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To Burnish or not to Burnish...

Okay- SO, I am investigating the world of natural stones and am interested in domestic stones for now, I’ll play around with the global offerings down the road but for now I’m interested in black & translucent Arkansas pieces. It’s already confusing because the grit thing goes out the window and you go in terms of density. I don’t care about grit and density for now, suffice it to say I want them as dense as possible 😂

My REAL question is I see posts and videos about burnishing these stones. I know a stone must be lapped. Burnishing is a new word in my vocabulary and I confess to not fully understanding the word in its full breadth and depth among the realm of possibilities.

All this being said, the most light I’ve seen shown comes from these forums:

“Arkansas stones will "wear in" or burnish with normal use. They are more aggressive and not as fine when new or freshly lapped. So just the process of rubbing steel on them will accomplish the thing.”

So I know I need to lap it if it needs it- probably lap it for good measure and remove my corners, etc. I now know it will burnish with normal use. Define normal use? Frequency? How often is normal use? See where I’m going? I now know they are more aggressive and not as fine when new or freshly lapped. So just the process of rubbing steel accomplishes the burnishing.

This is the most light I’ve seen shown on this topic and I apologize for resurrecting a zombie for the seasoned honing vets out there- but after reading that, I still don’t know if I need to burnish the stone or not- or just let the process happen naturally and that’s fine too. Do ya burnish after lapping or just let it ride is essentially my question. These are hard stones and I have a feeling it would take quite a bit of shaving and touching up to burnish a quality Arkansas. I’ve never owned one, I’m just guessing.

So: do you burnish after lapping once you get it? Do you let it burnish as you use it? I know it’s a matter of choice, but my life span and geology are on different schedules so if letting it burnish with use is reasonable, I suppose that would be viable- I could sharpen kitchen knives with it to speed up the process- I just never knew if it was always necessary or what. Thanks for any input.

The two shops on my radar are Dan’s & the Whetstone company. That’s all I know of because it’s pretty much all I see in the forums- I’m looking for quality and willing to pay the price for quality.

For lapping, I’ve considered the following progression assuming lapping is an automatic necessity for these

46# Aluminum Oxide
150# Silicone Carbide
400# Silicone Carbide

Thanks in advance for any advice- I know very little about this and have done a lot of digging before deciding to post a thread- so I apologize if I’ve dug up a horse only to beat it once more. Cheers!
 
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Where are you purchasing your stone from? If you are buying from Dan's or Natural Whetstone co. you can speak with them and they'll find you a nice flat stone.

A good number of people have said that Dan's come flat enough to finish on right out of the box

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 
Where are you purchasing your stone from? If you are buying from Dan's or Natural Whetstone co. you can speak with them and they'll find you a nice flat stone.

A good number of people have said that Dan's come flat enough to finish on right out of the box

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

But, to burnish or not to burnish- that is the question- I suppose what I’m wondering is the criteria for deciding to burnish for the purpose of razors-

Getting a flat one would be very nice indeed- One doesn’t need to round off the corners?
 
I did nothing to mine but use one side. It will flat out put a finished edge like no other.

Rare
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Did you round off your edges and corners or leave them?
 
But, to burnish or not to burnish- that is the question- I suppose what I’m wondering is the criteria for deciding to burnish for the purpose of razors-

Getting a flat one would be very nice indeed- One doesn’t need to round off the corners?
I do not know anything about rounding corners, but I dont think that would change the sharpening on a razor.

There is a post on this forum earlier that I read talking about burnishing. The consensus returned saying it's a lot of effort for a minimal improvement (if any) compared to lapping with 600 SIC

YMMV though
 
I do not know anything about rounding corners, but I dont think that would change the sharpening on a razor.

There is a post on this forum earlier that I read talking about burnishing. The consensus returned saying it's a lot of effort for a minimal improvement (if any) compared to lapping with 600 SIC

YMMV though

THAT’S what I needed to know- so on the whole, relatively speaking, burnishing is not a necessity BUT would vary / depend on whether an individual stone would need it / benefit from burnishing. The light just came on. THANK YOU!!!!
👍👍👍
 
You probably should decide that for yourself with some trial and error. You can burnish and you can undo it. Or you can burnish one side of your stone and not the other. Really not a big deal. Best to decide that for yourself.

Burnish or not, finish or surface prep can have a lot of effect on results. Even for us non-burnishers, just by use it becomes burnished and that can be roughed back up from time to time.

Don’t over think it and don’t rely on internet opinions. Just try it yourself and you will see if it is for you or not.
 
I do not know anything about rounding corners, but I dont think that would change the sharpening on a razor.

There is a post on this forum earlier that I read talking about burnishing. The consensus returned saying it's a lot of effort for a minimal improvement (if any) compared to lapping with 600 SIC

YMMV though

Now would you just lap it with 600SIC & call her good or use a progression to 600?
 
