Toilet paper

[SliceOfLife]

Bulletpoints cause I need to leave in a few seconds:

• Toilet paper didn't damage your edge.
• If any polish came in contact with your edge, even in the most minor amount, it would destroy your edge.
• Black spots on steel aren't likely to be blood. You need to be rinsing your razor after use to remove soap anyway, and visible blood spots would not stay on after rinsing.
• If your razor is getting visible oxidation spots rapidly after use, I'd wonder about the steel in it. What's the razor?

 

[ScottChapin]

What works for me is after shaving I dry with a towel then strop then spray with clippercide. I have zero issues with rust, water marks etc. I do leave the blade scales open to dry out for a day minimum.

Yeah, I’m right for space to leave it out. I rinse it well in hot water. Then I wipe it with toilet paper and run a hair dryer on it, including the scales and pin. Then I coat it with mineral oil (very lightly).

I’ve been thinking of going to Barbesol.


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[Steve56]

Sounds like the razor is clean enough, but if you didn’t get the black spots with metal polish it would seem that the razor isn’t really as clean as you think that it might be. What soap are you using? A lot of soaps these days have a lot of excess fat in them, and it can be difficult to remove completely. Proraso is an example and many artisan soaps have a lot of fat in them. it isn’t corrosive, but it does hold moisture.

It takes physical rubbing to really remove soap residue completely, which I assume that you were doing with metal polish (which usually contains a wax or something that prevents oxidation). Try doing the same thing, rubbing the blade with TP, but without the metal polish. You can also use clean fingers but be careful of course.

You also mention blowing out the pivot, so I assume that there’s water in the pivot which means water between the scales. Are the scales dry on the inside too? Are you closing the razor right after shaving - if you’re putting it up I’d guess yes. Try leaving the razor open for several hours to see if that helps if you can do so safely.

 

[ScottChapin]

Sounds like the razor is clean enough, but if you didn’t get the black spots with metal polish it would seem that the razor isn’t really as clean as you think that it might be. What soap are you using? A lot of soaps these days have a lot of excess fat in them, and it can be difficult to remove completely. Proraso is an example and many artisan soaps have a lot of fat in them. it isn’t corrosive, but it does hold moisture.

It takes physical rubbing to really remove soap residue completely, which I assume that you were doing with metal polish (which usually contains a wax or something that prevents oxidation). Try doing the same thing, rubbing the blade with TP, but without the metal polish. You can also use clean fingers but be careful of course.

You also mention blowing out the pivot, so I assume that there’s water in the pivot which means water between the scales. Are the scales dry on the inside too? Are you closing the razor right after shaving - if you’re putting it up I’d guess yes. Try leaving the razor open for several hours to see if that helps if you can do so safely.

I’m using a lot of soaps, mostly tallow based: Tabac, Proraso, MWF, Stirling, Fine , RazoRock, Cella, Geo Thumper, Castle Forbes...etc.

I keep the scales and pivot as dry as possible. Blowing them out is a safety precaution. I do close it, because I don’t have space to leave it out. I’ll have to dwell on that a bit.

I figure it’s bone dry before I put mineral oil on it. The box I keep my straights in has desiccant packs.

I’m betting their might be some unseen soap on the blades, despite wiping them down with toilet paper. Participants so, since the spots are slightly above and parallel to the edge, where soap would build up the most.


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[Steve56]

Your description - parallel and above the bevel - sounds like soap residue.

 

[ScottChapin]

Your description - parallel and above the bevel - sounds like soap residue.

Yep. The instant you mentioned it, I thought it had to be. I was guessing blood from rally really minor nicks at first.


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[shadowman12]

You need to go back to a 1k and set a new bevel/do a bevel reset after polishing.

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[ScottChapin]

You need to go back to a 1k and set a new bevel/do a bevel reset after polishing.

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It’s shaving well now, but I would like to perhaps reset the bevel. I have a hard time coming to grips with that, wondering whether a burr will develop and why. Intuition says the bevel will just keep getting wider and form a guillotine edge. Why will a burr form when the edge reaches the center plane of the blade?


