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To Saponificio Varesino: "Your Majesty, please accept my apologies"

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
SV is an indulgence to be sure, but in the grand scheme of indulgences chronicled on these pages, it may not be a huge one for many.

I think that may be the underlying problem for me. It didn't feel like an indulgence.

The shaves I get from those lower priced soaps I listed, are so good, that this particular soap just feels like the same thing with a higher price tag. Higher cost with same outcome, equals less value for money. It's not a bad soap, I can just get the same feeling of luxury, performance and post shave at lower cost elsewhere.
 

Marco

B&B's Man in Italy
@Marco , after you presented us with great and cheap soaps like Mogno, Musgo, La Toja, Haslinger, LEA, are you really willing to pay 5-7 times more money just for the smell? What does SV have and Musgo doesn't have, for example?

Alin, as my friend John @JCinPA has properly pointed out in another thread, I am only interested in performance. And performance-wise Saponificio Varesino is at the very top of my list. There are certainly many great soaps out there, but for me nothing else is at this absolutely terrific level. I'll always keep SV in my den, along with my other favourite.
 
Thanks @Marco
that's what I wanted to know. If you say it's the first in your list, then it's probably worth the money. I'm not good at expensive soaps. For me, I still haven't invented soap that I don't like! I have no problems with smell or other finesse. I have a thick cheek and I get good results even with Protex hand soap (tallow) or hair conditioner. Musgo or Mogno are great for me. I don't give a lot of money for a soap that in 10 minutes reaches 99% of it in the sewer anyway.
 

Marco

B&B's Man in Italy
Thanks @Marco
that's what I wanted to know. If you say it's the first in your list, then it's probably worth the money. I'm not good at expensive soaps. For me, I still haven't invented soap that I don't like! I have no problems with smell or other finesse. I have a thick cheek and I get good results even with Protex hand soap (tallow) or hair conditioner. Musgo or Mogno are great for me. I don't give a lot of money for a soap that in 10 minutes reaches 99% of it in the sewer anyway.

Dear Alin, I'm always at your total disposal for any clarification. Please, feel free to contact me anytime, my friend. :001_smile
 
What does SV have and Musgo doesn't have, for example?

A long list of 37 ingredients? :laugh:

Ingredients: Sodium Cocoate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Sodium Rapeseedate, Sodium Sunflower Seedate, Aqua/Water/Eau, Balanites Roxburghii (Desert Date) seed oil, Fraxinus Ornus (Manna Ash) Sap Extract, Erythritol, Coco Glucoside, Glyceryl Oleate, Ricinus Communis Oil, Galactoarabinan, Sucrose Cocoate, Shorea Stenoptera Seed Butter, Parfum/Fragrance, Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Copernica Cerifera Cera, Macadamia Ternifolia Seed Oil, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Oryza Sativa (Rice) Starch, Xanthan Gum, Glycerin, Stearic Acid, Sodium Chloride, Tocopheryl Acetate, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil, Sodium Gluconate, Citric Acid Alpha Isomethyl Ionone, Citral, Citronellol, Geraniol, Hexyl Cinnamal, Hydroxycitronellal, Limonene.

Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, aka "Baby Foam", is a synthetic anionic surfactant and foaming agent often used in shampoo bars and bath bombs. This may be one of the ingredients that makes people feel "the lather explodes off the brush".

Coco Glucoside is a non-ionic surfactant often seen in shampoos.

Glyceryl Oleate is a synthetic moisturizer and skin conditioner.

The variety of skin conditioning ingredients seems rather redundant, though it certainly looks impressive, the quantities of each are quite small.
Desert Date Oil
Castor Oil
Illipe Butter
Hydrogenated Castor Oil
Carnauba Wax
Macadamia Nut Butter
Shea Butter
Sweet Almond Oil
Grapeseed Oil

My take on this soap is you have a long list of "exotic", "natural" ingredients designed to sound impressive and differentiate this soap from the more "common" ones, while also containing several synthetic ingredients that actually make a difference in how the soap feels and performs. "Trigger" ingredients, like EDTA that might put people off are avoided, replaced by less familiar equivalents.
 
Thanks @Atlantic59 ,
as I said above, it doesn't really matter to me. It may also contain star powder, in the end only the result matters. If I can get the same result with soaps 7 times cheaper, it's hard to convince me to spend my money on SV constantly.

ps. where did they pile up so many components? Some have tiny amounts and it doesn't matter if they throw dust in our eyes. Who checks if what is written there is real?
 
I am sure this soap has an outstanding performance and a ton of character. It is an Italian product after all.
Certainly worth the money. This is not a question in my mind. Just outside my shaving budget and, if this would not be an issue for me, once the money get allocated where I desire, this will be my first purchase. Until then, just kicking tires here. :biggrin1:
 
SV soaps are excellent, since I started using them earlier this year it has been difficult to stop wanting to try them all.

I have great sucess with 4.0, 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3 soaps. The older versions just need more water.
 