You probably should decide that for yourself with some trial and error. You can burnish and you can undo it. Or you can burnish one side of your stone and not the other. Really not a big deal. Best to decide that for yourself.

Burnish or not, finish or surface prep can have a lot of effect on results. Even for us non-burnishers, just by use it becomes burnished and that can be roughed back up from time to time.

Don’t over think it and don’t rely on internet opinions. Just try it yourself and you will see if it is for you or not.

I’m essentially trying to gauge to see if it’s necessary- I see videos about burnishing and the marginal benefits that come by it- I’m new to the whole realm of natural stones so I’m considering all of these things for the first time- not really over thinking- just trying to determine the difference between the wheat and the chaff in terms of info / opinions- at a minimum, you’d lap it I’m assuming- I’d go from there and play with it as I go. I was trying to figure out if it was one of those essential things one “just does” & I didn’t know about it. I appreciate the input, great information! Thank you!
 
i did not like my blue ark burnished. it was super slow. i finish my ark @ 600+ basically exhaust the 600 SiC loose grit. which i have been observing is the latest trend in ark finishing, you wont need 46 grit unless yiu have to remove saw marks or move alot of stone. i double check chamfer on stones, you dont want to catch an edge. i have finished @1000 or 1200 AlOx but even that was too smooth.and burnishing even slower. depending on how flat your stone is to start you may only need limited range of grits to finish stone. once stone is flat it is pretty quick to change stones surface. 5- 10 minutes. i would get at minimum220, 400, 600 SiC. i use a granite sink cut out, or 12x24 granite tile, both checked with precision straight edge and check stone with same precision straight edge
 

duke762

Rose to the occasion
I have shelf queens that have one side "burnished", just for looks. Actually they are not "burnished", just lapped to a really high grit. When I started looking at razor forums, I was drawn to the pretty Arks some folks were carefully "burnishing". Lord I hate that word! It has no place in conversations on abrasive hones.

But I proceeded to "burnish" my Arks. I have quite a few, spent a lot of time "burnishing".

Let's talk terminology for a second.

Lapping- A necessary thing to do to Arks and other hones to flatten them. Loose grit, flat as possible.

Dressing- A necessary thing to do to Ark's and other hone to get a supreme, final flatness and to dress the surface of the hone to the desired surface condition for optimal honing. Fixed grit is required at this level. Usually W/D sand paper.


Burnishing- Working the surface of the hone fairly aggressively with a piece of steel, knife, meat cleaver, paint scraper,
etc. to condition the surface of the stone to be finer or "burnish" the edge of the blade. I read one post
where the poster claimed that loading the stone with steel was desirable and then he could "burnish" his
edge.

There are no stones at all, natural or synthetic that benefit from "burnishing". Stones are designed to cut, remove steel. there is no "burnishing" going on. All fixed abrasive media works this way. How the "burnishing" thing got started, I don't know. Some have the ability to cut finer than others but none benefit from "burnishing". I fell victim to the pretty hone thing and "burnished" all my Ark's. Go for it if you want to. I did, I know you want to. Easy change.

But I ended up at 600 grit W/D and things changed for the better and they get redressed, the minute they start to "burnish" , glaze, or start to get shiny. Lap to a high grit, dress to a high grit but I will never accept "burnishing" as a feasible method for prepping the surface of any hone. My 2 cents.
 
I have shelf queens that have one side "burnished", just for looks. Actually they are not "burnished", just lapped to a really high grit. When I started looking at razor forums, I was drawn to the pretty Arks some folks were carefully "burnishing". Lord I hate that word! It has no place in conversations on abrasive hones.

But I proceeded to "burnish" my Arks. I have quite a few, spent a lot of time "burnishing".

Let's talk terminology for a second.

Lapping- A necessary thing to do to Arks and other hones to flatten them. Loose grit, flat as possible.

Dressing- A necessary thing to do to Ark's and other hone to get a supreme, final flatness and to dress the surface of the hone to the desired surface condition for optimal honing. Fixed grit is required at this level. Usually W/D sand paper.


Burnishing- Working the surface of the hone fairly aggressively with a piece of steel, knife, meat cleaver, paint scraper,
etc. to condition the surface of the stone to be finer or "burnish" the edge of the blade. I read one post
where the poster claimed that loading the stone with steel was desirable and then he could "burnish" his
edge.

There are no stones at all, natural or synthetic that benefit from "burnishing". Stones are designed to cut, remove steel. there is no "burnishing" going on. All fixed abrasive media works this way. How the "burnishing" thing got started, I don't know. Some have the ability to cut finer than others but none benefit from "burnishing". I fell victim to the pretty hone thing and "burnished" all my Ark's. Go for it if you want to. I did, I know you want to. Easy change.

But I ended up at 600 grit W/D and things changed for the better and they get redressed, the minute they start to "burnish" , glaze, or start to get shiny. Lap to a high grit, dress to a high grit but I will never accept "burnishing" as a feasible method for prepping the surface of any hone. My 2 cents.

