Tobaccos that ageing spoiled?

[AimlessWanderer]

For those who have aged many tobaccos for several years, which types of tobacco were te biggest disappointment after finally cracking the tin? English? Light aromatics? Virginia Burleys?

Much is written online about Virginias, Orientals (other than Latakia), and Perique blends all developing well over time. Much is also written about Latakia mellowing. Occasionally you'll see someone say their tin hadn't changed much, but there's little in the way of which blends deteriorated. I don't mean drying out, or being spoiled by rust or mould, but simply tasted better younger rather than older. Maybe the tobacco went bland, or a topping on a non-Cavendish blend soured, or turned bitter.

As my cellar is all single tins, and being a low quantity consumer, I don't have the option of opening one every so often, as is so often recommended, to discover whether two years old was actually better than five. I've just bought a tin of what I think I'll like, and stuffed it in the drawer for later.

Thinking ahead, I may continue to keep chucking different blends in as as time goes on, but throwing in something different to what I've pulled out. In effect, never smoking more than one tin of anything in a ten year period. Also, maybe throwing in a tin of something that I wasn't entirely enamoured with fresh (e.g. Kendal Cream, Bothy Flake, or Glen Piper), but which I might like better after a few years in a sealed tin.

So, another way of asking the question, would possibly be "If everything I buy will be aged for 5-10 years before smoking it, what should I not buy on that basis?"

I hope you can see what I'm angling at here. I don't want everything I'm smoking in five to ten years to only be plain Virginias and VaPers, but I don't want to be ageing some whisky topped VaBur, or light English, or whatever, only to discover after a long wait, that it now tastes like cardboard, and I wasted my money.

Note: This may also help me pull tins out of the existing stash before it's "smoke by" date.

 

[Kentos]

If you like the peppery in-your-face flavor of Perique, aging it diminishes that a bit and turns to a dark stone fruit type of flavor, like maybe Apricots.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

If you like the peppery in-your-face flavor of Perique, aging it diminishes that a bit and turns to a dark stone fruit type of flavor, like maybe Apricots.

I'm OK with most stone fruits (particularly cherry, plums, damsons, and mirabelle de nancy), so that would be fine by me. In fact, I can see that being a bonus with something like Dark Flake, where a little less spice and a little more fruitiness, would be quite welcome. In fact, that might even tempt me to put my stronger Perique blends like Hal O'the Wynd back a little longer if I can.

 

[Columbo]

For those who have aged many tobaccos for several years, which types of tobacco were te biggest disappointment after finally cracking the tin? English? Light aromatics? Virginia Burleys?

Much is written online about Virginias, Orientals (other than Latakia), and Perique blends all developing well over time. Much is also written about Latakia mellowing. Occasionally you'll see someone say their tin hadn't changed much, but there's little in the way of which blends deteriorated. I don't mean drying out, or being spoiled by rust or mould, but simply tasted better younger rather than older. Maybe the tobacco went bland, or a topping on a non-Cavendish blend soured, or turned bitter.

As my cellar is all single tins, and being a low quantity consumer, I don't have the option of opening one every so often, as is so often recommended, to discover whether two years old was actually better than five. I've just bought a tin of what I think I'll like, and stuffed it in the drawer for later.

Thinking ahead, I may continue to keep chucking different blends in as as time goes on, but throwing in something different to what I've pulled out. In effect, never smoking more than one tin of anything in a ten year period. Also, maybe throwing in a tin of something that I wasn't entirely enamoured with fresh (e.g. Kendal Cream, Bothy Flake, or Glen Piper), but which I might like better after a few years in a sealed tin.

So, another way of asking the question, would possibly be "If everything I buy will be aged for 5-10 years before smoking it, what should I not buy on that basis?"

I hope you can see what I'm angling at here. I don't want everything I'm smoking in five to ten years to only be plain Virginias and VaPers, but I don't want to be ageing some whisky topped VaBur, or light English, or whatever, only to discover after a long wait, that it now tastes like cardboard, and I wasted my money.

Note: This may also help me pull tins out of the existing stash before it's "smoke by" date.

