem to be found inside rabbit holes.......
I've tried long and hard to master a full Ark progression. It's a challenge to do a full Ark progression. A lot of variables in the lower grit hones. Early this year I started using a Shapton Pro 1.5k for bevel setting, Coticule and an unnamed slate after the Coticule. It really cleans up my apex and cleans up the bevels before going to the Black/Trans Arks. The Coticule and Slate are finishers but I prefer the Ark edge. 2 levels of shave ready before the Arks. The results are stunning. If you go Coticule to Ark, yes your lap count will go up. That's why I threw the slate in between. I'll post it some day and maybe some one can identify it. I just call it "Bob"......Bob Slate.
You don't need to lap an Arkansas stone from Dan's, they come as flat as humanly possible from the vendor, and that's one of the reasons why you pay a premium for them. Arkansas stones are not easy to understand and use, but I don't believe lapping is your problem.
- Thread starter
- #16
The razor I am going to do this morning has been honed from a 10K Naniwa to a JNAT and has given me two great shaves, so I know it is a good edge to start with. We'll see how I do today; fingers crossed.
Yes, the stone started off pretty flat. It has been sitting around here for years new and unused. I have a small 4 x 2 surgical black from Dan's also that was in the same bunch of stuff.
I ended up wearing out a few sheets of wet/dry, which seems to have polished the stone more than anything else. The one side that I didn't fuss with is non-reflective when tilted towards light; the other for use is now pretty polished/reflective.
Maybe I've misunderstood, but I thought what one needed to do with an translucent Arkansas to use as a finisher was to "knock the tops off the particles sticking up and burnish the stone"; essentially polish it before it was suitable for razors.
Exactly.
Before I put my GD Mod to the coticule, I had already put it through a synth progression. 800 chosera/4k/8k norton/12k naniwa. The edge was very nice, but I knew there was more.
Then I put it on my convexed coticule, and it was shave ready, but far from comfortable.
That is when I put the laps on the SB ark, and, the edge is stunning.
But it was a ton of work......
- Thread starter
- #18
That GD mod is stunning! What did you use to grind down the spine and remove the shoulders, a Dremel? I have some GDs here and would like to give a mod a go.
Thank you, the GD Mod is my first time entry in The B&B Gold Dollar Mod Competition
There is still time to enter, as they have extended the deadline until August, I believe. I used a small grinder from Harbor Freight that has a flexible hand grinding attachment for the grinding work. A Dremel works too!
- Thread starter
- #20
Well, the shave off the trans ark today was okay, no nicks, close, but not spectacular. I guess it's back to the drawing board for me with this stone; I'll burnish it more before trying again. Under magnification, my scratch pattern off the ark was more visible than the hazy finish I get off the JNAT, and the ATG pass was tougher in most areas. The razor did not feel sharper or smoother. I re-finished the razor just now on the JNAT for a try tomorrow. It's, of course, possible I damaged the edge on the ark a bit this morning, we shall see. This is such a fascinating hobby. Thanks for all the help and support!
Richard
Richard