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[shadowman12]

It’s shaving well now, but I would like to perhaps reset the bevel. I have a hard time coming to grips with that, wondering whether a burr will develop and why. Intuition says the bevel will just keep getting wider and form a guillotine edge. Why will a burr form when the edge reaches the center plane of the blade?


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On a straight razor you don't want to have a burr, that's one of the differences in honing a knives versus a straight razor.

See below for the explanation:

The thickness of a burr is several microns
For shaving, we are targeting an edge width in the range of 0.1 micron or less. If we were to “break off” this burr, the edge profile would be far coarser than is achieved with even the lowest grit stones typically used in straight razor honing. For that reason, the raised-burr is not desirable to straight razor honing.

In the typical honing progression on a flat hone with edge leading strokes, alternating sides, a triangular bevel is formed, terminating at a width determined by the level of “micro-chipping” that occurs at the apex. A burr, as defined by “metal beyond the apex” does not form; the raised-burr is easily avoided.



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[ScottChapin]

On a straight razor you don't want to have a burr, that's one of the differences in honing a knives versus a straight razor.

See below for the explanation:

The thickness of a burr is several microns
For shaving, we are targeting an edge width in the range of 0.1 micron or less. If we were to “break off” this burr, the edge profile would be far coarser than is achieved with even the lowest grit stones typically used in straight razor honing. For that reason, the raised-burr is not desirable to straight razor honing.

In the typical honing progression on a flat hone with edge leading strokes, alternating sides, a triangular bevel is formed, terminating at a width determined by the level of “micro-chipping” that occurs at the apex. A burr, as defined by “metal beyond the apex” does not form; the raised-burr is easily avoided.



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Thanks!


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[shadowman12]

Thanks!


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I saw you also had issues with possibly soap residu on the blade. I had that also in the beginning and I now also Ballistol oil, which also cleans the blade and forms a protective layer of oil, way better than mineral oil.

My routine is to leave the blade a couple of minutes in a mild dishwash soap and then rinse of the blade, dry it out with a blow dryer and then put Ballistol on it.

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[ScottChapin]

I saw you also had issues with possibly soap residu on the blade. I had that also in the beginning and I now also Ballistol oil, which also cleans the blade and forms a protective layer of oil, way better than mineral oil.

My routine is to leave the blade a couple of minutes in a mild dishwash soap and then rinse of the blade, dry it out with a blow dryer and then put Ballistol on it.

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I understand that Ballistol displaces water, so it’s definitely on my list of needs.


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[Slash McCoy]

On a straight razor you don't want to have a burr, that's one of the differences in honing a knives versus a straight razor.

See below for the explanation:

The thickness of a burr is several microns
For shaving, we are targeting an edge width in the range of 0.1 micron or less. If we were to “break off” this burr, the edge profile would be far coarser than is achieved with even the lowest grit stones typically used in straight razor honing. For that reason, the raised-burr is not desirable to straight razor honing.

In the typical honing progression on a flat hone with edge leading strokes, alternating sides, a triangular bevel is formed, terminating at a width determined by the level of “micro-chipping” that occurs at the apex. A burr, as defined by “metal beyond the apex” does not form; the raised-burr is easily avoided.



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I nearly always raise a burr. It is fast and leaves little to subjectivity. It is also a great technique for a newbie because it requires fewer judgement calls. You should only have to set the bevel once. Honing off the burr takes care of the breakoff. The trick is to not raise a big burr... just at the lower limit that it can be detected by comparing the two sides with a fingertip. With a highly irregular edge you can have a strong burr in one or a few spots and a weak burr or no burr in others. So the burr method also evens out the edge.

What you are saying is very true when very little steel needs to be removed. If you know that a dozen laps is all you are going to need to peak up the apex, then obviously you don't want to do 50 circles on one side to give a burr a chance to form. Most razors do need more steel than that removed when setting the bevel, though.

The burr method is not needed, once you have learned how to judge when a bevel is complete, and then it is only a matter of expedience or preference, and nothing wrong with not doing it that way but instead just honing with regular laps until the bevel is set and verified.