Most base leafs have fairly predictable aging characteristics. I have never encountered a good quality competently cased base leaf that has degraded (”disappointed”) in proper storage. Sharper and spicier varieties will tend to mellow, and the sharpest notes may meld and smooth out a little, as has been pointed out. If you value the sharpness of a blend note, then the smoothing of those notes might translate into “disappointment“. But like with a great cigar, most smokers appreciate the improved harmonization in those situations. The complexity of the blend is better revealed as the loud note recedes just a little.

Some other leaf varieties will change little from aging. The native sugar content in the leaf will dictate the range of aging response, which is why for example VA is a good aging candidate. I recently cracked open a decade old can of Reiners LGF, and it is sublime. A dramatic improvement over what is already an excellent-when-fresh blend.

For pipe tobaccos, my experience is that those that cellar well can be cellared indefinitely. Factory sealed tins and tubs, especially so with simple, burley-heavy, lightly-topped OTC blends, will store well for many decades. There is really no “smoke by” dates with those. But once you crack the tin or tub open, for some, the clock starts ticking.

Where it gets more complicated is with toppings. Some toppings can degrade and fade over time. For some, this can be a welcome change, as more of the natural tobacco flavor can start to peek through. Heavier toppings more commonly found in aromatics can experience more dramatic fade, especially with cheaper ingredients. But you should not encounter this too much with still-sealed tins. It is more of a bulk cellaring issue. Although, FWIW, I have some long-cellared Boswell aromatics that have actually improved with time. My trick has been to hard-pack them in the jars with a minimum of retained air before sealing. The toppings in those, which are of very high quality, remain as strong as in a new batch.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Where it gets more complicated is with toppings. Some toppings can degrade and fade over time. For some, this can be a welcome change, as more of the natural tobacco flavor can start to peek through. Heavier toppings more commonly found in aromatics can experience more dramatic fade, especially with cheaper ingredients. But you should not encounter this too much with still-sealed tins.

Cavendish aromatics are something I'm not squirrelling away long term, as I've heard they can turn to mush. I do have some "dry" Cavendish stashed though, such as Dark Fragrant and Marlin Flake, which I'm reasonably confident about. The aromatics I do have stashed are the likes of University Flake, Firedance, and of course, a couple of Lakelands. That would put them in the same grouping as that Reinier blend you mentioned. I wonder if with those, it is the toppings actually fading, or the base tobaccos waking up and shining through more? There is a tin of Erinmore Flake lurking in there though, so that might be a little more time sensitive.

Interesting what you say about jars/bulk being more sensitive than tins on the heavier toppings. That might be the first time I've read that! Bulk and pouched tobaccos here, are essentially the same priced as tinned, so I'm only cellaring tobaccos that come already prepared for a long nap. It actually works out cheaper, as you don't have the added jar cost.

I do want to use some of the mellowing properties in my favour. I have a couple of English blends in there, which I think are Nightcap ripoffs. I bought them before I made the mental connection though, as Nightcap was one of the samples I hated. I'm hoping that the long nap turns them into something my palatte will appreciate, but if it's still too heavy, I'll dilute it down with one of the plain Virginias.

As to the clock ticking once the tin is cracked, everything here will be smoked within a few months. I plan on stuffing half the tin in a 120ml/4oz jar to keep fresh, while I slowly work my way through the first half. I'm hoping that will be enough to avert any calamities

 

[Columbo]

Cavendish aromatics are something I'm not squirrelling away long term, as I've heard they can turn to mush. I do have some "dry" Cavendish stashed though, such as Dark Fragrant and Marlin Flake, which I'm reasonably confident about. The aromatics I do have stashed are the likes of University Flake, Firedance, and of course, a couple of Lakelands. That would put them in the same grouping as that Reinier blend you mentioned. I wonder if with those, it is the toppings actually fading, or the base tobaccos waking up and shining through more? There is a tin of Erinmore Flake lurking in there though, so that might be a little more time sensitive.

