Toe never as sharp as heel.

[dakotaev]

Hey all,

I'm having an issue with some older dull razors, when setting the bevel I can get the heel half of the blade sharp enough to cut arm hair, but I'm having problems getting the toe sharp enough. I've tried everything I can think of.

In your experience what is my problem? Am I putting too much pressure on one side? not enough on another?

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!

 

[Chimensch]

The blade may be warped. Try a rolling X stroke or a narrow hone.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I find that it's pretty common for vintage razors that were used to be honed MUCH heavier at the toes than heels. You either have to correct this (by adding a lot of hone wear to everywhere but the toe and then rebeveling) or continue this practice. Now if the razor DOESN'T have more hone wear at the toe, then yeah my next assumption would be the blade is warped.

A picture of your razor/s would help us see the problem.

Also, depending on the stones it can be pretty easy to see where you're touching. Especially with soft steels and whetstones. The part of the bevel you aren't contacting on will darken relatively quickly sitting in water while you hone, so a line of where is getting contact and where isn't will develop quite easily. The easy way of forcing this is just to use a sharpie on your bevel, but my eyes are pretty decent so I don't need a contrast that high.

The one time to be careful of this is on heavier grinds where there is a history of tape honing. In these cases the entire bevel contacts except RIGHT at the edge. So it will look like you're honing perfectly, but there's a little thin strip of razor that isn't on the stones (can be viewed under scope) and you are making absolutely no change to the edge (and won't until you drop to a lower grit stone and completely remove the taped bevel along the blades depth). My first real big "restoration" job was on a small half hollow Fil that had been kept taped. It felt like an ok edge to me but not quite shave ready, so I went to my barbers hone and eventually my 4k king and spent hours honing on it (I was new, I didn't know better). I tried a few shaves during this time and the edge wasn't changing at all. Finally I got my hands on a scope and looked at it and noticed a blue line dividing the bevel I'd been carving out (using a 4k JIS rated hone) and the previous (several layers of tape) bevel. I don't think I had a courser hone at the time, so I just started using lots of pressure and slurry on my 4k until I finally had it rebeveled and it honed up like a gem after (but went from NOS looking to about 2mm of hone wear).

 

[dakotaev]

Thanks guys, I will try the rolling x if no luck I will try trying to fix the wear on the spine, (indeed the wear looks worse near the toe).

 

[LarryAndro]

With many of us, most of our strokes put more pressure on the heel than the toe. This tends to sharpen the heel more. I like to mix in some passes with the edge trailing, with the tip purposefully touching the hone first. It is a type of rolling stroke, and tends to hone the tip more than the heel.

You might try working some variation of this stroke into your mix of strokes. Or, at least, examine your method to ensure the tip is evenly honed.

 

[dakotaev]

Thanks Larry. I will also keep this in mind while giving it another go after work today.

 

[natchez]

I have tried a two-handed stroke with my left fingers resting around the tip as I hone. It seems to help with the rolling for me. In fact, I often use two hands when honing.

 

[Disburden]

Sounds like a pressure thing, you can use two hands, like which has been said but I don't choose to work that way. I feel you can use unknown pressure when using two hands and using one can lead to a lighter touch, but it does take more training for muscle memory.

Either it's your strokes, the hone wear, or a warp.

 

[wdwrx]

What about simply honing just the toe? Or whatever area lags behind.
IIRC the 1961 Barber's manual of SRP fame advocates focusing on different areas of the blade. IIRC it's mentioned to maintain an appropriate smile to the edge by compensating for each person's imperfect execution of the honing stroke and a tendency for blades to develop a frown.
I often do the same with what seems like good success. I've got one blade that seems to have been honed more, or maybe it was made, with a narrower heel than toe, and I've been focusing on bringing the edge to a more aesthetically pleasing shape by adding toe focused honing strokes every time I re-hone it. The edge is slowly coming around. I guess I could just BK it, but I've really grown to dislike that practice and by gently nursing it along, I'm getting a better feel for my ability to control the shape of the blade through regular honing.
To make a long story short, I don't think there's anything wrong with giving a bit more attention to different areas of a blade.

 

[dakotaev]

"Great success!"

Thanks for the advice all, I was able to knock off a two of the razors giving me troubles tonight. I used a combination of all the advice you guys gave, a little of this a little of that and got a really sharp edge from heel to toe. Although two others are just being plain stubborn, I will keep working on those! I've found experimentation, persistence and a little variation seems to be the key.

Shave test will reveal how successful I was however they are both popping arm hair nearly as well the sharpest of blades I own.

 

[natchez]

"Great success!"

Thanks for the advice all, I was able to knock off a two of the razors giving me troubles tonight. I used a combination of all the advice you guys gave, a little of this a little of that and got a really sharp edge from heel to toe. Although two others are just being plain stubborn, I will keep working on those! I've found experimentation, persistence and a little variation seems to be the key.

Shave test will reveal how successful I was however they are both popping arm hair nearly as well the sharpest of blades I own.

Great- keep at it. Sounds like you have gotten what you needed from posting and I guess that is what this is all about. It is interesting to read how we all have some similar, but also different approaches to the same problem.

By the way, I am not sure any vintage razor ground by hand was really truly flat if you measure down far enough. I think there was much variation, which makes honing as much an art as a science.

 

[dakotaev]

Great- keep at it. Sounds like you have gotten what you needed from posting and I guess that is what this is all about. It is interesting to read how we all have some similar, but also different approaches to the same problem.

By the way, I am not sure any vintage razor ground by hand was really truly flat if you measure down far enough. I think there was much variation, which makes honing as much an art as a science.

Just as shaving with these took me months to get right, I'm sure honing will too, but already seeing great results with help from these great folks!