I’ve got to tip my hat- THAT was an education right there- THANK YOU for your nickel’s worth of $0.02c
You nailed it with the terms, I see them frequently and loosely and sometimes it’s hard to establish (being new at this) whether it’s even a necessity. It gave me a sinking feeling knowing I’d be paying $220 + shipping for a thing of beauty only to tear into it and beat the dog poo out of it.

I was just talking to my wife today- she asked about what all I’m learning about in my covid lockdown and I tell her- she and I both took anthropology in college- and Homo Habilis came up. The “handy man” hominid- the hominid known for developing and using tools and she said, do you think Homo Habilis would’ve been this fussy? I said, hell yeah, he’d find the perfect rocks for knives, axes, hammers, flint knapping, and for serrated edges he’d likely use an antler to use to file- smart enough to know he’d need something softer- My wife said, yeah, but do you think he collected them? I said, that would depend on whether he stayed in one place and had acquisition disorder. She said,” it turns out in this case Habilis was smarter than you are (me) and maybe keep things simple when it comes to rocks and stones and just do what feels natural”. My wife ladies & gents! 🤣😂🤣

Here I am pre-empting the avoidance of abuse to an ark I haven’t bought yet & the lady gets it. I got schooled by the wife AND “Oogah-Booga”! Your comment along with the conversation with my wife just kinda makes everything all the clearer. Thank you for that insight, I hate spending money not knowing what to do with the thing I’m spending money on......😂🤣😂
 
Please educate me. As an engineer, I understand what burnishing in metal is all about. What is burnishing of a whetstone?
By definition, I would imagine the same- polishing by rubbing- I’d imagine the soft leather strop on my shaving strop has shiny streaks from stroking the blade up and down- it has been polished to a shine instead of its original matte coloration because of rubbing. I supposed I could say that soft leather portion is burnished in some places. I’ve learned a new word though so I suppose “polish by rubbing” could be my strop, a stone, or even my wood floor-
 
when I had. A burnished ark, I felt that what it did to a bevel was burnish not cut.... I did not have decent magnification at the time. But have heard similar discussions that state the same.
 

Rosseforp

I think this fits, Gents
I’ve got to tip my hat- THAT was an education right there- THANK YOU for your nickel’s worth of $0.02c
You nailed it with the terms, I see them frequently and loosely and sometimes it’s hard to establish (being new at this) whether it’s even a necessity. It gave me a sinking feeling knowing I’d be paying $220 + shipping for a thing of beauty only to tear into it and beat the dog poo out of it.
Instead of relying on just information on the internet, I emailed several of the manufacturers asking for their advice. I let them know that I was going to be using the stones for honing razors, that I was a hobbyist, and gave them my budget.
Dan's was the first to respond and offered the most informative advice. Kim from Dan's told me that the stones can be used as received, only needing to flat lapped with wet/dry 220 grit sandpaper to freshen up the surface when needed.
The three stones that I ordered should be arriving tomorrow and I will let you guys know how they look!
 
Burnishing when referring to a stone seems to mean Wearing down or rounding off the abrasives in the surface, Or the surface itself in the case of Novaculite. This is done to make the stone cut less aggressively and slower. On particularly coarse/fast Coticule that are hard enough to not auto slurry, I’ve noticed it can be beneficial to get a shaving Edge... but as a general rule I don’t feel that it tends to be a positive. Clogging up an oil stone so that it cuts finer while technically it may Sometimes work is never a good idea. Just buy a finer stone
 
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Instead of relying on just information on the internet, I emailed several of the manufacturers asking for their advice.


Normally a good method to ask the manufacturer than the “internet wisdom”, but in this case I will say the question needs to be answered by folks who use them specifically with straight razors. General sharpening advice (knives tools etc) does not all apply to razors.

But I’m not a burnisher. Not intentionally anyway......but we all burnish by using the stones obviously. So it happens naturally over time and if you don’t prefer that surface texture (me), then all you have to do is give a quick lap and you are good. I like a finer surface than most here and like around 1000-1200 WD final. But I find it burnishes quicker and need to refinish more often than if I stopped at 300-600.

Lapping Arks can take some effort. But finishing the surface of good flat stone takes very little time at all. So I say instead of asking, just go try it and see. Spend a minute and burnish then hone. Then rough it back up and hone. See what you like and what works for you.
 

Rosseforp

I think this fits, Gents
Normally a good method to ask the manufacturer than the “internet wisdom”, but in this case I will say the question needs to be answered by folks who use them specifically with straight razors. General sharpening advice (knives tools etc) does not all apply to razors.
More than providing sharpening advice, very specific information was provided on how arkansas stones are graded according to density, at the quarry. That alone cleared up a lot of confusion about what stones to order, and saved me money also!
 
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