Interesting what you say about jars/bulk being more sensitive than tins on the heavier toppings. That might be the first time I've read that! Bulk and pouched tobaccos here, are essentially the same priced as tinned, so I'm only cellaring tobaccos that come already prepared for a long nap. It actually works out cheaper, as you don't have the added jar cost.

I do want to use some of the mellowing properties in my favour. I have a couple of English blends in there, which I think are Nightcap ripoffs. I bought them before I made the mental connection though, as Nightcap was one of the samples I hated. I'm hoping that the long nap turns them into something my palatte will appreciate, but if it's still too heavy, I'll dilute it down with one of the plain Virginias.

As to the clock ticking once the tin is cracked, everything here will be smoked within a few months. I plan on stuffing half the tin in a 120ml/4oz jar to keep fresh, while I slowly work my way through the first half. I'm hoping that will be enough to avert any calamities

Tobacco is an organic commodity. Once you expose any organic substance to oxygen, various processes start to unfold. Besides the microbiotic changes, some elements are subject to oxidation and chemical degradation. So with traditional manual cellaring techniques such as jarring, how much air you are leaving in the container can become a factor, for good or for bad, depending on the ingredients. Factory sealing places a control on that factor; the manufacturer has done the cellaring work for you. Of course, you pay a little more for that privilege. But if you can afford it, there’s nothing wrong with going that route. Mason jars are not without cost.

Cheap cavendish is nearly mush when fresh. So having it turn completely so in storage is fairly common. But not all cavindishes are cheap, or cased and processed to the edge of breakdown. I have a 25+ year old jar of straight black cavendish that still looks, feels and smokes fine. I don’t smoke those things anymore, but can’t bring myself to discard still smokable tobacco. I may give it to my son now that you reminded me of it.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Cheap cavendish is nearly mush when fresh. So having it turn completely so in storage is fairly common. But not all cavindishes are cheap, or cased and processed to the edge of breakdown. I have a 25+ year old jar of straight black cavendish that still looks, feels and smokes fine.

I (thankfully) haven't had any of the truly awful stuff. The Cavendish aromatics I've smoked are of Gawith/Peterson/MacBaren calibre, so even if the topping overwhelms the flavour of tobacco (e.g. MacBaren Cube), it's still been of decent quality, and not felt like somethink you could caulk a wooden boat with.

As to untopped, I have some Germain's Royal Jersey Cavendish and Virginia that I'm working through, and really enjoy it. It's got both the juniper/gin type perfumey aspect, and the old library fustiness, (both in a good way, I hasten to add) that I get from untopped Cavendish, but the brighter lift from the Virginias. I have to be in the right mood for it though, and couldn't smoke it all the time.

 

[Cracker]

In my experience modern aromatics turn pretty bad over time. Seems those have actually a shelf life.
Englishes for me shouldn't be too fresh but they also are just ok for a storage of a year maybe two or so, after that I find them more blunt and less interesting, because they loose IMHO their complexity and character.
Virginia based blends, and light "old school" aromatics like MB's Scottish Mixture age very well, with one exception for me: MB's Virginia No. 1 which I prefer as fresh as possible.

 

[RazorbackFan]

My jarred Gawith Hoggarth essenced blends have diminished in aroma intensity over time, but they’re in no way spoiled. The base/constituent tobaccos are top notch, it’s just that the signature essence has faded. Maybe it’s oxidation due to oxygen in the jar? It’s happened with Rum Flake, Ennerdale, Kendal Flake, Coniston, and several others.

I’m not complaining, just relaying my experience.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

My jarred Gawith Hoggarth essenced blends have diminished in aroma intensity over time, but they’re in no way spoiled. The base/constituent tobaccos are top notch, it’s just that the signature essence has faded. Maybe it’s oxidation due to oxygen in the jar? It’s happened with Rum Flake, Ennerdale, Kendal Flake, Coniston, and several others.

I’m not complaining, just relaying my experience.

Has the base tobacco on those noticeably improved, and what sort of timescales are we talking about? The Rum Flake sample I tried last year, barely tasted of rum anyway.

 

[RazorbackFan]

Has the base tobacco on those noticeably improved, and what sort of timescales are we talking about? The Rum Flake sample I tried last year, barely tasted of rum anyway.

