Any difference between using a stainless on a barbers hone vs. a carbon razor for touch up only?
Touching up a stainless str8 with a barbers hone...
- Thread starter Ru4scuba?
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Stainless is more ductile than carbon. How that affects you touching it up on a barber's hone depends on the hone. In a general sense, because stainless has a greater tendency to smear (deform plasticly) than fracture, it can be a little touchier than carbon.
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Ok thanks. I found some info on Wikipedia that suggests that plastic deformation is not reversible...I would think this would be a bad thing in a razor blade...that said the same article stated that steel has a large plastic deformation range...so, can the lower levels of deformation actually be reversed?]
When you hone a stainless razor are you actually in the elastic range of the steel?
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You now know more about plastic deformation than I do. 
The process for honing stainless is essentially the same what you would use for carbon. Since it doesn't fracture as easily, it takes a little more to get the edge where you want it.
The process for honing stainless is essentially the same what you would use for carbon. Since it doesn't fracture as easily, it takes a little more to get the edge where you want it.
Strops were invented to correct plastic deformation.
my 2c, you are going to use the wight of the razor to touch up, in this regime plastic deformation will be probably zero. Try bend a razor blade until it changes shape for good, which is what plastic deformation is,it will take some significant force(compared to honing pressures) to accomplish. Who knows the razor might even snap before it deforms.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Even more reason to use only the lightest pressure on the stone!
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Good stuff...thanks to all for the replies...also got an education about steel...always a good thing! 
Hard to bend a razor blade, that's true. But not so hard to bend the very fine edge. A rolled edge is simply that: plastic deformation of the thin refined edge, right?
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- #10
Well...here is the question then. When you roll an edge...and subsequently fix it through re-honing...are you completely removing the edge and creating a new one? Or are you simply re-aligning the previously rolled edge?
If the answer is the former...then yes, its plastic deformation by the textbook definition.
If you are simply re-aligning the pre-existing edge...then thats elastic deformation.
Or, as I asked in my original question, as stainless has such a large plastic deformation range, is it possible to reverse plastic deformation of a stainless razor in the lower levels of the range?
Everything I read said plastic deformation was irreversible...only elastic deformation was reversible.
no doubt but it needs a bit of a push to do it, touching up should be done with the weight of the blade, then IMHO there is no deformation at all.
If you fix by honing, then you are removing metal, right? I haven 't experienced a rolled edge , so I don't quite know all the parameters. Can someone chime in if a rolled edge can be fixed by proper stropping alone?
My understanding is rather simplified. Elastic would mean it springs back to it's original shape by itself. Plastic means that, it will not return without an external force (in other words, having to again undergo plastic deformation in the opposite direction).
And in regards to this thread, the differences in honing stainless and carbon are quite marginal. The view that has been popularized that stainless is harder to hone makes it seem as if it is a whole different experience to try and hone a stainless razor, that it will require some sort of special "something", when in fact the differences are rather subtle, almost to the point of being unnoticeable in my experience.
I can tell that stainless is more wear resistant when I'm doing some dremel work on one as compared to a carbon razor, so it is true that they do behave differently, but when it comes to honing, that different manifests in only perhaps requiring a few more laps on the hone.
My understanding is rather simplified. Elastic would mean it springs back to it's original shape by itself. Plastic means that, it will not return without an external force (in other words, having to again undergo plastic deformation in the opposite direction).
And in regards to this thread, the differences in honing stainless and carbon are quite marginal. The view that has been popularized that stainless is harder to hone makes it seem as if it is a whole different experience to try and hone a stainless razor, that it will require some sort of special "something", when in fact the differences are rather subtle, almost to the point of being unnoticeable in my experience.
I can tell that stainless is more wear resistant when I'm doing some dremel work on one as compared to a carbon razor, so it is true that they do behave differently, but when it comes to honing, that different manifests in only perhaps requiring a few more laps on the hone.
Yes, I agree. By honing normally, there will be no deformation of any kind.
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- #14
So...the conclusion is that we are reforming the rolled edge and thus, plastically re-forming the blade (since we are removing...not realigning metal)
Correct?
Correct?
Indeed. It isn't the deformation that makes stainless slightly trickier to hone, it is the resistance to fracturing. But we are really, really splitting hairs here. Much as with carbon or silver steel, if the bevel is good the razor will take a good shaving edge.
I think we're spiralling off topic. If the original question is how can you touch up a stainless on a barber's hone, the answer is-- the same as you would with a carbon razor.
I have not observed any differences between carbon and stainless during honing when examining under magnification, so in regards to honing, deformation, etc doesn't really have any bearing.
A rolled edge is probably a whole 'nother ball of wax, which I cannot really contribute any experiential info for.
my reasoning would be you have to go back down the grits(start from high to low if needed) until you get rid of the rolled steel and reestablish the bevel again.
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- #18
WRT the original question...got it....stainless is the same as carbon WRT honing except for possibly a few more strokes.
But it appears this thread has morphed somewhat into a more interesting question.
Does a rolled edge constitute plastic deformation and if so, are you "re-forming" it plastically when you re-hone to get the edge back on track.
I think the answer is yes although, as Prof Chaos says...its kinda splitting hairs because the level of deformation, WRT the whole blade, is minute.
My opinion is that honing=abrading=removal of material, not reforming what is already there. Stropping reforms to a small degree what is already there.
if you hammer it with the stones yes its going to be plastic, if you hone it then its just abrasive action pf removing material.