 

[ScottChapin]

I nearly always raise a burr. It is fast and leaves little to subjectivity. It is also a great technique for a newbie because it requires fewer judgement calls. You should only have to set the bevel once. Honing off the burr takes care of the breakoff. The trick is to not raise a big burr... just at the lower limit that it can be detected by comparing the two sides with a fingertip. With a highly irregular edge you can have a strong burr in one or a few spots and a weak burr or no burr in others. So the burr method also evens out the edge.

What you are saying is very true when very little steel needs to be removed. If you know that a dozen laps is all you are going to need to peak up the apex, then obviously you don't want to do 50 circles on one side to give a burr a chance to form. Most razors do need more steel than that removed when setting the bevel, though.

The burr method is not needed, once you have learned how to judge when a bevel is complete, and then it is only a matter of expedience or preference, and nothing wrong with not doing it that way but instead just honing with regular laps until the bevel is set and verified.

What causes the burr to develop and does it automatically occur when the apex is on the central plane of the blade? I guess I obsess with having the sides of both bevels being equal in width and the apex in the blade’s center plane.


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[Slash McCoy]

The apex will be and should be approximately at the center plane of the razor as made. The center plane, though, IS the plane between the apex and the center of the spine's back. Wherever the apex is, that is the center plane. It could have more steel on one side than the other, yes. That is not ideal but it honestly doesn't really hurt anything.

When you raise a burr, remember, you are doing this on first one side, then the other. You are removing the same amount of steel on each side in turn.

A burr forms when a bevel plane meets the other side and honing on the one side is continued. For the burr to form, enough pressure must be used to flex the edge so that it is deflected upward. This causes steel to be removed from just behind the upturned apex, causing it to flex still easier and allowing the edge to be deflected still more. So the bevel plane has crossed over the old apex. Now when you flip the razor and perform about the same number of laps on the other side, the burr will first be mostly removed, then begin to reform as the edge is deflected upward again, to the other side. When the burr is detected, you have worn both bevels to the point where an apex of two flat planes meeting, has formed, but you still have a burr to get rid of. Diminishing sets of half strokes or circle strokes will do it, or just honing with ordinary alternating laps with light pressure will do it.

So what causes the burr to form is pressure and continuous honing on one side of the razor, and the flex of the steel.

 

[ScottChapin]

Thank you! I still have a hard time understanding why a bevel’ apex cannot cross the center plane and become a guillotine type edge, other than a Guillotine blade is a block of steel with parallel sides.


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[Slash McCoy]

Both sides are honed.

Step 1. Side A is honed until there is a burr on side B.

Step 2. Side B is honed until there is a burr on side A, and approximately teh same number of strokes have been made on both sides. Correct as necessary.

More or less the same amount of steel has been removed from each side. The bevel is therefore still symmetrical.

Step 3. The final burr is removed by honing.

In step 1 the bevel does cross over what was the original center plane of the razor.

In step 2 the bevel does cross over what was the original center plane of the razor.

The apex that results after cleaning up the burr is now defining the center plane and in fact is at or very near the original center plane.

 

[ScottChapin]

Both sides are honed.

Step 1. Side A is honed until there is a burr on side B.

Step 2. Side B is honed until there is a burr on side A, and approximately teh same number of strokes have been made on both sides. Correct as necessary.

More or less the same amount of steel has been removed from each side. The bevel is therefore still symmetrical.

Step 3. The final burr is removed by honing.

In step 1 the bevel does cross over what was the original center plane of the razor.

In step 2 the bevel does cross over what was the original center plane of the razor.

The apex that results after cleaning up the burr is now defining the center plane and in fact is at or very near the original center plane.

Clear. Thank you. I guess my OCD was insisting upon pure symmetry.


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[Slash McCoy]

Clear. Thank you. I guess my OCD was insisting upon pure symmetry.


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The symmetry is there. The same amount of steel is removed from each side.

 

[ScottChapin]

The symmetry is there. The same amount of steel is removed from each side.

That assumes that the blade was in good condition and symmetrical to begin with, right? If the previous owner had over honed one side, that unevenness would be maintained...no?


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