I’ve only been a pipe enthusiast for two and a half years and I bought these blends early on, so I don’t really have a lot of experience here.

But the tobaccos have certainly darkened, and have crystallized considerably (as most of my SG/GH blends have).

Most of my GH blends are Virginia dominant, with Burley strongly supporting. Hopefully they will age with grace, as I went fairly deep on them early on, back when they were readily available.

 

[Columbo]

Has the base tobacco on those noticeably improved, and what sort of timescales are we talking about? The Rum Flake sample I tried last year, barely tasted of rum anyway.

You may be speaking of different features here. Aroma is generally more associated with tin and room notes. The latter can have a more tangential (but relevant) impact on flavor. Our noses do contribute to our tastes.

But how the tobacco tastes to the smoker is a severable feature. A nice English can taste great, but the room note may not offer the same joy to bystanders, as many a wife will attest.

For me, the room note is for others. My nose is too busy helping my taste buds.

 

[Columbo]

I’ve only been a pipe enthusiast for two and a half years and I bought these blends early on, so I don’t really have a lot of experience here.

But the tobaccos have certainly darkened, and have crystallized considerably (as most of my SG/GH blends have).

Most of my GH blends are Virginia dominant, with Burley strongly supporting. Hopefully they will age with grace, as I went fairly deep on them early on, back when they were readily available.

My experience is that most VaBurs tend to age well, provided the blender was competent. The above LGF is such a blend, and the VA matures wonderfully in it.

In the case of your SG, you should be fine (I can’t speak to GH as I’ve not cellared enough of it).

 

[RookieGuy]

It seems to be the biggest deciding factor is the quality of leaf, followed by quality of flavoring. It really sounds like if it was good tobacco to start, at the very worst proper aging won't harm anything.

 

[Columbo]

It seems to be the biggest deciding factor is the quality of leaf, followed by quality of flavoring. It really sounds like if it was good tobacco to start, at the very worst proper aging won't harm anything.

There is inherent truth here.

Generally, a blender that has invested in premium grade leaf is not going to case or top it with cheap bilge water, or a lot of anything for that matter. In my opinion, a great base tobacco should be left to stand alone on all fours, as much as possible. And the best blenders seem to follow that.

Lower quality toppings tend to be used to prop up lower grade leaf that would otherwise stand mediocre by itself. A sea of A1 on a cube steak.

Other processing methods can play a part, such as pressing times and hot pressing to create better marriages. But great leaf is great leaf, the same as a filet minion is not cube steak.

 

[DC_MPA]

I’ve yet to have a tobacco that hasn’t held well with age. I’ve got some Sutliff Z50 Black Cordial that’s 8 years old and is heavenly. Same for a few ounces of BCA.

One thing to note, I bought some Ball mason jars last weekend and noticed a bold print on the box that said “keeps things fresh for 18 months”

I don’t recall seeing that before.

 

[Columbo]

One thing to note, I bought some Ball mason jars last weekend and noticed a bold print on the box that said “keeps things fresh for 18 months”

I don’t recall seeing that before.

Dollars to donuts, lawyers.

 

[Whisky]

One thing to note, I bought some Ball mason jars last weekend and noticed a bold print on the box that said “keeps things fresh for 18 months”

I think that’s how long they guarantee the seals for actual canned food, as in a boiling water bath for 10-15min. I’ve got stuff I canned 5-6yrs ago and can’t tell the difference when we eat it.

 

[DC_MPA]

I think that’s how long they guarantee the seals for actual canned food, as in a boiling water bath for 10-15min. I’ve got stuff I canned 5-6yrs ago and can’t tell the difference when we eat it.

Oh ok, so it isn't anything new. For some reason, I don't recall ever seeing it. My stuff has held for 6 years without any issue so I wasn't too concerned. It just seemed weird to read the box notice it saying that.

 

[DC_MPA]

Dollars to donuts, lawyers.

Haha - I thought the same thing. I said to myself "great, someone got lawsuit happy because grandma's salsa wasn't any good 5 years later...."