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"Trigger" ingredients, like EDTA that might put people off are avoided

Interesting point about EDTA. You might know the answer to this, so I'll ask: I've long been under the impression that EDTA added to shaving soap can be effective at mitigating potential problems with lathering in hard water. From that standpoint, I've considered it a relatively favourable ingredient (at least for those of us with hard water). Is there any truth to this? And any countervailing reasons it wouldn't be desirable?
 

jackgoldman123

Boring and predictable
Alin, as my friend John @JCinPA has properly pointed out in another thread, I am only interested in performance. And performance-wise Saponificio Varesino is at the very top of my list. There are certainly many great soaps out there, but for me nothing else is at this absolutely terrific level. I'll always keep SV in my den, along with my other favourite.
+1
just shaved with SV Vetiver - superb performance indeed. Instantly in my permanent rotation. Also ain't too bad with SV 70th anniversary aftershave.
 
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Interesting point about EDTA. You might know the answer to this, so I'll ask: I've long been under the impression that EDTA added to shaving soap can be effective at mitigating potential problems with lathering in hard water. From that standpoint, I've considered it a relatively favourable ingredient (at least for those of us with hard water). Is there any truth to this? And any countervailing reasons it wouldn't be desirable?
Well, EDTA has many uses. It can be a chelating agent to reduce water hardness and also a preservative in cosmetics. It is allowed as a food preservative. There are some medical applications, also. Regulators have determined it is safe in the concentrations used in cosmetics, foods and medicines.

However, some people consider this a "scary" ingredient because they read somewhere or heard someone say it might be dangerous. Some people make claims of reproductive toxicity or even carcinogenic effects. Supposedly, it acts as a "penetration enhancer" to allow other chemicals to penetrate the skin and enter the body. Also, it is often made from nasty chemicals like formaldehyde and sodium cyanide. But then, so are many other chemicals and materials we use every day, and don't think twice about it.

OOOH-SCARY!! 😱 😅
 
Well, EDTA has many uses. It can be a chelating agent to reduce water hardness and also a preservative in cosmetics. It is allowed as a food preservative. There are some medical applications, also. Regulators have determined it is safe in the concentrations used in cosmetics, foods and medicines.

However, some people consider this a "scary" ingredient because they read somewhere or heard someone say it might be dangerous. Some people make claims of reproductive toxicity or even carcinogenic effects. Supposedly, it acts as a "penetration enhancer" to allow other chemicals to penetrate the skin and enter the body. Also, it is often made from nasty chemicals like formaldehyde and sodium cyanide. But then, so are many other chemicals and materials we use every day, and don't think twice about it.

OOOH-SCARY!! 😱 😅

Thanks! Ended up doing a quick search on the topic myself and yeah I agree, the concentrations you'd be exposed to in shaving soap are likely *well* within safe limits. In case anyone else is interested, here's a reliable source reviewing the relevant toxicology findings. EDTA skeptics out there might be a good (if mostly benign) illustration of how a little knowledge can sometimes be a dangerous thing.
 

Marco

B&B's Man in Italy
@Marco, I hope you have not fallen out of love with your other soaps now. :closedeye

Absolutely NO, my dear friend. As I've already declared above, I'm only interested in performance. And it's a happy coincidence that, with the sole exception of SV, all my other favourite soaps are dirt cheap.

So far, the brands that have deserved a permanent spot in my den are:

- Saponificio Varesino
- La Toja
- Cella
- Pre de Provence
- Haslinger
- Ach. Brito

Too sad that the outstanding La Toja Manantiales and Klar Kabinett (the finest rose scented soap I've encountered to date) are no longer produced. :sad:
 
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My friends, I've just placed an order for a back-up puck of Desert Vetiver Beta 4.3. I simply love it too much... :001_wub:
Marco, When comparing Desert Vetiver Beta 4.3 to any of the other SV 4.3 soaps, is there a difference in performance to elevate it to your #1?
 

Raven Koenes

My precious!
I love Proraso Super Formula and LEA. They work as fine as any soap. I also like artisan soft soaps. SV has a ten second load time that creates enough lather for more passes then you'd ever need. The scents are sublime, and the post shave feel is superb. It's triple milled and doesn't get eaten up quickly like artisan soft soaps. You can equal it on performance, but you can't beat it.
 

shavefan

I’m not a fan
I have been an advocate for SV 4.3 soaps for a long time. I also have many soaps that range in price from $6 (Speick) to $70 (SMN). There are many, many, great performing shave soaps available at price points suitable to all budgets, but SV 4.3 is just so well rounded, it remains amongst the top in my den.

Luckily for me the learning curve of lathering SV was inconsequential. In my experience, the only shave soap that lathers easier is MdC.
 

shavefan

I’m not a fan
Marco, When comparing Desert Vetiver Beta 4.3 to any of the other SV 4.3 soaps, is there a difference in performance to elevate it to your #1?

I'll chime in. . .

While the base formula is consistent with all SV 4.3 soaps, there are specific ingredients for each type that may slightly affect performance of each one. The differences however are very minor.
 
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